Forum preservation thread

Yodsanan said:
They do?
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Kato/Schilling, Daley/Stetsurenko, Overeem, Rampage beating Abidi x2, Mousasi, Adamchuk comes from an mma background too. I think jtwarwagon oversells it but there are definitely cases of mma fighters stepping into kickboxing and performing well.

TJ becoming a champ in thailand at lightweight wouldn't happen unless they basically gifted him a belt. He'd have to change his style pretty drastically for it to work in muay thai. He could wreak havoc in max muay thai with his power and athleticism alone but at a point that's not enough.
 
AbeRudder said:
TJ becoming a champ in thailand at lightweight wouldn't happen unless they basically gifted him a belt. He'd have to change his style pretty drastically for it to work in muay thai. He could wreak havoc in max muay thai with his power and athleticism alone but at a point that's not enough.
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There are some pretty mediocre fighters who hold stadium belts, even at the strongest weights. Belts aren't the greatest measure of quality and often when a farang wins a belt, it was vacant and they just fought some random guy for it. And gifting an MMA fighter a belt wouldn't really be anything out of the ordinary. Most of the farangs who challenge for belts didn't really have to fight in thailand much or work their way up the ranks to get their shot. I think Dillashaw could win a title under the right circumstances.

I believe that Nawapon Lukpachrist is the champion at super featherweight. I don't see anything special about him. I'm not sure he's even one of the 20 best fighters in that division. Could Dillashaw beat him? Maybe. Maybe not the majority of the time, but he'd at least have a punchers chance.
 
AbeRudder said:
Kato/Schilling, Daley/Stetsurenko, Overeem, Rampage beating Abidi x2, Mousasi, Adamchuk comes from an mma background too. I think jtwarwagon oversells it but there are definitely cases of mma fighters stepping into kickboxing and performing well.
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Saying MMA competitors won't do well in any kind of striking only competition is like saying Usain Bolt definetely won't do well playing for a professional soccer team.

In both cases, there are transferrable skills from one type of athletic competition to another. Them doing well depends on:

1. Quality of opposition
2. Quality of the athlete - conditioning, skill, durability etc
3. The elements of luck and chance that are involved in any sport

Given the very objective factors above, you can compare atheletes and see how well they'd do in eg kickboxing.

Example of breakdown:
Mousasi KO'd Musashi - older and worn out Musashi, younger and stronger Mousasi, luck on Mousasi's side
Overeem KO'd Badr - more skilled Badr, roid strength Overeem, luck with Overeem

I wouldn't be surprised if TJ could beat Takeru at this point
 
jtwarwagon4life said:
There are some pretty mediocre fighters who hold stadium belts, even at the strongest weights. Belts aren't the greatest measure of quality and often when a farang wins a belt, it was vacant and they just fought some random guy for it. And gifting an MMA fighter a belt wouldn't really be anything out of the ordinary. Most of the farangs who challenge for belts didn't really have to fight in thailand much or work their way up the ranks to get their shot. I think Dillashaw could win a title under the right circumstances.

I believe that Nawapon Lukpachrist is the champion at super featherweight. I don't see anything special about him. I'm not sure he's even one of the 20 best fighters in that division. Could Dillashaw beat him? Maybe. Maybe not the majority of the time, but he'd at least have a punchers chance.
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I could easily see an mma fighter winning a belt at super lightweight and above given that we've seen mediocre foreigners do it but at lightweight and below even the fringe fighters would beat up most top tier farang (at best where TJ places imo). If they held the fight in the US and TJ had a few pounds weight advantage I could see him taking a belt against someone of Nawapon's skill maybe, but in terms of any sustained success in Thailand I doubt TJ would be able to cut it.
 
jtwarwagon4life said:
There are some pretty mediocre fighters who hold stadium belts, even at the strongest weights. Belts aren't the greatest measure of quality and often when a farang wins a belt, it was vacant and they just fought some random guy for it. And gifting an MMA fighter a belt wouldn't really be anything out of the ordinary. Most of the farangs who challenge for belts didn't really have to fight in thailand much or work their way up the ranks to get their shot. I think Dillashaw could win a title under the right circumstances.

I believe that Nawapon Lukpachrist is the champion at super featherweight. I don't see anything special about him. I'm not sure he's even one of the 20 best fighters in that division. Could Dillashaw beat him? Maybe. Maybe not the majority of the time, but he'd at least have a punchers chance.
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There you have it. Muay Thai has paper champions and their title holder can lose to an MMA guy. Straight from the horses mouth. I guess it sucks like Kickboxing does then?
 
What am I supposed to gather by 5 second clips of sparring cut together mostly showcasing cheap shots after the bell?

Is this the nail in the coffin for Kickboxing you've been looking for?
 
Snubnoze707 said:
There you have it. Muay Thai has paper champions...

I guess it sucks like Kickboxing does then?
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This is not new, and is something a bunch of us have discussed and criticized. However, and more importantly, it's easy to identify the difference(s) of a fringe fighter (even if they're champion) from a fighter of greater prominence. Like with anything, it's also a straightforward way to see the quality/depth of that thing. Does this show to be the case in similar weights in K-1? What's the process a kickboxing fan goes through to differentiate a fighter at the peak of his sport from a fighter (perceived to be at the peak of his sport) with highlight reel KO's over competition that hasn't been established?
 
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Cocakillbana said:
This is not new, and is something a bunch of us have discussed and criticized. However, and more importantly, it's easy to identify the difference(s) of a fringe fighter (even if they're champion) from a fighter of greater prominence. Like with anything, it's also a straightforward way to see the quality/depth of that thing. Does this show to be the case in similar weights in K-1? What's the process a kickboxing fan goes through to differentiate a fighter at the peak of his sport from a fighter (perceived to be at the peak of his sport) with highlight reel KO's over competition that hasn't been established?
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The same as yours. Mileage will vary dependent on the level of knowledge of the viewer. Their are Muay Thai fans that believe Buakaw is the GOAT.
 
So LiverKick just updated their rankings and before clicking on it I knew it would be bogus. They always have questionable rankings. Firstly I don't understand why Petpanomrung and Roosmalen are not in the FW top 10. Secondly why is Marat at number 1 in LW and sittichai at number 2? You cant tell me that 1 win over superbon puts him ahead of sittichai even thou he's lost to him 3 times. Do you think that's fair?
 
Julius_Caesar said:
So LiverKick just updated their rankings and before clicking on it I knew it would be bogus. They always have questionable rankings. Firstly I don't understand why Petpanomrung and Roosmalen are not in the FW top 10. Secondly why is Marat at number 1 in LW and sittichai at number 2? You cant tell me that 1 win over superbon puts him ahead of sittichai even thou he's lost to him 3 times. Do you think that's fair?
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Its a mechanical system rather than a personal evaluation by them. The number one spot is basically a lineal title. Sittichai -> Superbon -> Marat.
Kaew -> Noiri -> Ezbiri.
 
SuperLuigi said:
Its a mechanical system rather than a personal evaluation by them. The number one spot is basically a lineal title. Sittichai -> Superbon -> Marat.
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If so then why wasn't Endy Semeleer ranked number 1 when he beat superbon?
 
Julius_Caesar said:
If so then why wasn't Endy Semeleer ranked number 1 when he beat superbon?
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Their system is a joke, i've been railing on it for years. They have Jarunchai Kesagym (retired stadium fighter who takes fights in japan) ahead of Petpanomrung for instance.
 
i only care about rankings because im basically only able to do a good fighters wiki page if they are on them or if he won a major title(K-1,Glory) and also the ISKA Wako and blah blah blah
 
I'm sure that I'm not the first person to suggest this, but in a sport like kickboxing with so many promotions on different continents where the top fighters don't all fight each other, a ranking system based on the consensus of the writers or contributors makes a lot more sense to use than a lineal ranking system where a fighter would have to beat another fighter to move up, despite the fact that a lot of the matchups are practically impossible.
 
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