First Circuit Court:The government has no obligation to honor its pension promises

[ultramanhyata]

Pensions are a thing of the past. Should eliminate them entirely.

Also libraries and public parks. It's time to start innovating the shit out of this country.

 

[Prime Rib]

I bet the Judge that rendered the decision will get his pension.

Oh that shit is a given. Just like all politicians that vote to defund the ACA,Medicare, etc. will always have healthcare benefits. It's maddening.

 

[Bloody Pulp]

Brb, making sure no one wants to work in police or fire.

 

[Exception]

If the State of Illinois adopts this ruling/line of logic, which by all appearances it won't, they could rescind literal billions in pensions.

But, to be frank, state legislatures have gotten away with near robbery on issuing unsustainable state pensions, Illinois most notably. Illinois' state pensions for cops and prison guards are absolutely insane, where some employees receive 80% of their final salary for the rest of their lives.



Meh, depending on the tailoring of the ruling, this may be melodramatic.

This. I understand feeling bad for the people that retired with this idea. On the flip side, dipshits fall for get rich quick schemes all the time. To argue that this is any less stupid is simply being intellectually dishonest and playing with semantics. You would need less than community college econ levels of knowledge to see this shit is a fucking retarded pipe dream. Play stupid games.....

 

[Steve-French]

It’s beyond even that. So Mary Lisi was the Democrat district judge while initially ruled in favor of the democrat RI government’s plan. The union then appealed to the 1st circuit court and went before a panel of three judges - two of whom are Obama appointees! The entire narrative that this was in any way a consequence of voting republican (or its inverse, that voting democrat is any sort of defense against this type of ruling) is total garbage. Whether you agree or disagree with the ruling, every facet of this story is owned by Democrats.

Funny how nobody wants to talk about this anymore now.

 

[Gregolian]

Funny how nobody wants to talk about this anymore now.

You bring it up the more intellectually dishonest will pull the "two wrongs don't make a right" shit and not engage past that.

 

[Headkicktoleg]

This is super fucked up. It's like your company saying well we said we would pay you a wage, but we don't want to.

 

[machidafan99]

This is super fucked up. It's like your company saying well we said we would pay you a wage, but we don't want to.

There's a lot of exploitation of the system. Exaggerated overtime and a building up of hours/salary in the final years to maximize their retirement payments. Everyone involved is guilty of abusing the system.

 

[panamaican]

This is a case of shitty lawyering. THe Unions' argument is that a State law is a "contract". Which it isn't, it's a law. And what they are complaining about is not the absence of their pensions or the taking of their money. They are complaining about the rate at which their pensions increased for future retirees, not current ones.

The problem with that is that the State has the legal right to do so unless they explicitly stated they were not going to change it. But it appears that the State never said or suggested that these provisions of the law, related to rate of growth, were not subject to change.

The 2nd issue is that since it's a State law change, there is no justification for any claims alleged against the lower municipalities. Nor do the plaintiffs state what the city did that violated the law.

I don't see the parallel to Social Security since we already know that Congress that reduce benefits to people who have not started drawing down from Social Security and that they can void cost of living increases in the payout. So, it's not a failure to honor pension promises, so much as adjusting the payout formulas on the pension gains.

 

[HunterSdVa29]

this is ridiculous, if you signed a contract of employment w/ those benefits in place they should be honored

it's literally the main reason coupled w/ job security people choose public sector employment (as a Federal Employee i feel like i can say this a degree of certainty).

If this trend continues, along w/ lack of Union Strength in the private sector, SS reserves running out, and the average 401k having a loan against it currently......a Modest Proposal type solution by some crazy politician isn't far off in like twenty years (i wanna say the Japanese PM literally said he wished the old people would just hurry up and die like two years ago, to clear up their welfare system) . Not like HC costs are shrinking or people are living for only 50 years.

We either need to seriously rethink A) how we're gonna fund all of our retirements ( our generations, not necessarily us individually) or B) how much we truly value the elderly

the status quo isn't working

 

[panamaican]

this is ridiculous, if you signed a contract of employment w/ those benefits in place they should be honored

it's literally the main reason coupled w/ job security people choose public sector employment (as a Federal Employee i feel like i can say this a degree of certainty).

If this trend continues, along w/ lack of Union Strength in the private sector, SS reserves running out, and the average 401k having a loan against it currently......a Modest Proposal type solution by some crazy politician isn't far off in like twenty years (i wanna say the Japanese PM literally said he wished the old people would just hurry up and die like two years ago, to clear up their welfare system) . Not like HC costs are shrinking or people are living for only 50 years.

We either need to seriously rethink A) how we're gonna fund all of our retirements ( our generations, not necessarily us individually) or B) how much we truly value the elderly

the status quo isn't working

There is a basic issue, if people don't want to pay taxes, you can't fund these things. You already head several issues on the head. Lower growth rates, longer life spans. Constantly increasing spending in other areas.

There is no world where people can have a functioning fully funded pension system a la Social Security and an aversion to taxes.

 

[HunterSdVa29]

There is a basic issue, if people don't want to pay taxes, you can't fund these things. You already head several issues on the head. Lower growth rates, longer life spans. Constantly increasing spending in other areas.

There is no world where people can have a functioning fully funded pension system a la Social Security and an aversion to taxes.

i agree, which is why i added the 'how much do they care about the elderly part?'

as sad as it is, in the US, i see people saying 'screw them' before they want to raise taxes. Too many live paycheck to paycheck or with little savings to likely really comprehend how much that will help them, and others are just well greedy or let's say used to a certain lifestyle

It works in the EU and other places (high taxes, better SW systems) b/c they've been in place essentially since the rebuilding after WWII it's all generations have known. At least IMO

We could probably simply switch to EU levels of VAT for our sales tax, and think of how much funding that would provide for state medical programs and education.....having lived in the EU though, i know i don't want to personally pay 19-24% or whatnot

 

[HunterSdVa29]

There's also the 'tax the rich/corporations' more arguments, which make total sense in theory

In theory doesn't fund campaigns tho

 

[panamaican]

i agree, which is why i added the 'how much do they care about the elderly part?'

as sad as it is, in the US, i see people saying 'screw them' before they want to raise taxes. Too many live paycheck to paycheck or with little savings to likely really comprehend how much that will help them, and others are just well greedy or let's say used to a certain lifestyle

It works in the EU and other places (high taxes, better SW systems) b/c they've been in place essentially since the rebuilding after WWII it's all generations have known. At least IMO

We could probably simply switch to EU levels of VAT for our sales tax, and think of how much funding that would provide for state medical programs and education.....having lived in the EU though, i know i don't want to personally pay 19-24% or whatnot

The U.S. has a fascinating relationship with Europe in these issues. We hold up so many European social aspects as worthy of emulation...except for how Europe pays for it.

But, in accordance with your position, I think most Americans who are against higher taxes for social benefits simply have no idea how difficult life gets for the elderly and, since they're not elderly yet, they don't care.

 

[Gregolian]

I just wish I could adjust my withholding on the PER/S system. Never understood why that's not allowed.

 

[HunterSdVa29]

The U.S. has a fascinating relationship with Europe in these issues. We hold up so many European social aspects as worthy of emulation...except for how Europe pays for it.

But, in accordance with your position, I think most Americans who are against higher taxes for social benefits simply have no idea how difficult life gets for the elderly and, since they're not elderly yet, they don't care.

and perhaps their parents had jobs w/ better pensions or unions that had some retirement package
and the price of housing in relation to wages, the Millions of veterans from previous wars that used the GI Bill to go to school/purchase a house hand it down, etc...

Even myself, my grandfather was retired Navy and also Grumman, dad and stepdad retired Marines, Uncle retired Navy now NSA active, Grandmother retired HS teacher in SD county, younger bro wounded and medically retired from the Marines, mom was married to my Stepdad for more than 10 years of his service before divorce so gets half his pension, etc...

Other than my aunt who's a college professor/married to an Airline Captain, i'm the only person in my family that like even works or will have to for a considerable amount of time

 

[Quequeg]

I only make 32k a year right now.

I'll keep my pension where the county matches the 15% I put in every check thanks.

Not saying it is a good thing, just reality.

 

[HunterSdVa29]

the county matches 15%? what in the literal F?

generally i've only ever seen a 5% match, including my employer the DoD

 

[Scott Parker 27]

Sucks. The baby boomers had it all. Most of them had relatively cheap housing full pensions, excellent healthcare and voted themselves regular raises that were out of touch with reality. Not to mention at least some free college. By the time it was my turn to buy a home prices were through the roof, college is very expensive and now they want to take my pension so I can't retire in 15 years. Thanks very much baby boomers assholes and politicians.

 

[PainIsLIfe]

the county matches 15%? what in the literal F?

generally i've only ever seen a 5% match, including my employer the DoD

My company matches 50% on the first 5% you put in; they also add a supplemental match of another 25% after 15yrs service, but I'm pretty sure that's still only on the first 5%.