Excellent fact based video on universal basic income

[Trotsky]

But I think in his OP, he states that people will be less lazy, and get off dey azz as opposed to what is happening now with current welfare programs.

That's not what the OP said, though. It just said that UBI payouts didn't negatively affect workforce participation, which we could already deduce from existing entitlements. But while existing entitlements do pin independent income to eligibility and therefore given a theoretical incentive against earning a private wage, UBI does not.

 

[Oeshon]

My idea is far more nefarious than what many would be willing to swallow.

Personally, I am for culling the human population to a reasonable and sustainable size. Place an emphasis on space exploration, as the Sun will eventually give out and place people in to jobs that they are suited for. Everyone would be given the same food and housing as this would be a global effort.

That is the very short of it as mentioned on mobile.

So you are a totalitarian but instead of just killing millions, you want to kill billions.

Mao would be proud.

 

[Oeshon]

I'm not sure what the alternative is giving the impending automation conundrum.

You're left with just 2 possible options:
1. Eliminate the population
2. Be content with a tiny tiny number of people having all of the wealth and 99.999% of us being a literal slave underclass.

I'd much rather be alive and subjectively poor than "eliminated".

 

[oleDirtyBast4rd]

I haven't had a glass of milk in 10+ years. You keep failing on your attacks on me.

Making fun of somebody for drinking milk isn't really something I'd be concerned about anyways... vegans aren't made fun of for their diet choices. They are made fun of because they are insufferable.

 

[BEER]

I'd like to see a move to a universal healthcare program before universal basic income.

And I'm poor as shit. I could use an extra thousand bucks a month. Fuck. An extra thousand bucks a month would take a lot of weight off my shoulders.

 

[xcvbn]

This current welfare state is like a UBI for select people on the welfare program. They get food stamps, Sec 8, etc, etc. Or is the difference with UBI, the people get to choose what they can spend on?

If our current welfare state is exactly as you think, I fail to see how just giving them the cash to spend on what they want, will change anything.

Well you've got two choices for changing the current system: let these people and their families wind up on the street or cut the middle man out with all the bureaucratic bullshit like turning tax dollars into food stamps/section 8 credits.

Idk about you but I hate seeing poor/homeless people on the streets. They stink. They're ugly. They hog all the good air.

I'd rather a portion of the taxes I pay go to keeping these bums off the street and allowing them to wash their stank asses.

 

[12ga.]

Trump had UBI, in fact he inherited 100 million from his daddy and still worked. Warren buffet also born rich and may others. Hell I don't have to work anymore but I still do.

I think people have ambition or don't no social policy will change that.

At the end of the day you have to decide if you want hoards of homeless or not.Do you want to give opportunities or not.

It's cheap to provide basics for poor people.

 

[Madmick]

The more I read about this proposal the more it comes off to me as the same hyper-ideological, theoretical approach to economic inequality as the "flat tax" nonsense, but from the radical leftist socialist thinkers, not the hard right libertarian economists.

Replace all other welfare services with UBI? Okay. Sure. Why not.

Well, because more targeted social services that attempt to correct imbalance and inequalities, or at least nurture those most innocently harmed by these unavoidable economic realities, just seems to make so much damn more sense from a practical point of view. Flat taxes and flat welfare do not seem well-conceived to address economic problems of an inherently scalar nature.

That's why.

 

[Oeshon]

why stop at $1000? You can't live comfortably on $1000 currently. Why don't we give everyone $5000 a month instead so we can all live better and defeat poverty? That is 5x the benefit of the previous UBI plan bois!

 

[V Belfort]

make a testrun in a rural poor area and then let me know how the results are, i doubt we will see anything that will improve humanity.

 

[12ga.]

why stop at $1000? You can't live comfortably on $1000 currently. Why don't we give everyone $5000 a month instead so we can all live better and defeat poverty? That is 5x the benefit of the previous UBI plan bois!

We cant afford $5000 a month for everyone in poverty which is about 5% of American households or 20 million. But can afford $1000. Easily.

20 million x $1000 is 20 Billion x 12 months is 240 billion in a 4000 billion annual budget.

We just don't want to. I guess people like homeless lingering on every street corner, people committing crimes for basics, and other ills of poverty and destitution.

 

[Rational Poster]

Then the real world came-----

Starting in January 2017, Finland experimented with giving a random sample of 2,000 unemployed people between the ages of 25 and 58 a monthly income of roughly $690; the recipients were not required to have a job; if they did take a job, they would receive the same amount.
The idea was to stimulate people to look for paid work by eradicating gaps in the welfare system; the Finnish government thought that with existing unemployment benefits so high, an unemployed person would eschew getting a job because they would risk losing money by doing so; the more money they made, the lower their social benefits would be. The basic income was meant as an incentive for people to start working.

But now Finland is canceling the program, though the government will not say why. Kela, the Finnish social security agency, asked the government to expand the two-year pilot to a group of employees this year, but the government nixed funding it, meaning the entire program will come to a crashing halt in January 2019.

So what you're saying is they planned a two year experiment and its ending after two years as planned.

 

[Rational Poster]

The more I read about this proposal the more it comes off to me as the same hyper-ideological, theoretical approach to economic inequality as the "flat tax" nonsense, but from the radical leftist socialist thinkers, not the hard right libertarian economists.

Replace all other welfare services with UBI? Okay. Sure. Why not.

Well, because more targeted social services that attempt to correct imbalance and inequalities, or at least nurture those most innocently harmed by these unavoidable economic realities, just seems to make so much damn more sense from a practical point of view. Flat taxes and flat welfare do not seem well-conceived to address economic problems of an inherently scalar nature.

That's why.

What happens to all the social service workers when we eliminate all the programs and start handing out checks? Do we just hand out more checks?

I think the UBI is interesting, but people don't seem to understand how vitally linked our economy is to government spending already. I think what makes it interesting isn't the money, but the idea that social services don't cut off because your earnings went over a line.

Everyone who wants to cut military spending for more social services don't seem to understand that military spending is creating a lot of jobs for the rich, poor, and middle class.

We'd be borrowing from Peter to pay Paul.

 

[Mark Hunts FIST]

I'm old enough and have enough equity in my house, if you liberals want to pay for me to smoke weed and "find myself", I'm in.