Evidence of God vs Evidence for no god

[Vitor CroCop]

I got to thinking. I'm an atheist...but if I was presented with enough evidence...say...Jesus himself flying down from heaven on a unicorn...I would probably be open to the idea of there being a god. However...I wonder what kind of evidence it would take for a hardcore "believer" to question the existence of a god. If you are a believer...is there ANY evidence that could be brought forward that could make you question your faith?

No?

Assuming that is the case with every "believer", doesn't it make it pointless then to engage in any debate about creation, god, etc... with them since nothing the scientific community could uncover would ever change their mind. That's sad. I don't want to believe that. I mean...are there any of you out there who believe in god that are at least openminded enough that if xyz evidence came forward...you would start to question it. I got one for you guys....what if we perfected transhumanism/nanotechnology/immortality and lived for another 900 billion years on this planet (assuming the sun never collapsed into a black hole) with no sign of the rapture or Armageddon etc.. Would THAT be enough time for you to start questioning your faith in a god?


EDIT!!!! PLEASE BEFORE ANSWERING REFER TO THURISAZ'S POST ON PAGE 2 FOR A GOOD EXAMPLE OF HOW TO ANSWER IF YOUR ANSWER IS YES. I AM NOT LOOKING FOR A BACK AND FORTH WAR. PLEASE STAY ON TOPIC OR LEAVE.

Edit #2!!! Everyone on this thread is circle jerking about not being able to prove a negative and blah blah blah when all I asked was if there was ANY event/evidence that could make them personally QUESTION the existence of god. Literally, only one person answered my question in this entire fucking thread. Either grow some balls and answer the question or take a hike.

 

[Thurisaz]

Apparently I was wise to not take a flu shot...

 

[JDragon]

We have done this before. The answer is 'none'.

 

[Thurisaz]

Dude, are you dead?

 

[zackryder]

impossible to prove a negative

 

[ZroC]

the answer is so fucking obvious. 8000 billion tomes of scientific data and religious texts and the answer is staring everyone in the face all the time.

 

[sangreporsangre]

 

[threelions]

 

[Vitor CroCop]

We have done this before. The answer is 'none'.

Assuming that is the case with every "believer", doesn't it make it pointless then to engage in any debate about creation, god, etc... with them since nothing the scientific community could uncover would ever change their mind. That's sad. I don't want to believe that. I mean...are there any of you out there who believe in god that are at least openminded enough that if xyz evidence came forward...you would start to question it. I got one for you guys....what if we perfected transhumanism/nanotechnology/immortality and lived for another 900 billion years on this planet (assuming the sun never collapsed into a black hole) with no sign of the rapture or Armageddon etc.. Would THAT be enough time for you to start questioning your faith in a god?

 

[COTUR1@43]

 

[DeJulez]

Assuming that is the case with every "believer", doesn't it make it pointless then to engage in any debate about creation, god, etc... with them since nothing the scientific community could uncover would ever change their mind. That's sad. I don't want to believe that. I mean...are there any of you out there who believe in god that are at least openminded enough that if xyz evidence came forward...you would start to question it. I got one for you guys....what if we perfected transhumanism/nanotechnology/immortality and lived for another 900 billion years on this planet (assuming the sun never collapsed into a black hole) with no sign of the rapture or Armageddon etc.. Would THAT be enough time for you to start questioning your faith in a god?

You know you could get a good look at a T-Bone by sticking your head up a butchers ass but Id rather take the bulls word for it.

 

[Thurisaz]

It appears Voodoo_Child isn't coming back. I declare myself the victor of the argument, successful defender of Pauline Christianity, and the undisputed king of this thread.

 

[Rum]

Evidence, shmevidence. - Ecclesiastes 16:3

 

[Phelly2]

I got to thinking. I'm an atheist...but if I was presented with enough evidence...say...Jesus himself flying down from heaven on a unicorn...I would probably be open to the idea of there being a god. However...I wonder what kind of evidence it would take for a hardcore "believer" to deny the existence of a god. If you are a believer...is there ANY evidence that could be brought forward that could make you question your faith?

There is no null hypothesis that can possibly account for all the variables you can attribute to an unknowable entity with incomprehensible logic.

No matter what evidence you have against god (and there is plenty already), you can easily explain it away by saying, well, god is testing our faith, or it's just not his will that we prove his existence, or whatever whatever whatever.

And yes, that's complete and total BS. It's willful self deception. But that's the nature of religion.

 

[DeJulez]

There is no null hypothesis that can possibly account for all the variables you can attribute to an unknowable entity with incomprehensible logic.

No matter what evidence you have against god (and there is plenty already), you can easily explain it away by saying, well, god is testing our faith, or it's just not his will that we prove his existence, or whatever whatever whatever.

And yes, that's complete and total BS. It's willful self deception. But that's the nature of religion.

What evidence is there against God?

 

[ShinkanPo]

We need to define what is "God" first

 

[Bukowski82]

I have evidence of Harry Potter...

I have the entire collection of books detailing his life.

 

[Phelly2]

Assuming that is the case with every "believer", doesn't it make it pointless then to engage in any debate about creation, god, etc... with them since nothing the scientific community could uncover would ever change their mind. That's sad. I don't want to believe that. I mean...are there any of you out there who believe in god that are at least openminded enough that if xyz evidence came forward...you would start to question it. I got one for you guys....what if we perfected transhumanism/nanotechnology/immortality and lived for another 900 billion years on this planet (assuming the sun never collapsed into a black hole) with no sign of the rapture or Armageddon etc.. Would THAT be enough time for you to start questioning your faith in a god?

It is possible to doubt your religion, BUT you must be in the right place in your life.

There's a reason people goto church every sunday. If your entire social circle is full of people who would condemn you or try to "bring you back to the light" if you question your faith, then, you have a massive incentive not to question it because it would flip your life upside down(people are scared of change).

But if you get away from that environment, it becomes easier. Why do I say this? Because I was raised religious. didn't start doubting until my 20's, didn't really reject the concept of god until age 30 or so.

My wife was also raised very religiously. Almost shot me down for a date because I was atheist. But once she got out of her religious household and actually had some serious discussions/debates on the subject, she slowly rejected her religion and is now an atheist.

It took like 2-3 years, but it happened. For the first year, she would get emotionally disturbed whenever I brought it up. She had like a defense mechanism that made her angry/upset to talk about evidence against god so I would back off. But when she finally started researching it for herself, she would come to me saying, "hey I looked up (x, y, z) on this religious website and their argument was total BS." It was a long process, but nowadays, she'll tell you, she is embarrassed about how closed minded she was about religion her whole life.

 

[Chinballs]

We need to define what is "God" first

Yeap.

I believe in God as the source of creation. Creator of all things, good and bad. I don't believe in satan.

Phelly2: Funny you say that, I was an atheist for most of my life... Changed my view not too many years ago. It had nothing to do with peer pressure though.

 

[Vitor CroCop]

Yeap.

I believe in God as the source of creation. Creator of all things, good and bad. I don't believe in satan.

So is there anything that could hypothetically happen/come forward that would make you question that belief? Just curious.

 

[Thurisaz]

I got to thinking. I'm an atheist...but if I was presented with enough evidence...say...Jesus himself flying down from heaven on a unicorn...I would probably be open to the idea of there being a god.

...and what would make you believe he was Jesus?

If you are a believer...is there ANY evidence that could be brought forward that could make you question your faith?

No?

Yes. For example:
1) The discovery of Jesus Christ’s body.
2) An intact Temple in Jerusalem.
3) The end of war or poverty.
4) The elimination of the Christian Church.
5) Immortality science.
6) A demonstrated ability to avoid Biblical sin.
7) The destruction of the Jewish people.

The important question here is... what amount of evidence would be enough to disprove your atheism? Yes, you gave the example of Jesus on an Unicorn from heaven, but that's not only not proof, it's certainly not the only possible form of evidence. Since there is copious amounts of evidence for the biblical God, I pose the question to see if your standard of evidence for it is consistent with the standard you expect for everything else or do you set an impossible one just for religion for selfish reasons.

 

[Phelly2]

What evidence is there against God?

Why do you ask?

The reason I answer your question with a question is because I've had this conversation 100 times, and it always goes the same. If you're a religious person, you will explain it away to god's unknowable nature, or my lack of understanding of your unique definition of god, and I'll have been suckered into another endless, circular debate.

My evidence against god is not unique or new. I'm sure you've heard it all before. Things like the impossibility of an entity being both all powerful and all knowing. Or the fact that god has never restored an amuptee's limb through prayer, despite claims that he heals all sorts of other illnesses and injuries. God's blatantly evil behavior, based on his own definition of evil. etc etc.

 

[TheComebackKid]

It is possible to doubt your religion, BUT you must be in the right place in your life.

There's a reason people goto church every sunday. If your entire social circle is full of people who would condemn you or try to "bring you back to the light" if you question your faith, then, you have a massive incentive not to question it because it would flip your life upside down(people are scared of change).

But if you get away from that environment, it becomes easier. Why do I say this? Because I was raised religious. didn't start doubting until my 20's, didn't really reject the concept of god until age 30 or so.

My wife was also raised very religiously. Almost shot me down for a date because I was atheist. But once she got out of her religious household and actually had some serious discussions/debates on the subject, she slowly rejected her religion and is now an atheist.

It took like 2-3 years, but it happened. For the first year, she would get emotionally disturbed whenever I brought it up. She had like a defense mechanism that made her angry/upset to talk about evidence against god so I would back off. But when she finally started researching it for herself, she would come to me saying, "hey I looked up (x, y, z) on this religious website and their argument was total BS." It was a long process, but nowadays, she'll tell you, she is embarrassed about how closed minded she was about religion her whole life.

That is depressing

 

[Vitor CroCop]

...and what would make you believe he was Jesus?


Yes. For example:
1) The discovery of Jesus Christ’s body.
2) An intact Temple in Jerusalem.
3) The end of war or poverty.
4) The elimination of the Christian Church.
5) Immortality science.
6) A demonstrated ability to avoid Biblical sin.
7) The destruction of the Jewish people.

You are right. For all I know I could be having a psychotic episode. No way to know. But I would at least be open to the idea. That's what im wondering. What it would take for people to start questioning it if at all. Thank you for you answers. Very interesting. So immortality would make you question it! That's cool man. I wonder how many other people of faith are as open minded as you. Maybe I'm the one being closed minded by assuming most "beleivers" don't think along these lines. Those are great answers man.

 

[Chinballs]

So is there anything that could hypothetically happen/come forward that would make you question that belief? Just curious.

Like sorry.. I just really can't think of anything. How do you put the idea of a creator into question to begin with? If it's loosely based like that?

I beleive we have a soul as well. So... I dunno, maybe if I died and was like clinically dead for 30 mins and woke up with absolutely nothing but a bad feeling of emptiness?

I don't know, that would be rough but I'm not sure how much it would actually prove to me.

Granted, I'm a poor bait for your cause.

 

[Vitor CroCop]

That is depressing

I think it's great! But that's not the point of this thread. Is there ANYTHING that could happen to make you question your faith TCK? Anything at all? THURISAZ gave some great examples. Would love to hear your thoughts.