Far east - why we haven't fighters from there?

[One MMA Fan]

I'd say a lot of it has to do with economy. The best people make the most bank in the US, so they open their schools in US.

Also, American (edit: Collegiate) wrestling is one of the main keys to being successful in MMA... & US has been training that much more than the eastern people. It was decided in UFC 1 that Kung Fu etc... falls to a wrestler every time. The Kung Fu guy has to "MMA his game" out to make it.

I understood it perfectly why you said American wrestling I knew what you meant 100% and I'm not even from there.

Yes USA has a good system in place from high-school to when stuff gets serious in college performance wise and even that style of wrestling seems to be working just fine in MMA.

 

[Myrddin Wild]

Its a fantastic fighting style
But the reason theres so many of them in the ufc is it largely recruits americans and its taught in most semi decent high schools ....simple!
That awnser to why there arent many asians ? the ufc doesnt recruit many ...its that straightforward!

Until theres some kind of offical criteria or outside ufc rankings used to get into the org the usual sherdog discussions of best style base ,nationalities, body shapes , guys from other sports crossing over etc are all b.s

There are no nationalities when the cage door closes. The winner is the winner.

There have been lots of oriental people who have come into the UFC, but they seem to get beat back at the higher levels. I don't think any of them have become champion. I can only think of a few that have even come close to the title picture. Zombie got a shot at Aldo. Stun Gunz last 2 losses were to american wrestlers. Yushin keeps running into trouble at the higher end. I'm not prejudice, I'm just pointing out my thoughts regarding the convo of this thread. It's just data. It is what it is. Choi came in strong & got beat out of the top 10 by 2 americans. That's not my fault. I'm just telling you what happened.

You seem to be saying that there have been oriental fighters out there who could've become a UFC champ, but they were turned away because the UFC doesn't recruit them. I don't think that's true at all. I think any stand out fighter of any nationality will be considered by the UFC.

It seems to me that the UFC recruits the best fighters... & if more of them are American, then that is a testament to America... not proof that the UFC is prejudice.

the ufc doesnt recruit many ...its that straightforward!

What you are not exploring is "why."

Do oriental civilizations even have a strong MMA infrastructure or are most schools still narrowed in on ancient heritage skills?

You hit on it a bit in your response & even gave America a shout out regarding teaching wrestling in school. In my opinion, this is a major contributor as to why more Americans rise to the top. I don't think you are giving enough credit to American fighters for having this base.

Also, as I pointed out in my 1st post of this thread, it's a very lucrative economy so more teachers come here in order to have more students & be able to make a better living for themselves. I think it has more to do with that kind of stuff than it does with what you're saying. There's at least a couple dozen MMA schools in the city I live in. How many are in oriental cities? or do they mostly still focus on the individual arts of their heritage?

MMA has proven many times to be superior to any one individual style. No offense to the ancient arts because they can be successfully "incorporated" into MMA, but it's just one facet of a game that they will need many components of. For example, A Kung Fu expert better damn well be able to defend a take down or know how to work a guard from the bottom because his whole Kung Fu game goes out the window when he's laying on his back. World Champion boxer James Tony fights Couture & it's over rocket quick with a take down.

Now flip the script. Take a guy like Brock Lesnar who was pretty much a one dimensional fighter based around wrestling. All he had to do was a year or so of fundamental & basic striking & he dominated in MMA. He continued to develop his striking, but it was his wrestling that allowed him to became one of only a handfull of people to gain the HW belt 3 times consecutively. Back in the day, Dan Severn, Mark Coleman, & Don Frye all just came right off the wrestling mats & added a bit of striking to their game to immediately do well in MMA... and eventually became Legends. That's my point. Wrestling is one of the greatest weapons to have in an MMA fight... so do not dismiss it in this conversation. it's a huge advantage in MMA that Americans teach their kids wrestling in school. So if oriental people don't teach it to their kids in school, but Americans do... then that's more of a testament to American's than it is to prejudice of the UFC.

 

[Hauptstoss]

Theres plenty of good asian mma fighters.

 

[calisoul]

Even when you take body weight into account far eastern fighters are still smaller in other ways like for example height.

I heard they have smaller penises. Is that true?

 

[MMAart]

is this what it is? I always felt like asian fighters always had really suspect chins, maybe a genetic thing

they may have an "okay" streak, but once they fight elite talent they always seem to get KO'd

exception Korean Zombie

does anyone remember Anthony Johnson vs. Yoshida? Yoshida was like 11-3 and going up against Rumble looked like it was the biggest mismatch in the history of the sport

I'm not disagreeing with you - to be fair anyone fighting against Rumble would look like a mismatch.

 

[tenniswhiz]

is this what it is? I always felt like asian fighters always had really suspect chins, maybe a genetic thing

they may have an "okay" streak, but once they fight elite talent they always seem to get KO'd

exception Korean Zombie

does anyone remember Anthony Johnson vs. Yoshida? Yoshida was like 11-3 and going up against Rumble looked like it was the biggest mismatch in the history of the sport

Rumble weighed in at 176, and probably weighed about 200 in the cage.
Yoshida probably still weighed close to 170.

 

[DatSamboKid]

We will eventually, a fighter like Ho Choi is an example and One FC is doing a great job building talents. Give East Asia some time.

 

[Bert415]

is this what it is? I always felt like asian fighters always had really suspect chins, maybe a genetic thing

they may have an "okay" streak, but once they fight elite talent they always seem to get KO'd

exception Korean Zombie

does anyone remember Anthony Johnson vs. Yoshida? Yoshida was like 11-3 and going up against Rumble looked like it was the biggest mismatch in the history of the sport

Some of the best chins in boxing history belonged to Asian fighters so I don’t know about that. I think it has to do more with the fact that there aren’t great trainers and camps over there and the competition level isn’t the same.

 

[executionermma]

Well these are 4 very different regions, the only similarity between them it's the fact they're part of Asia, but it's almost impossible to really write about MMA progress (or lack of) in China and at the same time talk about Japan, who is a top 8 country when it comes to MMA development.

 

[PEDS Help me Post]

This is copied from Wikipedia
"Collegiate wrestling has had so many influences from the wide variety of folk wrestling styles brought into the country that it has become distinctly "American."

I'm not saying that America invented the oldest form of combat. If your argument is that American wrestling developed from other countries... then lets go back to the pre-historic cave paintings that show them wrestling & so now all wrestling should here forth be known as "Pre-historic" wrestling because that was its origin. No.... that's not how it works... because the different rule sets that developed are exclusive to certain styles & I'm pointing out that the particular style that developed in America, is one of the strongest weapons in an MMA fight.

Perhaps the term "Collegiate" wrestling works better for you. It developed from "Catch" wrestling & various forms of "Folk" wrestling, but with the removal of submissions from the style... "Collegiate" wrestling really refined its ability to stay on top & control the opponent. It also gave them an inherent natural instinct to get up off the bottom & not be held down. It is this narrowed focus from the other styles of wrestling that the really good collegiate wrestlers are using so successfully in the UFC since as far back as Dan Severn.

Don't look now... at the list of current champions that are collegiate wrestlers...

Stipe
DC
Woodley
TJ
DJ

The divisions that don't have collegiate wrestlers as their champions.... have them in the ranks as top contenders.... & many of them are past champions.

Jon Jones, Cain Velasquez, Brock Lesnar, Curtiss Blaydes, Ferguson, Kevin Lee, Cody Garbrandt, Dom Cruz, Cejudo, Edgar, Mendez, Covington, Rockhold, Weidman etc...

Faber, Hendo, Chael, & Bader were all collegiate wrestlers & the list goes on & on & on of dominating collegiate wrestlers, I haven't even scratched the surface with who I've listed here....

...& there's a ton of champions from the past. Many of whom are straight up Legendz.
Hughes, Tito, Couture, Liddell, Coleman, Frye, Randleman, Ricco Rodrigez, Barnett, Mir, Rashad, Carwin, Evan Tanner, Pat Militech, Johnny Hendricks, Sean Sherk etc....

GSP did not compete as a collegiate wrestler, but he very obviously learned the style & used it as his key weapon which was so successful that he entered the legit GOAT conversation.

Collegiate wrestling is one of the strongest most dominating techniques in MMA.

If you disagree then maybe you can manage more than 2 fooking words & try & express yourself in an actual discussion instead of trying to be a smartass.

Too bad you're just missing the part where Eastern Europeans dominate wrestling at the international level.

 

[piropiro]

The biggest potential talent pool for MMA in the world is a town called Dengfeng, in central China. It’s only a matter of time and opportunities.

It’s the closest town to Shaolin temple and it’s nicknamed KungFu City ... there are some 80000 full time students of various martial academies who, from age 6 to 18 (!) train 8 hours per day 6 days a week in sanda fighting, traditional kungfu, acrobatics, breaking sticks and stones with the body, functional training and meditation.

They start the day at 4am by running 8-10km up steep mountain trails whilst alternating sprints, hundreds of frog jumps and carrying each other up endless stairs. Regardless if it’s -10 and snowing, at most wearing a worn sweater. The rest of the day follows at that same kind of intensity...

Sleeping is on hard bunks in unheated rooms, washing is outside with cold water, injures are mostly treated with the “train harder or get beat up by the coach” approach, hygene is minimal and food very basic.

Parents are visited a couple of times per year and in the evenings, when the body can no longer move, they do normal schoolwork ... total discipline.

At present most kids are there aiming at jobs as kungfu teachers, policemen, soldiers, security, some become national sanda or wushu athletes and very few even Shaolin monks.

Noone has any idea about MMA or the UFC and there are no wrestling or bjj coaches (there is some wrestling in sanda but insufficient for MMA).

Wait a few years, as MMA becomes a viable career in China ... Dengfeng will be the go-to place for super talented potentials in all weight classes under 170.

 

[Tom Taylor]

One is doing well and has its fanbase but overall MMA as a sport is very niche in these areas.

MMA is very niche in every country. Go ask 10 Americans who Eddie Alvarez or Stipe Miocic Tony Ferguson or Demetrious Johnson is, and see how many have any idea whatsoever. The majority of people knowing who Conor McGregor is doesn't mean that MMA isn't a niche sport.

 

[BForrester]

But in this case we have lightweight, featherweight, bantamweight and flyweight division and only 2 good fighters Doo Ho Choi and Horiguchi (who abandoned UFC)

Why would you fight in the U.S. when you can fight in your homeland? They'll never be as popular here as they would in Japan.

 

[dudeguyman]

 

[dudeguyman]

In China, Japan, Korea Thailand martial arts are very popular. Karate, aikido, judo teakwondo etc.

In my opinion Asia is a center of martial arts.

Why we have only few good fighters in the UFC? White and black guys are better in fighting or something like that? In west we have better fighting style like boxing, wrestling etc?

 

[MessiJAH]

Dana White in his all seeing genius decided to kill off the asian mma scene. That's why.

 

[Myrddin Wild]

Too bad you're just missing the part where Eastern Europeans dominate wrestling at the international level.

link or didn't happen

My point of view is that "Collegiate" wrestling is one of the most effective tools in MMA... you're dropping off a general statement about "Wrestling" which could encompass a vast variety of styles.

...for being a troll & once again being way to vague in your responses with no links.

 

[PEDS Help me Post]

link or didn't happen

My point of view is that "Collegiate" wrestling is one of the most effective tools in MMA... you're dropping off a general statement about "Wrestling" which could encompass a vast variety of styles.

...for being a troll & once again being way to vague in your responses with no links.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Olympic_medalists_in_freestyle_wrestling
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Olympic_medalists_in_Greco-Roman_wrestling

 

[Yodsanan]

Busy doing great in Kickboxing, Boxing and Muay Thai.

People here should really follow other martial arts to get a feeling of how the landscape of these sports are looking. 2,5/10 P4P Top 10 Boxers are asian, 4/10 P4P Top 10 Kickboxers are asian.


Nobody in asia really cares about mma.

 

[mmacanada]

In the UFC your featherweight fighters are cutting from like 165lbs and can be freaking 5ft 10.

Or 6 2 like nurmagomedsharipov