firemans carry in grapplings

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by tekkenfan, Jul 5, 2018.

  1. tekkenfan

    tekkenfan Purple Belt

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    im not a big fan of it tbh i find at higher levels you give a guy an inch he will take a mile but thiis set up seems pretty coolwhat do you think about it

     
  2. jack36767

    jack36767 Brown Belt

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    What are you talking about.. the fireman’s carry and most variations work all the way up to the Olympic level. If you’re giving up a mile it’s because you are still a white belt in wrestling
     
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  3. jack36767

    jack36767 Brown Belt

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    Slick little setup and technique you found though
     
  4. tekkenfan

    tekkenfan Purple Belt

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    obviously it works well in wrestling i said grappling not wrestling u dont see it much in grappling bjj submission wrestling or mma it has happened but i think alot share my feelings in that its dangerous at higher levels
     
  5. jack36767

    jack36767 Brown Belt

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    I was referring in part to grappling, I go no leg or outside dump/near arm-far leg when backtakes or crucifixes are a danger. Bjj scout also just did a video on a high level black belt that uses the judo version of the fireman’s at a world level.. You just have to adjust it for grappling.. like literally everything else


    As for mma of course not. It’s actually not an over hooks attack in most cases. It’s an inside tie/tricept control which for obvious reasons doesn’t occur or should be tried.

    My point remains the same
     
  6. ArtemV

    ArtemV Gold Belt

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    I love fireman's carries from failed hi-crotch attempts; if somebody tries to get an underhook/sprawl or a cross-face, they essentially give their tricep to you.
     
  7. rmongler

    rmongler Brown Belt

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    I look at it as less like the carry in particular, and more like the elbow tie/elbow pull itself that is strong, leg or no leg. Whether the result is you going for the leg, or ducking under, or spinning under, is basically garnish.
     
  8. Clinchster

    Clinchster Green Belt

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    I have decent luck with the legless fireman from a russian tie. Have to have a strong russian game though.
     
  9. Uchi Mata

    Uchi Mata Preaching the gospel of heel hooks and left kicks

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    I think it's fairly dangerous, you're at significant risk of getting crucifixed, but some guys use it with success like Xande and Cyborg.
     
  10. TheGZA

    TheGZA Excellent! But not good.

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    Rader used to do it a lot.

     
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  11. tekkenfan

    tekkenfan Purple Belt

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    depends who your fighting too i wouldnt wana do it vs a great guard player knowing they are gonna try to wrap my limps up into crucifixes ect
     
  12. imarayda

    imarayda Green Belt

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    Tbh the crucifix isn’t a big risk. I personally use the same side lapel grip when I pull the guy into a fireman’s carry, and no one has come even close to getting a crucifix.
     
  13. DatCutman

    DatCutman Yellow Belt

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    Granted 99% of my fireman's carrys are in a Sambo format, but it's harder to crucifix than it seems. Also the fireman has the ability to just lean forward and tump you off the top, especially so in Nogi.
     
  14. Uchi Mata

    Uchi Mata Preaching the gospel of heel hooks and left kicks

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    The main reason I mention the crucifix is because I crucifix people off fireman's almost every time someone shoots one on me. Though I do like the dump over the head finish for sub grappling, makes it much harder to maintain the crucifix than if you roll through.
     
  15. DatCutman

    DatCutman Yellow Belt

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    Just curious; are your opponents grabbing the lapel? I usually hit it from a sleeve grip, maybe that's why it's harder for my training partners to crucifix me. That or my training partners just aren't hip on crucifixes. I also try to get their hands to the mat before I bother weaving my arm around their leg, but that doesn't seem like it should make a lot of difference.
     
  16. Uchi Mata

    Uchi Mata Preaching the gospel of heel hooks and left kicks

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    I train almost exclusively no-gi. That's probably part of it as well. It's harder to crucifix in the gi due to the friction (not as easy to quickly insert a heel), and also because tori has much greater leverage to pull you all the way over to complete the throw. When I teach this in the gi (and it's actually one of my main TDs I like to teach in the gi) it's always throwing off a lapel grip though. I feel like that gives you the best pull and angle to get all the way under uke.
     
  17. westfield

    westfield White Belt

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    Fireman's carry is rarely used in college wrestling anymore.

    6. The fireman’s carry is all but gone in NCAA wrestling
    The fireman’s carry is a move that had its day, but that day is past. It still exists in high school, and some teams have a fair amount of success with it, but that success mostly ends in college. There are at least two reasons for this change. First, shooting a fireman’s carry often involves shooting across the opponent’s body, giving him a chance to get an advantageous angle on the attacker. Second, as technique trends away from the high crotch toward inside reach single legs, the prevalence of the fireman’s carry will continue to diminish. Robert Kokesh of Nebraska is one contemporary wrestler who did a lot of fireman’s carries during his freshman year of 2011-2012, but he seemed to have moved on from the move to a degree in 2013 and found greater success, including a third place finish in Des Moines.
    Source: https://news.theopenmat.com/blog/2013/08/26/andy-vogel-2013-ncaa-quarterfinal-analysis/
     
  18. jack36767

    jack36767 Brown Belt

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    Outside dump fireman’s are still relatively common but they turn into singles often and ironically the same guy who wrote that article a year later put up this compilation of what I’m talking about


    Internationally it is still used often with great success. Both the inside and outside versions. The issue with it in college is a lack of focus on it and the way it is taught

    The more relevant stat in that article was the one about head inside vs head outside attacks
     
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  19. asian-glow

    asian-glow Yellow Belt

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    Pros and cons of finishing on both knees vs dropping one leg?

    Latter seems easier to finish whereas thr former will be easier to dump from.
     
  20. jack36767

    jack36767 Brown Belt

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    I find the outside dump I showed about to be way safer personally
     

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