Front kick as a counter

[Vergilius]

So I train in karate and often come up against some real fancy kickers. Today I tried something I've been thinking about for a while, which is using the front foot to stop the opponent from kicking. The thinking is that since I'm using my front foot and is basically just pushing my opponent with it, I can get off faster than they can: as soon as I see my opponents foot leave the ground, I step in a throw that kick. It worked well today, though admittedly the guy I was up against isn't all that fast. I might well caught against better opponents, but maybe it's worth a shot. Thoughts?

 

[dudeguyman]

So I train in karate and often come up against some real fancy kickers. Today I tried something I've been thinking about for a while, which is using the front foot to stop the opponent from kicking. The thinking is that since I'm using my front foot and is basically just pushing my opponent with it, I can get off faster than they can: as soon as I see my opponents foot leave the ground, I step in a throw that kick. It worked well today, though admittedly the guy I was up against isn't all that fast. I might well caught against better opponents, but maybe it's worth a shot. Thoughts?

Are you kicking there leg before they can commit to the kick? Or are you evading and kicking the solar plexus or liver or something? Either way, if it works against a lower level guy you probably could put some time into making the technique more refined and put it into muscle memory and make it work.

 

[Yodsanan]

that's actually pretty standart in muay thai. To use a teep to interrupt the other from kicking.

 

[Frode Falch]

I use the wing chun version in the pocket

 

[dudeguyman]

that's actually pretty standart in muay thai. To use a teep to interrupt the other from kicking.

So is it more of a move you use only on people slower then you?

 

[ARIZE]

So is it more of a move you use only on people slower then you?

Not necessarily... A front teep to the hip, will be faster than a rear roundhouse. If you have an experienced eye to recognize the opponents strike early, the front teep will be fast enough to disrupt him.
Often the small step to the side before a roundhouse is a huge tell for example. So you may even start your motion before he rises his rear leg, making it even quicker.
Also the distance is a benefit for the teeper. A soon as the opponent close the distance to strike, you can already "counter" with the teep...
The most important is not the speed (obviously the faster the better), but the eye... Learn to recognize as soon as possible when the opponent is about to strike, even before the actual motion of the strike... By seen the small adjustments steps, body position etc...

 

[j123]

So is it more of a move you use only on people slower then you?

Nope. It relies alot on timing for sure, but at the end of the day quickest point between A and B is a straight line. Its very similar to a jab

 

[dudeguyman]

Not necessarily... A front teep to the hip, will be faster than a rear roundhouse. If you have an experienced eye to recognize the opponents strike early, the front teep will be fast enough to disrupt him.
Often the small step to the side before a roundhouse is a huge tell for example. So you may even start your motion before he rises his rear leg, making it even quicker.
Also the distance is a benefit for the teeper. A soon as the opponent close the distance to strike, you can already "counter" with the teep...
The most important is not the speed (obviously the faster the better), but the eye... Learn to recognize as soon as possible when the opponent is about to strike, even before the actual motion of the strike... By seen the small adjustments steps, body position etc...

Nope. It relies alot on timing for sure, but at the end of the day quickest point between A and B is a straight line. Its very similar to a jab

Ah timing. Duh i should have known that precision beats power, timing beats speed.

 

[j123]

Ah timing. Duh i should have known that precision beats power, timing beats speed.

Just look at the chest area, then you see some kind of movement, then shoot it out. Of course a more exp'd fighter will be harder, but start from there

 

[dudeguyman]

Just look at the chest area, then you see some kind of movement, then shoot it out. Of course a more exp'd fighter will be harder, but start from there

Yeah thats what my instructor taught me. To focus on the center of mass. I was always doing it so that my eyes didn't look at where i was aiming. Guess i should focus on the shoulders and hips a bit to huh.

 

[j123]

Yeah thats what my instructor taught me. To focus on the center of mass. I was always doing it so that my eyes didn't look at where i was aiming. Guess i should focus on the shoulders and hips a bit to huh.

As long as you can see the "entire canvas" its fine. Upper chest near the collarbone is pretty standard. Still don't look where you want to aim, you have the right idea for that

 

[Vergilius]

Are you kicking there leg before they can commit to the kick? Or are you evading and kicking the solar plexus or liver or something? Either way, if it works against a lower level guy you probably could put some time into making the technique more refined and put it into muscle memory and make it work.

I'm not evading and I'm not aiming for the kick to hurt the opponent. I just try to hit the hip or stomach and push them to disrupt their kick. Like other people have said here, it works sort of like a jab, but, while allowed, it is not a common technique in my style, so I'm wondering whether it will work against all the flashy karate kicks.

 

[dudeguyman]

I'm not evading and I'm not aiming for the kick to hurt the opponent. I just try to hit the hip or stomach and push them to disrupt their kick. Like other people have said here, it works sort of like a jab, but, while allowed, it is not a common technique in my style, so I'm wondering whether it will work against all the flashy karate kicks.

Well, going back and rereading our conversation so far, I saw that you said you step in before anything else. So you could apply that to any strike. I do. maybe throws too if your karate has that.

What do you consider fancy kicks? When I hear that I think spinning. Sometimes when people throw spinning back/hook kicks I'll Just front kick them in the butt mid rotation. you can unbalance them momentarily if you kick hard enough, and unless you're a fucking hulk its a pretty good area to hit if you don't wanna hurt 'em at all. Plus you can say you kicked their ass right after haha.

 

[Yodsanan]

 

[ARIZE]

while allowed, it is not a common technique in my style, so I'm wondering whether it will work against all the flashy karate kicks.

I cross train in TKD ITF. The teep is one of my best weapon against them... And it works pretty well against their flashy kicks... And like dudeguyman said, if you catch them while doing spinning shits, you usually just push their back to unbalance them.
Usually, the first part of the motion for the front leg teep when I use it for a counter, is more of a check kind. I raise the knee a bit more higher than needed for a normal teep. That way, if his kick was too fast for me to counter, I have my midsection protected.
I also spend a lot of time training to have a tight high guard while throwing defensive teeps, and not let my arm swing back... That way, even if his strike is faster than my teep, I'm pretty well covered, both in the mid with the knee, and high with my arms

 

[Pope Leo VII]

dude I love this move.. all about timing but you barely even have to teep them and BOOM go bloody flying through the air

 

[shinkyoku]

So I train in karate and often come up against some real fancy kickers. Today I tried something I've been thinking about for a while, which is using the front foot to stop the opponent from kicking. The thinking is that since I'm using my front foot and is basically just pushing my opponent with it, I can get off faster than they can: as soon as I see my opponents foot leave the ground, I step in a throw that kick. It worked well today, though admittedly the guy I was up against isn't all that fast. I might well caught against better opponents, but maybe it's worth a shot. Thoughts?

Basic technique in knockdown type karate (kyokushin, enshin, ashihara etc etc). Ashi dome -foot stop/check (although most dont bother with that name, only calling it a application of a front or a side kick).
Push high on their support leg or on the hip -always effective, although the rules may frown on it if you are doing point karate. You can "meet" the kick high up on their kicking leg -but that is tricky as it is a moving target -the further out on the leg the trickier.
Most do it at chudan level (chest/stomach level -for you that dont speak karate) to the body and push him off balance. Its a larger target area, but it is also easier for him to defend.

 

[rmongler]