Famous BASE jumper dies in wingsuit jump.

[Fawlty]

I'm glad you took it upon yourself to create a post ranking system. Much sophisticated.

The vast majority of people who have died on Everest didn't go it alone. They climbed with friends, partners, people they loved, etc. Or they paid a shit ton of money to an expedition/guide to get them to the top. Either way, there is a huge investment from the climbers, the guides, the Sherpa community, the government of Nepal, etc. Now, don't you think that if they could bring these people down off of the mountain, they would?

I linked an article below for some context that will give you an idea of how hard it is to rescue people via helicopter more than 9,000 feet below Everest's peak. Once you enter the Khumbu Icefall, which is just above base camp, you're likely fucked if anything goes wrong.

Read the article and propose your solution since, in your mind, it seems to be an simple solution. Be sure to include how you would get a frozen body across a bunch of these crevasses in the icefall while laboring for breath at nearly 18,000 feet.

"Clear weather on Monday allowed helicopters to reach altitudes of 20,000 feet and pluck stranded climbers from high up the mountain, Agence France-Press reported. Because of thinning atmosphere at that high altitude, each aircraft could only evacuate two people, Romanian climber Alex Gavan said on Twitter."

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usatoday.com/story/26445519/

Spot with the "if they could, they would" comment, and the economic considerations & nature of the team commitment.

The icefall isn't a great example because it's actually quite doable to move bodies down it (it's a bitch for sure though, and dangerous), as the route is fixed and maintained constantly during the season, and the altitude is not a big problem, so returning to the body is easy if you have to abandon the effort for whatever reason.

 

[ILLogic]

Spot with the "if they could, they would" comment, and the economic considerations & nature of the team commitment.

The icefall isn't a great example because it's actually quite doable to move bodies down it (it's a bitch for sure though, and dangerous), as the route is fixed and maintained constantly during the season, and the altitude is not a big problem, so returning to the body is easy if you have to abandon the effort for whatever reason.

Bringing bodies off of the mountain like the guy I responded to was suggesting would mean that an unbelievable amount of effort would have to be put into just getting them to the icefall, and then the bodies would have to be navigated through it. Of course they could have a fresh team ready to meet the bodies at that point, but they would risk having literally tons of ice falling on them.

More people would die in the process, and then we'd be asking who is going to bring those people. It would just create a vicious cycle of futility and death.

 

[MikeMcMann]

...

The vast majority of people who have died on Everest didn't go it alone. They climbed with friends, partners, people they loved, etc. Or they paid a shit ton of money to an expedition/guide to get them to the top. Either way, there is a huge investment from the climbers, the guides, the Sherpa community, the government of Nepal, etc. Now, don't you think that if they could bring these people down off of the mountain, they would?...

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usatoday.com/story/26445519/

Funnily enough, as a risk taker myself I would never do an Everest Summit.

The reason for me is that the most deadly element, weather, is completely out of your control and basically random, no matter what the forecast tells you.

Although most people see all risk as basically the same there is definately a difference between risk you can mostly understand and control the variables and risk you cannot. When I sky dive I understand that if I do everything properly and it all works I will be fine in my jump. At that point it is only a freak accident or mistake that will cause my death, the same as when I am driving my car.

In climbing Everest you can do everything correct and not make a single mistake and if you have the misfortune of climbing when a sudden intense storm blows in you are fucked. You are basically giving over the most important aspect of our safety to random chance or rolling the dice.

That is not the type of risk I would take.

 

[DoomPatrol]

I'm glad you took it upon yourself to create a post ranking system. Much sophisticated.

The vast majority of people who have died on Everest didn't go it alone. They climbed with friends, partners, people they loved, etc. Or they paid a shit ton of money to an expedition/guide to get them to the top. Either way, there is a huge investment from the climbers, the guides, the Sherpa community, the government of Nepal, etc. Now, don't you think that if they could bring these people down off of the mountain, they would?

I linked an article below for some context that will give you an idea of how hard it is to rescue people via helicopter more than 9,000 feet below Everest's peak. Once you enter the Khumbu Icefall, which is just above base camp, you're likely fucked if anything goes wrong.

Read the article and propose your solution since, in your mind, it seems to be an simple solution. Be sure to include how you would get a frozen body across a bunch of these crevasses in the icefall while laboring for breath at nearly 18,000 feet.

"Clear weather on Monday allowed helicopters to reach altitudes of 20,000 feet and pluck stranded climbers from high up the mountain, Agence France-Press reported. Because of thinning atmosphere at that high altitude, each aircraft could only evacuate two people, Romanian climber Alex Gavan said on Twitter."

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usatoday.com/story/26445519/

I'm a sophisticated type of man.


So if on a really perfect day, a helicopter can make it to 20,000 feet that means at most you'll need to get a body down about 9000 ft. You've got 300 people going up every year, so each team moves a body so many feet to a predetermined place that you can tie body to. Kind of like another climbing the mountain tax. Want to recreate on top of this death hill? You gotta move a body a little bit.

Of course I'm completely talking out of my ass because I've never mountaineered on anything so high that you need supplemental oxygen. But I'm inclined to think that if hundreds of people are literally walking past a dead body, they can figure something out. It's probably just more than anyone wants to spend to do it. There's more than enough people willing to climb the mountain.

 

[billiam]

I'm a sophisticated type of man.


So if on a really perfect day, a helicopter can make it to 20,000 feet that means at most you'll need to get a body down about 9000 ft. You've got 300 people going up every year, so each team moves a body so many feet to a predetermined place that you can tie body to. Kind of like another climbing the mountain tax. Want to recreate on top of this death hill? You gotta move a body a little bit.

Of course I'm completely talking out of my ass because I've never mountaineered on anything so high that you need supplemental oxygen. But I'm inclined to think that if hundreds of people are literally walking past a dead body, they can figure something out. It's probably just more than anyone wants to spend to do it. There's more than enough people willing to climb the mountain.

We can't move green boots. He's a landmark now.

 

[wlu.29]

My curiosity is how these guys have money to live and do the things they do

 

[Fawlty]

I'm a sophisticated type of man.


So if on a really perfect day, a helicopter can make it to 20,000 feet that means at most you'll need to get a body down about 9000 ft. You've got 300 people going up every year, so each team moves a body so many feet to a predetermined place that you can tie body to. Kind of like another climbing the mountain tax. Want to recreate on top of this death hill? You gotta move a body a little bit.

Of course I'm completely talking out of my ass because I've never mountaineered on anything so high that you need supplemental oxygen. But I'm inclined to think that if hundreds of people are literally walking past a dead body, they can figure something out. It's probably just more than anyone wants to spend to do it. There's more than enough people willing to climb the mountain.

The reason your mountain tax idea is impractical, even though it seems just, is that it's a specialized activity, even within mountaineering.

It has its own plan and its own team and resources, which are sometimes planned for in advance, but most often cobbled together in impromptu situations from surplus.

In theory, you could put the word out that a certain corpse "wants to come down" and then teams with the right luck and resources might do what they could, now and then. It's quite another level of danger in any case.

 

[DoomPatrol]

We can't move green boots. He's a landmark now.

@ILLogic

Someone else said that they've apparently moved most of the bodies that people are pretty much walking past.

I totally understand if they are stuck in a crevasse or just way out there, but people are all over this mountain with tent cities and high tech gear now. It's not 1950s mountaineering.

 

[Fawlty]

We can't move green boots. He's a landmark now.

He got moved by the Chinese a few years ago, I believe.

 

[minute bull]

He got moved by the Chinese a few years ago, I believe.

They probably just regentrified borderlines and called it job done.

 

[ILLogic]

I'm a sophisticated type of man.


So if on a really perfect day, a helicopter can make it to 20,000 feet that means at most you'll need to get a body down about 9000 ft. You've got 300 people going up every year, so each team moves a body so many feet to a predetermined place that you can tie body to. Kind of like another climbing the mountain tax. Want to recreate on top of this death hill? You gotta move a body a little bit.

Of course I'm completely talking out of my ass because I've never mountaineered on anything so high that you need supplemental oxygen. But I'm inclined to think that if hundreds of people are literally walking past a dead body, they can figure something out. It's probably just more than anyone wants to spend to do it. There's more than enough people willing to climb the mountain.

The bodies aren't sitting at base camp. They're up on the mountain in areas where humans struggle to breath and their bodies are literally consuming themselves.

I recommend you read Into Thin Air. It'll give you a better appreciation for the unpredictable nature of the mountain and the struggle that comes with just trying to put one foot in front of the other at various points of the climb.

And they may have moved bodies but that's moving them off of the path so they aren't in the way of climbers.

 

[jimbob27]

@ILLogic

Someone else said that they've apparently moved most of the bodies that people are pretty much walking past.

I totally understand if they are stuck in a crevasse or just way out there, but people are all over this mountain with tent cities and high tech gear now. It's not 1950s mountaineering.

People still die there almost every year. There have been lots of expeditions there with the sole intent of recovering a body of somebody that died, but very few have successfully done it. Some of those expeditions have ended with further dead bodies on the mountain. Just climbing the thing is still pushing human endurance to the limit, carrying down a 180lb solid block of ice is beyond pretty much anyone's capabilities.

 

[ralphc1]

The snow also blows on in high winds, covering the deceased. It then packs down over time, freezing into thick ice.

It doesn't stay there and pack because of the fierce winds. The highest part of the mountain is rock. If you live in a cold climate, when the temperature stays that far below freezing, the snow blows around until it get warmer. You can't even pack it into snowballs. It can be blown away with a leaf blower. It will stay in flat areas but the highest part of Everest is very steep. The wind usually exposes the bodies.

It also doesn't snow much when it's that cold. The air can't hold much moisture when it's cold and it needs to get colder to condense but it's already in ice crystals. The wind even dries out previously fallen snow and blows that around. It is not uncommon for the wind to sour the snow out of my yard when it's below 0 Fahrenheit for any length of time.

 

[The Diplomat]

It's what he would have wanted.

 

[ralphc1]

Oh without a doubt the fear or the risk is a big part of it.

I wish I could find that "Science of Adrenalin" episode I spoke up thread.

They wired up the heads of different people and subjected them to various stimuli. They showed them videos of people walking tight ropes, jumping off cliffs, surfing, etc, etc.

The risk adverse people would almost be having a heart attack with any stimulus. Hearts racing, mind firing. The risk takers sat there as if dead. Almost bored the more of a risk taker they tested.

What they determined is that certain people who tend to be risk takers tend to walk thru normal life never feeling emotional highs and that can lead to some feeling bored, unfulfilled or even dead inside. They NEED to experience heightened risk to just FEEL like others feel.

They predicted this was a genetic trait that developed over millions of years of evolution with a small percentage of society as the most successful societies would be the ones who pushed the boundaries. Found new territory and took risks. But not everyone in a society can be a risk taker and in fact most cannot and should not. Most in society need to be risk adverse and stay home and nest and take care of family and all the stuff at home while others sail off into the unknown (often violent unknown) to try and find a better life for all.

It completely made sense.

They also said that serial entrepreneurs seem to be a way that a lot of these risk takers find an outlet without taking as much physical risk. They studied the brains of many entrepreneurs and found they have a similar response to stimuli and tend to require more risk or more stimulus to get a similar reaction.

As I said, they are getting their brains to produce the chemicals that gives them that high. Others use drugs to get that high. I suspect it goes back to hunting where risks were taken. Humans, like most animals, have a fight or flight response. We've all seen people who will jump at loud noises or sudden movements and are unable to control that enough to even run away. They would get caught by a predator which would allow others to get away. To hunt, that response has to be controlled so those with a lower response to stimuli were more successful hunters. I still think it is the risk of death that creates that chemical reaction that gives them pleasure. Basically they have to risk death to feel pleasure so suicidal is the correct term. You can only beat the odds for so long before it catches up.

 

[sub_thug]

It doesn't stay there and pack because of the fierce winds. The highest part of the mountain is rock. If you live in a cold climate, when the temperature stays that far below freezing, the snow blows around until it get warmer. You can't even pack it into snowballs. It can be blown away with a leaf blower. It will stay in flat areas but the highest part of Everest is very steep. The wind usually exposes the bodies.

It also doesn't snow much when it's that cold. The air can't hold much moisture when it's cold and it needs to get colder to condense but it's already in ice crystals. The wind even dries out previously fallen snow and blows that around. It is not uncommon for the wind to sour the snow out of my yard when it's below 0 Fahrenheit for any length of time.

I get what you’re saying, but watch a documentary on climbing in the Himalayas. They are doing some serious ice climbing there. Those bodies, like everything else around them, are frozen into the ice. Oh yeah, watch out for the avalanches that occur there regularly.

 

[MikeMcMann]

As I said, they are getting their brains to produce the chemicals that gives them that high. Others use drugs to get that high. I suspect it goes back to hunting where risks were taken. Humans, like most animals, have a fight or flight response. We've all seen people who will jump at loud noises or sudden movements and are unable to control that enough to even run away. They would get caught by a predator which would allow others to get away. To hunt, that response has to be controlled so those with a lower response to stimuli were more successful hunters. I still think it is the risk of death that creates that chemical reaction that gives them pleasure. Basically they have to risk death to feel pleasure so suicidal is the correct term. You can only beat the odds for so long before it catches up.

Well you are certainly entitled to that opinion but I would not agree.

Again everything is a matter of degrees. My mom thinks riding a bike in the city amongst cars is crazy risky. She does not need nor could she handle much more stimuli in her life.

I am levels above my mom and most ordinarily people in that I find I need to do things like Sky Dive, Bungee Jump, Rock climb, Scuba dive, etc on top of being a serial entrepreneur to get my stimulation.

Guys who Wing suit and do the even more extreme stuff are levels above me.

I think regardless of the level a person is at we all want to emotions such as excitement, exhilaration and elation and just takes some people far more to do achieve that than others. If you do not feel those things life goes by feeling blah.

I certainly know I do not have a death risk when I do the things I do. I just am willing to take more risk to feel what others feel normally. I also do not think even the most extreme activity seekers have any desire to die and the desire to die is a key factor in suicidal, so I would completely disagree with that opinion.

Race Car drivers know their sport can kill them at any time in any accident. Yet they push the limits. I do not see them as suicidal just because they accept death might be a consequence of pushing those limits.