EBI13- Lightweights

leaf22

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New EBI is on tomoro, anyone got any thoughts/ predictions? Far as I can tell, Tonon runs through everyone, makes some easy money. Anyone think different?
 
Tonen is the favorite, but you never know. Rocha just beat him at ADCC, so he might be able to do it again. The EBI rules favor Tonen, but I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of people have been training to neutralize Tonen's game. Recently he hasn't been killing people like he was last year, so I wouldn't be surprised to see an upset.
 
Tonen is the favorite, but you never know. Rocha just beat him at ADCC, so he might be able to do it again. The EBI rules favor Tonen, but I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of people have been training to neutralize Tonen's game. Recently he hasn't been killing people like he was last year, so I wouldn't be surprised to see an upset.
Yeah, the gaps definitely narrowing between the DDS and the rest of the sub only guys, still think it's gonna be a bridge too far tho. Rocha might give him a run, but bill cooper gets heel hooked pretty quick I reckon, and there's nobody else in there that I even reckognise
 
Tonon wins and I guess Martinez wins the Combat
 
Fun card

These days EBI is my favorite event

CJJ should be dope in two weeks
 
Yeah, the gaps definitely narrowing between the DDS and the rest of the sub only guys, still think it's gonna be a bridge too far tho. Rocha might give him a run, but bill cooper gets heel hooked pretty quick I reckon, and there's nobody else in there that I even reckognise
Everyone else is getting better at leg locks for sure but watching Tonon last night made me realize just how far ahead they still are though. Tonon got a nice kimura to triangle armbar, but besides that he got 3 inside heel hooks from the 4-11/honeyhole/saddle/inside sankaku. Whatever the fuck you call it.

His control from there was just leagues above what other people are doing. It's high percentage if anyone gets that position with a decent understanding of it. You'll finish at least 75% I think. I think for no-gi sub only that position is almost as good as having the back if you know what to do with it. When Tonon/Gordon/Cummings and them get it I think it's fucking close to 100% a done deal.

They are getting into it smoothly in some ways that others aren't also.
 
Everyone else is getting better at leg locks for sure but watching Tonon last night made me realize just how far ahead they still are though. Tonon got a nice kimura to triangle armbar, but besides that he got 3 inside heel hooks from the 4-11/honeyhole/saddle/inside sankaku. Whatever the fuck you call it.

His control from there was just leagues above what other people are doing. It's high percentage if anyone gets that position with a decent understanding of it. You'll finish at least 75% I think. I think for no-gi sub only that position is almost as good as having the back if you know what to do with it. When Tonon/Gordon/Cummings and them get it I think it's fucking close to 100% a done deal.

They are getting into it smoothly in some ways that others aren't also.

I couldn't watch the show, some highlights, it's not that they are just ahead in the execution of the moves but also defending them, it's not weird they get caught first in such positions, but they seem to know exactly how to get out, then comes the scramble or counter attack, done deal... It's simple amazing
 
I couldn't watch the show, some highlights, it's not that they are just ahead in the execution of the moves but also defending them, it's not weird they get caught first in such positions, but they seem to know exactly how to get out, then comes the scramble or counter attack, done deal... It's simple amazing
Good point. Yeah Garry;s first match put him in some 4-11s and Garry looked about as nervous as he would be making a salad. On the finish he got right out of the 4-11 and took his own and finished right away.

All of Garry's match endings if anyone wants to see:




 
Good point. Yeah Garry;s first match put him in some 4-11s and Garry looked about as nervous as he would be making a salad. On the finish he got right out of the 4-11 and took his own and finished right away.

All of Garry's match endings if anyone wants to see:






Tx bro!
 
"CJJ is a sport for aspiring mma fighters. It’s a way to get your feet wet before having to run the risk of getting ko’d with a head kick. It’s a style of Jiu Jitsu that will prepare you better for mma than any other style. It’s not mma but it’s definitely not Subonly either. CJJ will force your Jiu Jitsu to be mma ready. It will keep your Jiu Jitsu from getting too unrealistic. It will force you to stick to Jiu Jitsu that will translate to the cage. "

- Eddie Bravo on CJJ
 
Everyone else is getting better at leg locks for sure but watching Tonon last night made me realize just how far ahead they still are though. Tonon got a nice kimura to triangle armbar, but besides that he got 3 inside heel hooks from the 4-11/honeyhole/saddle/inside sankaku. Whatever the fuck you call it.

His control from there was just leagues above what other people are doing. It's high percentage if anyone gets that position with a decent understanding of it. You'll finish at least 75% I think. I think for no-gi sub only that position is almost as good as having the back if you know what to do with it. When Tonon/Gordon/Cummings and them get it I think it's fucking close to 100% a done deal.

They are getting into it smoothly in some ways that others aren't also.
The DDS didn’t look too far ahead of everyone at ADCC 2017
 
The DDS didn’t look too far ahead of everyone at ADCC 2017
Reading comprehension is key.

I said that their control from the saddle/4-11 position is leagues ahead of everyone else. You said DDS, not me. I refuse to call them that.

I was talking specifically about that honeyhole/inside sankaku/4-11/saddle or whatever the fuck you call it position. The one where their leg is on the inside and you have an inside leg triangle.
 
Reading comprehension is key.

I said that their control from the saddle/4-11 position is leagues ahead of everyone else. You said DDS, not me. I refuse to call them that.

I was talking specifically about that honeyhole/inside sankaku/4-11/saddle or whatever the fuck you call it position. The one where their leg is on the inside and you have an inside leg triangle.
Damn I'm old. I've been doing this for a long time and I have no idea what any of that honey badger shit is. Probably cause I have bad knees and don't pay any attention to LL and HH. But man people use these positions like RNC or Kimura now. Maybe it's time for this old dog to learn some new tricks
 
The event was pretty good. Tonon looked great. I really want to see the CJJ event coming up but it isn't on fight pass right. Although I'd like to watch I can't justify buying a pay-per-view for it. I wish they just put it on fight pass.

As far as DDS goes, I think they know small details about the positions that give them an edge and on top of that they have other people who are just as good as they are. Steel sharpens steel and Tonon, Cummings and the Ryan brothers all working together sharpens up those positions quite a bit I imagine. I think one of the biggest disadvantages other EBI competitors have is the fact that they don't have training partners as well versed in the leg lock game, so their attacks and defense only rise to a certain level. I think DDS is just 3 or 4 years ahead of other teams in that aspect.
 
Damn I'm old. I've been doing this for a long time and I have no idea what any of that honey badger shit is. Probably cause I have bad knees and don't pay any attention to LL and HH. But man people use these positions like RNC or Kimura now. Maybe it's time for this old dog to learn some new tricks
Man, if you've been training for a long time I remember people calling it a saddle or an inside leg triangle on this forum in 2008 or so. Here's a picture of it. Also I'll say that I really didn't want to learn the leg stuff either. Just wanted to pass and armbar or choke. But it really is pretty fun and it can be done very safely.

maxresdefault.jpg


58d4437f04ee8.jpeg




Garry-Tonon-ADUX0154-2.jpg
 
As far as DDS goes, I think they know small details about the positions that give them an edge and on top of that they have other people who are just as good as they are. Steel sharpens steel and Tonon, Cummings and the Ryan brothers all working together sharpens up those positions quite a bit I imagine. I think one of the biggest disadvantages other EBI competitors have is the fact that they don't have training partners as well versed in the leg lock game, so their attacks and defense only rise to a certain level. I think DDS is just 3 or 4 years ahead of other teams in that aspect.

I never really thought about this. Good point.

I would say that 10th Planet probably has the most knowledge as a team after them about modern leg locking, but IMHO 10p lacks the positional dominance (on average) to be able to implement their stuff against them.

There are some individuals that have super high leg locking IQs. Bill Cooper for example really dove into their system after he lost to Eddie Cummings in the EBI finals but like you hinted at he would count as someone without the training partners to work the stuff against. Honestly I'd say most of the knowledge outside of the Renzo team would be among hobbyists that don't compete at a high level. I certainly think the major IBJJF powerhouse teams don't know as much as the Renzo team right now.

Another side note is that even though there's some highly protected knowledge for the inner circle of the Danaher team, I have trained with a lot of Renzo affiliates on the east coast over the past 3 years and they all have insane leg locks.
 
I never really thought about this. Good point.

I would say that 10th Planet probably has the most knowledge as a team after them about modern leg locking, but IMHO 10p lacks the positional dominance (on average) to be able to implement their stuff against them.

There are some individuals that have super high leg locking IQs. Bill Cooper for example really dove into their system after he lost to Eddie Cummings in the EBI finals but like you hinted at he would count as someone without the training partners to work the stuff against. Honestly I'd say most of the knowledge outside of the Renzo team would be among hobbyists that don't compete at a high level. I certainly think the major IBJJF powerhouse teams don't know as much as the Renzo team right now.

Another side note is that even though there's some highly protected knowledge for the inner circle of the Danaher team, I have trained with a lot of Renzo affiliates on the east coast over the past 3 years and they all have insane leg locks.

You nailed it. "Control" is the big difference between what they do and what everybody else does. Everybody else gets into those positions (including many guys who have reps for being good leglockers) and you see the opponent spinning and turning all over the place, but with DDS guys it's a sub nearly every time. It's the same with their open guard defense-- Danaher/Renzo just teaches certain vital details that all the DDS emulates are not receiving.
 
I certainly think the major IBJJF powerhouse teams don't know as much as the Renzo team right now.

Why would they? The entire position and heel hooks are banned in IBJJF. Gracie Barra knowledge of the saddle is about as useful as their knowledge in ground and pound when doing the IBJJF circuit.
 
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