GamerGate News & Discussion v4: The Patriarchy Edition

[in the]

Sodapopinski your work with all of this is just great, thank you.

The worst part is that only a few people end up getting benefits from this, the mediocre critic, the mediocre game developers, the mediocre writers, they get attention and money and of course is now in their best interests that the things that actually could get address stay the same, is now part of their income. I would like to hear the point of view from actual talented female game developers.

Thanks. It's always nice to know it's appreciated. I don't really know 100% why I've sunk so much time into this topic. I guess for multiple reasons: I feel like gamers are getting bullied by some of their own using the same smear tactics I remember hearing when I was a kid, because of the outright lies told by the media (especially, and most shamefully, the MSM), and probably most of all a sort of culture war brewing between creators and critics who want to control the parameters of the creators.

I really think they've made a huge mistake going after TB. He's too high profile, you can't just label him sexist/racist without proof, people will ask to see the evidence (even out of morbid curiosity) and there is none. Even people that dislike TB know enough about him to know that he's not racist/sexist. If they question this, they might start questioning other things..

Oh hell, now because I replied to you, I know how to quote Tweets! Sweet! Yep, it's stupid for them to go after Totalbiscuit. TB has gone out of his way not to say stupid shit. Sure, he has explosions from time to time but anyone would having to deal with cancer and a bunch of people sending you messages hoping the cancer kills you simply because you support GG.

Article about the larger culture war, though not GamerGate in particular:

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2015/01/not-a-very-pc-thing-to-say.html

Part of me thinks that GamerGate is partially responsible for this discussion becoming more common and mainstream. Though I could see it being the other way around; that the perpetually offended have become so annoying that everyone, gamers included, has had enough. Either way, I'm glad it's happening.

Excellent. I want to see the left nip this in the bud before it becomes the left's tea party, but it isn't going to happen. They've infested too many critical points in the left-leaning media.

A small example here - On The Nightly Show, Senior digital editor at Ebony Magazine Jamilah Lemieux kept forcing the "Listen and Believe" narrative over and over, saying that this culture simply doesn't want to listen to women and blah blah blah. Eventually Keith Robinson, a comedian I've loved since the Tough Crowd with Colin Quinn days, pointed out her bullshit by saying that every time Jamilah says anything, the crowd breaks out in applause. (insert unexpected thug life)
Anyway, the point being, if anything, I see SJW/intersectional feminism growing because very few people on the left want to stand up and say anything against it. They will not only be going against the "war on women" narrative the left will be pushing for the 2016 elections, they would have their own fanbase rabidly turning against them. It would be #cancelcolbert on hyper steroids.

It's a culture war that is seemingly growing, and I find that concerning.

 

[in the]

Alright, so here's the harassment Anita supposedly faces on a weekly basis (though I'm guessing this is completely cherrypicking a timeline since it was after the Nightline piece). Note that harassment has to come from a single, repeating source. I didn't look at each and every source, but I didn't see one repeat offender. So it might be pestering, but it's not necessarily harassment. Many of those Tweets are just telling her to fuck off. That's nothing at all. Seriously, that's harassment? Yeah right. The ones telling her to die or hoping she does? Yeah, those are bullshit and I'm in agreement with Anita that those messages are terrible. Still, she tries to spin it as if the only reason she gets these messages is because she's a woman. Sorry honey, being a public figure sucks and I guarantee you someone like Brandon Bostick (whose blunder cost the Green Bay Packers a chance of getting to the Super Bowl) received waaay more hate than you. It's not because of your gender, it's because you say stupid shit (though I still believe she has every right to say stupid shit without being threatened).



Oh Leagon, the writer of that article you posted in Post 961 is now being targeted by SJWs.
Edit - I just HAD to post the article written by Omar Mahmood mentioned in that NYMag piece: Do the Left Thing

It was one of the coldest days of this winter past, and I was hurrying along the Diag to class. The blistering cold did not turn my eyes from all the white privilege falling around my. All those white snowflakes falling thick upon the autumn leaves, burying their colors. Majoring in womyn’s studies, I’ve learned that oppression comes in many forms. Sometimes we fail to notice it because it’s just everywhere – just like that white snow.

As I walked, I slipped on a patch of wet leaves lining the steps of the Hatcher, and I fell forward headfirst onto the steps of the library. If it hadn’t been for the left hand that I thrust out right before my fall, I would have ended up just another statistic in the war on colored people. As it were, a white cis-gendered hetero upper-class man came down the steps just as I was falling. He looked at me with that white man’s burden face that I see too often on this racialized campus.

“Cold, isn’t it?”

Behind his words I sensed a patronizing sneer, as if he expected me to be a spokespersyn for my whole race. He offered his hand to help me up, and I thought to myself how this might be a manifestation of the patriarchy patronizing me. I doubt he would’ve said those violent words had I been white, but he would take any opportunity to patronize a colored m@n or womyn. People on this campus always box others in based on race. Triggered, I waved his hand aside and got up of my own accord.

He was taken aback. Suddenly I felt I was taking back some of that lost agency that colonialism had robbed my people of. I felt like Aamir Khan in Lagaan. That’s right, that white man wasn’t about to tax me. I didn’t even want to be that white. I turned on my heels and showed him my back.

He shouted after me, “I was just trying to do the right thing!”

The right thing… The right thing… I became so aware at that moment of the left hand that I had thrust out before falling, and suddenly my humanity was reduced to my handydnyss. The words rang in my eardrums, and my blood throbbed. This was the microaggression that broke the gender-neutral camel’s back. But unlike other microaggressions, this one triggered a shift in my worldview. All this while, I had been obsessed only with the color on this campus. All of a sudden, though, that became a side issue. All those race-based microaggressions now seemed trivial. I had, I realized, forgotten to think intersectionally.

#GamerGate Sped Up The Demise Of Video Game Journalism - William Usher

After reading this, Ryulong's ban was a long time coming.

 

[Falsedawn]

After reading this, Ryulong's ban was a long time coming.

I think I just got AIDS.

A group of dogmatic radicals condemning an online encyclopedia for having the audacity to attempt to be objective and calling THAT partisanship? What in the fuck?

I just...I dont even know how to stop myself from dying of contact stupidity.

 

[in the]

^Yep. It's insane. I keep hearing how Ryulong and NBSB (and three other mods) were keeping the GamerGate article and Wikipedia a "safe space" for people. Oh God, I'm so sick of this "space" nonsense.

Playing on the post about the Supanova Pop Culture Expo and how some people are trying to get them to rescind Adam Baldwin's offer to appear, take a look at a few posts from the Facebook page.

SJW - So what y'all are saying is that you care more about getting a photo with one man than the safety and comfort of thousands of atendees.
Like

 

[Falsedawn]

^Yep. It's insane. I keep hearing how Ryulong and NBSB (and three other mods) were keeping the GamerGate article and Wikipedia a "safe space" for people. Oh God, I'm so sick of this "space" nonsense.

Playing on the post about the Supanova Pop Culture Expo and how some people are trying to get them to rescind Adam Baldwin's offer to appear, take a look at a few posts from the Facebook page.



These people live on the moon. They're lunatics. But that's what happens with "safe spaces." Safe spaces become echo chambers where dissent isn't allowed and is shunned/mocked. Echo chambers become bubble worlds where even the most ridiculous, unsupported claim is axiomatically believed. Then you have extremists. Safe spaces might be well intentioned, but they eventually lead to radical fundamentalists.

Keep in mind this is only a segment of the "safe space" conversation on that Facebook post.

I think this is the eternal plight of the left, that you cannot force acceptance to happen. I post in a lot of race threads, and I feel extremely strongly about equal treatment with regards to race, but I know deep down that you can't force someone to agree with you. The world just might be a better place if you're right, but free will is one of the paramount virtues of a free country. All you can do is try to educate people and hope they care enough to look into it more.

An interesting note is that these extremists are willing to identify as "academics" all while discarding the most important aspect of academia, that being research. You know, scrutiny. So long as you listen and believe and shut up like a good lemming, we'll all get along fine. For someone who actually likes to be well reasoned, the acceptance of these people with little issue is a political foundation shaker.

 

[in the]

Dan Golding penned one of those "Gamers are Dead" articles. Amazing how his work looks when you replace "gamer" with "Jew."

You knew this was coming. Funny, Jimmy Wales seems to align with AGGros, but that's not going to stop them from tarnishing the image of his website. Let's see if he capitulates or finally understands what GG supporters have gone through for the past half year (thanks in part to his website's article about GamerGate). As for Ryulong, I have no idea what to think. Now it's possible he won't be site banned, even after his tantrum yesterday. This whole ordeal finally makes me realize why most college professors won't allow Wikipedia to be a source on a research paper/essay. So Ryulong might not be site banned but banned from the GG article. Ryulong is clearly deranged yet Wiki doesn't have the balls to get rid of him. Keep in mind he was funded by AGGros over at GamerGhazi. Conflicts of interests don't mean much to Wiki, I guess. Who knows if this is even true.

Edit - LMAO. I can't tell if this is a troll job or done by a butthurt SJW Wiki editor. Poe's Law indeed. Now they know how GamerGate feels.

M'lady, I don't consider stats that go against my narrative.

 

[Plissken]

These people live on the moon. They're lunatics. But that's what happens with "safe spaces." Safe spaces become echo chambers where dissent isn't allowed and is shunned/mocked. Echo chambers become bubble worlds where even the most ridiculous, unsupported claim is axiomatically believed. Then you have extremists. Safe spaces might be well intentioned, but they eventually lead to radical fundamentalists.

Keep in mind this is only a segment of the "safe space" conversation on that Facebook post.

Considering that definition they should be told that they are never really safe, not even from their own thoughts.

 

[in the]

I guess it's over.

I realize that people can change, but this is a 180.
Leigh Alexander (2007) - COLUMN: 'The Aberrant Gamer': In Defense of Breast Physics
Her response in the comments:

Excellent points made by all, even (and especially) where they disagree with mine. Despite the fact that I find it enormously valid and valuable to examine the psychology of games, perhaps paradoxically I also don't weigh them any more heavily than any other entertainment medium; I don't believe that games should be expected to present a rational or equitable standard of human appearance or behavior.

We do look to video game characters for representations of ourselves -- but I think that this extends beyond basics like visuals. I think there are a variety of emotional touchstones that we can use, and implying that a video game character's appearance makes a real man or woman feel under-represented or insecure isn't giving enough credit to a human being's rationally-founded sense of self.

In other words, it's a fiction we care about, but it's still a fiction; I don't believe that, for example, there always need to be gay characters because there are straight ones, or fat characters because there are skinny ones, or that there's a problem if all of the characters involved in a fantasy scenario are gorgeous or unrealistic.

Would it be nice if we had more games that were easy for the Everyman to connect to -- average-looking heroes, the non-violent and unglamorous? Sure -- I think that's a lot of the appeal of, say, Silent Hill. But does that discredit the sensationalized entertainment forms that we've got already? I don't think so.

In other words, I believe that the audience understands that the visceral brawn or whip-waisted oversexuality of game characters is fictional and doesn't reflect on them. If they don't, I'm not so sure it's the game's fault in that case.

 

[Leagon]

https://twitter.com/GamingAndPandas/status/560538633720324098

^Gay, middle eastern woman cosplays as Vivian James (the GamerGate mascot, of sorts) at a gaming convention and gets harassed, threatened, called a dude, etc.

So, I went over to GamerGhazi earlier today. I see so much echo chamberism on their side, that I was worried we may be experiencing the same thing. I mean, we're only getting pro-GG info; any terrible things happening to Anti-GG probably wouldn't come up here.

They have this long FAQ about GG and I read through about half of it with as open a mind as I could muster. I'm glad to say that the first thing I read actually poked a legitimate factual hole in the GG narrative (that Grayson wrote a positive article about Zoe for Kotaku 'case they were banging. They showed only one Kotaku article from Grayson that mentioned Depression Quest and it was before the alleged banging period). But then the next thing I read pretty much contradicted the first thing (they posted a link to a Rock, Paper, Shotgun article by Grayson in which he praised Depression Quest. This was during the alleged banging period) and that got me a bit confused. Then the next thing didn't have any source at all to back it up. Then the next thing was a link that contradicted the assertion they were making by posting the link in the first place.

I honestly, honestly, wanted to see that they were being pretty reasonable over there. But they're not. It's tribalism or, at best, sports team rivalry. Patriots fans won't admit to deflategate and even if they do, they say it's not a big deal. Because it's not about what's right or wrong, it's about loyalty to their team.

I still think there are a lot of unsavory characters in GG--even amongst the leadership--but the opposing side (at least as represented by Ghazi; I don't know if they have another place they congregate) really has no interest in impartiality or truth-seeking. Not sure how you can argue with someone who doesn't intend to be honest.

 

[Falsedawn]

I actually read the entire ArbCom proposed ruling, and Beeblebrox seemed the most well reasoned out of all of them. Newyorkbrad came out wishy washy and Guerillero clearly was in it for the tank.

That salt though. Goodness.

 

[ManUnderMask]

I've heard, and I quite agree, that Wikipedia is only good for trivia. I use it to read articles on pro wrestling and MMA orgs and get title histories because Wikipedia sometimes tends to be more user friendly and better organized than the actual websites (King of the Cage doesn't even have title histories on their website).

To use it for information on important topics is stupid.

 

[Count Zero]

https://twitter.com/GamingAndPandas/status/560538633720324098

^Gay, middle eastern woman cosplays as Vivian James (the GamerGate mascot, of sorts) at a gaming convention and gets harassed, threatened, called a dude, etc.

Do we have any proof this person is who they say they are ? I looked through the reddit comments and their twitter feed, not seeing any pics of them or the costume on them. Just one of a jacket on the floor.

 

[in the]

https://twitter.com/GamingAndPandas/status/560538633720324098

^Gay, middle eastern woman cosplays as Vivian James (the GamerGate mascot, of sorts) at a gaming convention and gets harassed, threatened, called a dude, etc.

So, I went over to GamerGhazi earlier today. I see so much echo chamberism on their side, that I was worried we may be experiencing the same thing. I mean, we're only getting pro-GG info; any terrible things happening to Anti-GG probably wouldn't come up here.

They have this long FAQ about GG and I read through about half of it with as open a mind as I could muster. I'm glad to say that the first thing I read actually poked a legitimate factual hole in the GG narrative (that Grayson wrote a positive article about Zoe for Kotaku 'case they were banging. They showed only one Kotaku article from Grayson that mentioned Depression Quest and it was before the alleged banging period). But then the next thing I read pretty much contradicted the first thing (they posted a link to a Rock, Paper, Shotgun article by Grayson in which he praised Depression Quest. This was during the alleged banging period) and that got me a bit confused. Then the next thing didn't have any source at all to back it up. Then the next thing was a link that contradicted the assertion they were making by posting the link in the first place.

I honestly, honestly, wanted to see that they were being pretty reasonable over there. But they're not. It's tribalism or, at best, sports team rivalry. Patriots fans won't admit to deflategate and even if they do, they say it's not a big deal. Because it's not about what's right or wrong, it's about loyalty to their team.

I still think there are a lot of unsavory characters in GG--even amongst the leadership--but the opposing side (at least as represented by Ghazi; I don't know if they have another place they congregate) really has no interest in impartiality or truth-seeking. Not sure how you can argue with someone who doesn't intend to be honest.

I did my due dilligence as well. I even wish we had diversity in this thread, but I also know we're not a primary source for GG so it wouldn't have much impact.

I'm glad I dropped my pretenses and reevaluated my stance. I didn't come into GG at the very start. In fact, at the very beginning, GG seemed like a nerd fight to me. I didn't understand what was happening until I read a few articles, articles I thought were a joke:
Straight White Male: The Lowest Difficulty Setting There Is
25 invisible benefits men get when gaming
Idiots fight to keep a medieval game white
And pretty much anything Patricia Hernandez writes.

Those articles, along with the Gamers are Dead articles, tipped the scales for me. I knew something was wrong at that point.

Despite that, it's good for people to get away from their "side" and see what's happening across the fence. Your viewpoints will be better rounded and you might even learn a thing or two.

I'm not above agreeing with AGGros. In fact, I found myself finally agreeing with something that Anita tweeted. Felt like the world might end.

I do think a few things in the gaming community will run its course, and for the better. However, the death/rape threats aren't just the gaming community, but people in general, the population at large. So I don't expect every gamer to nail his/her wrists on the cross for something a handful of idiots are doing.

The problem is that it's really, really hard to chat with an AGGro who isn't firmly entrenched in the "listen and believe" mantra. If we can't even agree about the fundamentals of GG (ethics/agenda pushing versus transmisogynistic scum), it makes having even a little bit of dialogue extremely difficult.

I'm not saying GG is perfect, and there are definitely villains on the side of GG. But as a whole, GG is exponentially more reasonable than AGG and way, way more diverse. It's really hard reasoning with people who elevate their identity politics beyond a fundamentalist level; everything must conform to their world view or it is automatically rejected.

As for Grayson and Zoe, from my understanding, there was a rumor at the beginning of this that Zoe slept with Grayson for a positive review. When that was disproven hours later, people let it go. Well, not everyone. AGGros took that as proof the GG movement (though the term GG hadn't been coined yet) were a bunch of misogynists looking to lie about a female dev because of misogyny. The truth is, we don't know how long they had known each other professionally, personally, or sexually. Even if the current narrative is true (that Grayson slept with her after writing the Kotaku article), the time span is funky and makes it look like he promoted her game to get sex, not the other way round. But they've continued to push that narrative simply because it was misinformation at the beginning. Grayson never reviewed Depression Quest. He merely promoted it.

 

[Leagon]

Do we have any proof this person is who they say they are ? I looked through the reddit comments and their twitter feed, not seeing any pics of them or the costume on them. Just one of a jacket on the floor.

Good call. I should have mentioned that when I posted. We know someone was walking around dressed as Vivian James from all the tweets, but we don't know that this was the person. The fact that the tweets are not from the actual supposed person and are, in fact, all from someone who claims to be "close" to the person makes it a bit suspect as well.

The problem is that it's really, really hard to chat with an AGGro who isn't firmly entrenched in the "listen and believe" mantra. If we can't even agree about the fundamentals of GG (ethics/agenda pushing versus transmisogynistic scum), it makes having even a little bit of dialogue extremely difficult.

This. So much this. It sucks. I follow a lot of the people on Twitter and for a while I tried to follow Sarah Butts and a few other anti-GG accounts here and there so that I could really be aware of both sides. But I had to unfollow them because nothing they were posting was reasonable. It was just whining and unverifiable attacks and mischaracterizations. To be fair, I had to unfollow Oliver Campbell for his tendency to rant, but even that was only a minor annoyance. The Kool-aid is fuckin thick over there. I don't know how to learn about their side without running into the crazies.

 

[Devout Pessimist]

Spoiler

Good call. I should have mentioned that when I posted. We know someone was walking around dressed as Vivian James from all the tweets, but we don't know that this was the person. The fact that the tweets are not from the actual supposed person and are, in fact, all from someone who claims to be "close" to the person makes it a bit suspect as well.



This. So much this. It sucks. I follow a lot of the people on Twitter and for a while I tried to follow Sarah Butts and a few other anti-GG accounts here and there so that I could really be aware of both sides. But I had to unfollow them because nothing they were posting was reasonable. It was just whining and unverifiable attacks and mischaracterizations.

To be fair, I had to unfollow Oliver Campbell for his tendency to rant,

Spoiler

but even that was only a minor annoyance. The Kool-aid is fuckin thick over there. I don't know how to learn about their side without running into the crazies.

I stopped listening to Oliver as well. His 5 hour YouTube chats are just a little too long.


I learn everything from this alpha male now:

:icon_lol:

(Warning: The guy starts yelling about 1 minute in.)

 

[in the]

I like Oliver Campbell and there was a time early on when I was learning about things that I would drop a few hours on his streams, but I don't have time for it any longer. I like things condensed. I like Sargon of Akkad for that matter, though he's not as good live as he is when he has time to work on something (take the stream with Geordie Tait - asking Tait right of the bat if he belongs to a cult... wtf). I still read Cernovich from time to time but IIRC, after the UVA rape scandal that wasn't real, Cernovich had a fellow lawyer friend (Charles Johnson?) who said he was going to reveal who "Jackie" was, the girl in the Rolling Stones article who we now know was lying the whole time. But he outed the wrong person, which was a really shitty thing to do. So I still listen to some of what Cernovich says, but with a grain of salt.

Well KIA (for whatever it's worth) has verified that Vivian James cosplay story. I personally don't give someone else's two shits for Vivian James, but some people like her as a mascot. I will just wait on the story to develop.

KIA mods also verified to the best of their ability the report of the AGGro feminist macing GG supporters at a school. This is supposedly a video from someone who was there:

But nothing is conclusively verified as of yet (or that I've seen). Some conflicting reports. Of course MM already has a video out about it.

From KIA:

Some of the stuff Meowstic and I were sent was personal, and must remain confidential, but I can compile the proof offered in the 8chan thread.

Incident happened at Schoolcraft College in Michigan. We were provided identification to verify that the OP is in fact a student at Schoolcraft.
"The event was called School Daze. Happened around 2pm Its an average college located in the middle of a medium sized upper class area." This can be verified on Schoolcraft's site.
"[Campus police] had been informed, in fact the school is more pissed at the reason why the lady had the mace. Apparently the 'Womens Protection and Defense' Club was giving out mace to Women who claimed they needed protection. Legal action is being done and that club is now banned from ever participating in the events." Video interviews confirm this.
One person was sent to the hospital. Also confirmed by video interviews. More info should be available about this, later.
Facebook conversation with college's anime club president, verifying that there was an incident.
Video interviews with the Project Playhem owner and Schoolcraft faculty member.

I'm sure the media will drop everything to report this actual harassment and violence against GG! Seriously, at least one person had to be sent to the hospital. To be fair, we don't know if the attack was even GG-related. We just know that if the roles had been reversed, it would be proof that we're a misogynistic hate group. This post will supposedly have updated evidence.

Punter salt. Hasn't been this salty since kicking to Devin Hester.

 

[Slobodan]

I stopped listening to Oliver as well. His 5 hour YouTube chats are just a little too long.


I learn everything from this alpha male now:

:icon_lol:

(Warning: The guy starts yelling about 1 minute in.)

He doesn't look like a child molester at all...

 

[MMA04]

Spoiler

https://twitter.com/GamingAndPandas/status/560538633720324098

^Gay, middle eastern woman cosplays as Vivian James (the GamerGate mascot, of sorts) at a gaming convention and gets harassed, threatened, called a dude, etc.

So, I went over to GamerGhazi earlier today. I see so much echo chamberism on their side, that I was worried we may be experiencing the same thing. I mean, we're only getting pro-GG info; any terrible things happening to Anti-GG probably wouldn't come up here.

They have this long FAQ about GG and I read through about half of it with as open a mind as I could muster. I'm glad to say that the first thing I read actually poked a legitimate factual hole in the GG narrative (that Grayson wrote a positive article about Zoe for Kotaku 'case they were banging. They showed only one Kotaku article from Grayson that mentioned Depression Quest and it was before the alleged banging period). But then the next thing I read pretty much contradicted the first thing (they posted a link to a Rock, Paper, Shotgun article by Grayson in which he praised Depression Quest. This was during the alleged banging period) and that got me a bit confused. Then the next thing didn't have any source at all to back it up. Then the next thing was a link that contradicted the assertion they were making by posting the link in the first place.

I honestly, honestly, wanted to see that they were being pretty reasonable over there. But they're not. It's tribalism or, at best, sports team rivalry. Patriots fans won't admit to deflategate and even if they do, they say it's not a big deal. Because it's not about what's right or wrong, it's about loyalty to their team.

I still think there are a lot of unsavory characters in GG--even amongst the leadership--but the opposing side (at least as represented by Ghazi; I don't know if they have another place they congregate) really has no interest in impartiality or truth-seeking. Not sure how you can argue with someone who doesn't intend to be honest.

Spoiler

I did my due dilligence as well. I even wish we had diversity in this thread, but I also know we're not a primary source for GG so it wouldn't have much impact.

I'm glad I dropped my pretenses and reevaluated my stance. I didn't come into GG at the very start. In fact, at the very beginning, GG seemed like a nerd fight to me. I didn't understand what was happening until I read a few articles, articles I thought were a joke:
Straight White Male: The Lowest Difficulty Setting There Is
25 invisible benefits men get when gaming
Idiots fight to keep a medieval game white
And pretty much anything Patricia Hernandez writes.

Those articles, along with the Gamers are Dead articles, tipped the scales for me. I knew something was wrong at that point.

Despite that, it's good for people to get away from their "side" and see what's happening across the fence. Your viewpoints will be better rounded and you might even learn a thing or two.

I'm not above agreeing with AGGros. In fact, I found myself finally agreeing with something that Anita tweeted. Felt like the world might end.

I do think a few things in the gaming community will run its course, and for the better. However, the death/rape threats aren't just the gaming community, but people in general, the population at large. So I don't expect every gamer to nail his/her wrists on the cross for something a handful of idiots are doing.

The problem is that it's really, really hard to chat with an AGGro who isn't firmly entrenched in the "listen and believe" mantra. If we can't even agree about the fundamentals of GG (ethics/agenda pushing versus transmisogynistic scum), it makes having even a little bit of dialogue extremely difficult.

I'm not saying GG is perfect, and there are definitely villains on the side of GG. But as a whole, GG is exponentially more reasonable than AGG and way, way more diverse. It's really hard reasoning with people who elevate their identity politics beyond a fundamentalist level; everything must conform to their world view or it is automatically rejected.

As for Grayson and Zoe, from my understanding, there was a rumor at the beginning of this that Zoe slept with Grayson for a positive review. When that was disproven hours later, people let it go. Well, not everyone. AGGros took that as proof the GG movement (though the term GG hadn't been coined yet) were a bunch of misogynists looking to lie about a female dev because of misogyny. The truth is, we don't know how long they had known each other professionally, personally, or sexually. Even if the current narrative is true (that Grayson slept with her after writing the Kotaku article), the time span is funky and makes it look like he promoted her game to get sex, not the other way round. But they've continued to push that narrative simply because it was misinformation at the beginning. Grayson never reviewed Depression Quest. He merely promoted it.

Interestingly enough, I've also been looking more into the anti gg posts for a better understanding of their position. Everything that they say is logical given the acceptance of their basic premises which I categorically reject, that gg is about keeping women out of gaming and harassment. All in all I'm fairly unimpressed with their arguments and logical deductions. I don't think there is much gray area here.

I disagree with you about Anita's tweet soda. It's difficult to describe the comedic process, but a large aspect of it is grouping words and ideas that don't make sense to be grouped together logically. In other words, saying you will murder someone during a game works in a comedic sense since it's a tacit recognition that gaming is safe and that the idea of someone being physically harmed is ridiculous. Saying you will murder someone you don't know in a dark alley isn't funny because someone being harmed in such a scenario is highly realistic.

A large part of comedy is derived from absurdity, and part of that absurdity is venturing into the world of taboo words and thoughts since the expression of those words and thoughts is such a rare and often dangerous occurrence. A large part of the comedy derived from expressing those words and ideas comes from the absurdity of someone who knows the ramifications and implications of the words using them anyways in a blatant disregard of the consequences. It's comedy derived from shock; "I'm laughing because I can't believe he said that thing he isn't supposed to say!". Hence, in an ironic sense, the fact that children aren't suppose to reference the ideas in Anita's tweet is what draws people to make the jokes in the first place.

The systematic societal wide censorship of words and ideas is, to me, the root cause of the racial epithets I see hurled in places of unregulated speech. I don't think it's an issue of racial hatred so much as younger kids having an outlet to voice that which is taboo and forbidden. It comes part and parcel with teenagers who are beginning to "test the fences of their enclosures" as they move closer to the freedom of adulthood and away from the constraints of childhood. I don't use these words and tend to turn off p2p chats to avoid them, but I also understand that leading a campaign against these words is likely what made them so prevalent in the first place.

That is why, despite having a tragically intimate knowledge of the crimes in her tweet that are used in a cavalier manner during the conversations of gamers (and many other relatively safe and sheltered communities like sports for instance), I'm rarely bothered by that type of language. Words have only the power given to them by the underlying ideas they are meant to convey and I'm intelligent enough to understand when someone is actually threatening my safety, or at least expressing the wishful sentiment that I come to harm, and when someone evokes the same language in a comedic manner that implicitly reaffirms my safety. It's the same reason why I use some of the most hateful language I know with the people I love the most while sharing a laugh. It's also, in my experience, why many white knight/SJW types seem to have problems forming real, organic relationships with the demographics that they deem necessary to protect. Being afraid that the use of certain words may trigger someone different than you implies they aren't intelligent enough to understand the meaning of your words. Interactions become artificial and guarded.

Whenever something is banned without truly understanding the root cause of its existence, you run the risk of that root cause manifesting itself in other unpredicted and often times more dangerous ways. The law of unintended consequences.

 

[fdswer]

Not related to GG but I thought it was a good look at the type of people GG is facing

http://letsplaysocialjustice.tumblr.com/post/109020691954/captoring-captoring-mapsontheweb-the

 

[in the]

http://modefive.blogspot.co.uk/2015/01/satire-celebrities-to-women-of.html

Jimmy Wales is getting a taste of what GG has gone through.

I just wanted to see how far the pepper spray would go defense.

...

We'll agree to disagree. I agree with Anita. Though I find her inability to answer any legitimate criticism highly ironic. A pop culture critic who can't take or address legit criticism.

Anyway, the death and rape threats are being said on the internet, not in a game, so even if I was to accept they were ok in game (I'd rather not hear them but it's not a big deal, either - the proper way to deal with them is to mute the player and/or kick his/her ass in the game), it still wouldn't invalidate her point. Most of all and even worse, she uses those threats as a reason why she's needed, and non-gamers lap it up. People who send her stupid threats are playing right into her hands of being an oppressed double x chromosomer, making her status go from unknown movie critic to feminist deity who critiques games.

Just found this video from two years before GG and I'm amazed how much I agree with it. Not all of it, but at least the part of gamers going after Anita creating a monster.

Not related to GG but I thought it was a good look at the type of people GG is facing

http://letsplaysocialjustice.tumblr.com/post/109020691954/captoring-captoring-mapsontheweb-the

I like this one better:
Stormfront or SJW?