Tech Gaming Hardware discussion (& Hardware Sales) thread

jefferz said:
Just from the upgrade perspective, Ryzen to me makes it the obvious choice. If Intel continues their trend, the 10th series stuff will require a new board. Ryzen should have at least another release in their boards.
Intel still wins in IPC, there's no denying that. The AMD options aren't that far behind though.

Techdeals just did a video showing off Intel's IPC lead with the i3-8350k. In certain games that only use 2 or 4 cores like LOL, Overwatch, Rocket League, and other esports titles the 8350k will beat anything that AMD offers in the desktop platform. But when you switch to modern AAA games that use more than 4 cores, AMD stuff will beat the pants off of it. Even if I only played the games listed, would I buy the 8350k? Definitely not.
Click to expand...
I hadn't looked at prices in a few weeks. The R7-1700 is actually cheaper at retail than the i5-8400 now? My goodness, eating a 70% overall inferiority at stock in today's post-core expansion market, an inferior stock cooler, the inability to overclock, and a MoBo socket with inferior longevity while paying more...that is rough.

Nevertheless, maybe you can link that Techdeals vid, because I couldn't find it, and the i3-8350K and i5-8400 still run circles around the R7-1700 in almost every game ever made. They were already hammering the R7-1700 at stock in even the best mutlicore scalers (DX12 and Vulkan AAA titles) from late 2017; you know, the benchmark all-stars like Ashes of the Singularity which are probably benchmarked more than played. For pure gamers it's really hard to argue against them even on value.

I watched the Gamer's Nexus Cooler Master H500P review. I'm not sure what Steve did to irritate you with that video. Are you sure you didn't mean the original H500P review? He was really anal retentive in the H500P one (about the panel materials, the lack of clasping, build quality, etc). It seems like he let his mostly trivial pet peeves fill the first half of the video, and was sort of subjecting the viewer to the same punishing unease he personally experienced as part of that tick. I could understand if that review rubs you the wrong way.
 
I'm still figuring out if I can get a HDR signal from my GPU.
I read that when multiple screens are connect, all screens must be HDR compattible.
 
Madmick said:
I hadn't looked at prices in a few weeks. The R7-1700 is actually cheaper at retail than the i5-8400 now? My goodness, eating a 70% overall inferiority at stock in today's post-core expansion market, an inferior stock cooler, the inability to overclock, and a MoBo socket with inferior longevity while paying more...that is rough.

Nevertheless, maybe you can link that Techdeals vid, because I couldn't find it, and the i3-8350K and i5-8400 still run circles around the R7-1700 in almost every game ever made. They were already hammering the R7-1700 at stock in even the best mutlicore scalers (DX12 and Vulkan AAA titles) from late 2017; you know, the benchmark all-stars like Ashes of the Singularity which are probably benchmarked more than played. For pure gamers it's really hard to argue against them even on value.

I watched the Gamer's Nexus Cooler Master H500P review. I'm not sure what Steve did to irritate you with that video. Are you sure you didn't mean the original H500P review? He was really anal retentive in the H500P one (about the panel materials, the lack of clasping, build quality, etc). It seems like he let his mostly trivial pet peeves fill the first half of the video, and was sort of subjecting the viewer to the same punishing unease he personally experienced as part of that tick. I could understand if that review rubs you the wrong way.
Click to expand...

The 1700 is on sale right now on Newegg for $180. 1600's are on sale for $145.

here's the video. it's not a direct comparison but it's easy to take his results and compare it to his Ryzen videos.


It wasn't the initial H500P review I didn't like, I'm glad someone finally brought up how cases are going in the wrong direction. My problem is that in the videos after that, he continually brought it up for no reason other than to bash Cooler Master over it.
 
Madmick said:
No, the i7-8700k was a 6c/12t processor, and the i5-8600K was a 6c/6t processor.

The defining difference between the Core i5 & Core i7 series since their release has been that the i7's hyperthreaded while the i5's did not, so with this 9th Gen release on the LGA 1155 socket:
  • i9 has supplanted i7
  • i7 has supplanted i5
  • i5 occupies a new middle ground that previously didn't exist because there wasn't so many core offerings
That Intel 8th Gen was Intel's first core shift since the advent of their Core series itself in 2008. So this core shift was simply massive to overall performance, and now we've gotten yet another shift in the consecutive generation (which is actually just a generational refresh): no clearer indication of the impact of Ryzen. Simultaneously, the boost to Turbo clocks has been just as significant. Study the below:

f46383d5-4971-493f-9a9c-f448f301a243.png


If you start with Sandy Bridge, Intel walked up the All-Core Turbo from 3.6GHz to 4.4GHz (+800MHz) in a 6 year period. Suddenly, in the past 1 1/2 years, they have doubled the cores while increasing that all-core Turbo another +300MHz.

Simultaneously the progression of AAA gaming demands has slowed greatly. This 9900K is going to have an extremely long relevance. Expect it to grow as long in the tooth as that legendary Sandy Bridge 2700K itself, but with no manual overclocking required.

That doesn't really matter anymore. What matters is how quickly you can run a certain stick of RAM on your motherboard, and the Intel motherboards maintain RAM overclocks well.
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I guess what also continuously confuses me is intels desktop and laptop series cpu’s Don’t share anything but names with each other.

As the 8th gen I-5 I have is 4c/8td and the desktop 8th gen I-5 is 6c/6td. They shouldn’t even be called the same thing.
 
jefferz said:
The 1700 is on sale right now on Newegg for $180. 1600's are on sale for $145.

here's the video. it's not a direct comparison but it's easy to take his results and compare it to his Ryzen videos.


It wasn't the initial H500P review I didn't like, I'm glad someone finally brought up how cases are going in the wrong direction. My problem is that in the videos after that, he continually brought it up for no reason other than to bash Cooler Master over it.
Click to expand...

You can get a 1600 for 129.99 at microcenter right now and take and additional 30.00 off if you buy a mobo too. So you could get one for 99.00. The 2200g r3’s have dropped to 79.99 there now but are not eligible for the 30.00 off with mobo(but have some in combos priced this way).

The 1700x is 179.99 at micro + 30.00 off with mobo purchase.
1800x for 189.99-30.00 for mobo and the 2600x for 189.99(159.99 non x)-30.00 for mobo purchase
 
90 50 said:
I guess what also continuously confuses me is intels desktop and laptop series cpu’s Don’t share anything but names with each other.

As the 8th gen I-5 I have is 4c/8td and the desktop 8th gen I-5 is 6c/6td. They shouldn’t even be called the same thing.
Click to expand...
Well they have 2 different versions of the 8400 for laptops. The 8400B is 6/6 and clocked at 2.8 like my beloved 8400 desktop. You have the 8400H.
 
X-Pac Rules said:
Well they have 2 different versions of the 8400 for laptops. The 8400B is 6/6 and clocked at 2.8 like my beloved 8400 desktop. You have the 8400H.
Click to expand...
This is one of those processors that only exists on paper.
90 50 said:
I guess what also continuously confuses me is intels desktop and laptop series cpu’s Don’t share anything but names with each other.

As the 8th gen I-5 I have is 4c/8td and the desktop 8th gen I-5 is 6c/6td. They shouldn’t even be called the same thing.
Click to expand...
Learn suffixes. That's Intel's indicator.

For laptops, they break up generations of the same architecture into a lot of different brackets targeting different niches because of all the different form factors and needs that laptops address. For example, gamer laptops have awful battery life from their high TDP, because gamers need the performance, and don't care about battery life, while Ultrabooks designed for dedicated travel tend to focus on a very low TDPs in order that they can maximize battery life at a cost to performance.
  • HK: Highest powered monsters (rare and very expensive; workstations and monster gaming laptops)
  • HQ/H: High-powered mass produced processors (gaming laptops)
  • U: Half the cores, lower-powered variants, mainstream market (almost all laptops under $1K, but also some more expensive laptops focused on travel/battery will have some i7-U variants)
  • Y: Very low-powered processors that are much more likely to be fanless (aimed at low-end ultrabooks, chromebooks, hybrid tablets, etc)

Those "B" (65W) processors would go in the top bracket along with the "HK" processors, but so far, I see no sign of them making their way to market, and Intel seems to launch a lot of laptop CPUs like that. They were launched at the same time as other Coffee Lake mobile processors that are already out en masse. The suffixes above are ones that you'll actually see on shelves.

As I mentioned in the other thread, the i7-8750H is currently the most powerful mass-produced laptop gaming processor. The bestselling Acer Predator Helios 300 (2018 Version) that couples it with the GTX 1060 6GB (and 16GB RAM + 256GB SSD) is $1199.

That's the standard to beat atm.
 
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Madmick said:
This is one of those processors that only exists on paper.

Learn suffixes. That's Intel's indicator.

For laptops, they break up generations of the same architecture into a lot of different brackets targeting different niches because of all the different form factors and needs that laptops address. For example, gamer laptops have awful battery life from their high TDP, because gamers need the performance, and don't care about battery life, while Ultrabooks designed for dedicated travel tend to focus on a very low TDPs in order that they can maximize battery life at a cost to performance.
  • HK: Highest powered monsters (rare and very expensive; workstations and monster gaming laptops)
  • HQ/H: High-powered mass produced processors (gaming laptops)
  • U: Half the cores, lower-powered variants, mainstream market (almost all laptops under $1K, but also some more expensive laptops focused on travel/battery will have some i7-U variants)
  • Y: Very low-powered processors that are much more likely to be fanless (aimed at low-end ultrabooks, chromebooks, hybrid tablets, etc)

Those "B" (65W) processors would go in the top bracket along with the "HK" processors, but so far, I see no sign of them making their way to market, and Intel seems to launch a lot of laptop CPUs like that. They were launched at the same time as other Coffee Lake mobile processors that are already out en masse. The suffixes above are ones that you'll actually see on shelves.

As I mentioned in the other thread, the i7-8750H is currently the most powerful mass-produced laptop gaming processor. The bestselling Acer Predator Helios 300 (2018 Version) that couples it with the GTX 1060 6GB (and 16GB RAM + 256GB SSD) is $1199.

That's the standard to beat atm.
Click to expand...
The biggest problem I have with “gaming “ laptops like that today don’t seem to have enough out put ports.

If I were to drop 1100.00 on something like that I’d like for it to have at least two display port outs.

I really miss the docking stations my old dells had.

Pop it out and take like laptop , home or office drop in docking station and have everything set up.


And having I-5’s of the same gens with different core and hyp counts is really strange even if they have different suffix’s.
 
90 50 said:
The biggest problem I have with “gaming “ laptops like that today don’t seem to have enough out put ports.

If I were to drop 1100.00 on something like that I’d like for it to have at least two display port outs.

I really miss the docking stations my old dells had.

Pop it out and take like laptop , home or office drop in docking station and have everything set up.


And having I-5’s of the same gens with different core and hyp counts is really strange even if they have different suffix’s.
Click to expand...
Well they make GPU docking stations nowadays. Or "graphic amplifiers" per Alienware. MSI makes one too.
 
X-Pac Rules said:
Well they make GPU docking stations nowadays. Or "graphic amplifiers" per Alienware. MSI makes one too.
Click to expand...
I didn’t think those worked too good?
Then you still have speakers and mouse keyboards etc etc. to hook up everytime.

Loved the simplicity of haveing everything all set up and just dropping the laptop Into the dock. I have no idea why that principle has mostly stayed only in the business field and going away more and more.

The usb3 docks they have now are shit, and on my laptop it will only drive one monitor not two. Both usb 3 ports won’t drive a monitor and you can’t drive two monitors split off one port on the one I have , my dock has two hdmi out , but it won’t drive both monitors.

I might, might possibly buy one like was posted here ther other day for 600.00 ish with the i-5 and 1050 iirc for travel soon.

My g/f has taken over my i-5 laptop since I built my pc
 
90 50 said:
Ga-78lmt-s2 is the mobo he has, he’s trying to tell me it’s Sata 2 and those ssd’s Won’t work.

Don’t you just need the right cable?

Man I’m out of the loop in so many ways on this stuff these days.

@jefferz
Click to expand...

A sata 3 drive will work on the sata 2 standard, they're backwards compatible. It's the same cable.
As for multiple displays on a laptop, buy a type C dongle. My buddy uses a type C dongle as a docking station.


Madmick said:
This is one of those processors that only exists on paper.

Learn suffixes. That's Intel's indicator.

For laptops, they break up generations of the same architecture into a lot of different brackets targeting different niches because of all the different form factors and needs that laptops address. For example, gamer laptops have awful battery life from their high TDP, because gamers need the performance, and don't care about battery life, while Ultrabooks designed for dedicated travel tend to focus on a very low TDPs in order that they can maximize battery life at a cost to performance.
  • HK: Highest powered monsters (rare and very expensive; workstations and monster gaming laptops)
  • HQ/H: High-powered mass produced processors (gaming laptops)
  • U: Half the cores, lower-powered variants, mainstream market (almost all laptops under $1K, but also some more expensive laptops focused on travel/battery will have some i7-U variants)
  • Y: Very low-powered processors that are much more likely to be fanless (aimed at low-end ultrabooks, chromebooks, hybrid tablets, etc)

Those "B" (65W) processors would go in the top bracket along with the "HK" processors, but so far, I see no sign of them making their way to market, and Intel seems to launch a lot of laptop CPUs like that. They were launched at the same time as other Coffee Lake mobile processors that are already out en masse. The suffixes above are ones that you'll actually see on shelves.

As I mentioned in the other thread, the i7-8750H is currently the most powerful mass-produced laptop gaming processor. The bestselling Acer Predator Helios 300 (2018 Version) that couples it with the GTX 1060 6GB (and 16GB RAM + 256GB SSD) is $1199.

That's the standard to beat atm.
Click to expand...

The lady from PC World, I can't remember her name right now, brought up a valid question about hyper threading and laptops. Are they going to drop hyper threading on laptops or is Intel shifting the technology towards it being just a laptop feature?
 
Madmick said:
You have to appreciate that they didn't hide their methodology even if it was deliberately engineered to favor the Intel processors they were reviewing. The tech blogosphere did a wonderful job of calling it out.
Click to expand...
 
jefferz said:
A sata 3 drive will work on the sata 2 standard, they're backwards compatible. It's the same cable.
As for multiple displays on a laptop, buy a type C dongle. My buddy uses a type C dongle as a docking station.




The lady from PC World, I can't remember her name right now, brought up a valid question about hyper threading and laptops. Are they going to drop hyper threading on laptops or is Intel shifting the technology towards it being just a laptop feature?
Click to expand...
I have a type c docking station with two hdmi ports. It won’t push two monitors.

I’ll let him know we are good to go on the ssd thanks!
 
jefferz said:
Click to expand...

Is there something outstanding in this timestamped segment I'm intended to notice that I'm overlooking?

Seems to be more of the same. I can't believe how much negative press coverage a 2nd-party benchmark is getting, especially a "scandal" as muted and above-board as this one, but then, until the 9900K is out in the world and in their hands, I guess they don't have much else to talk about.


*Edit* Principled Technologise ran their benchmark suite again with all of the suggested corrections. The 9900K's advantage in games shrunk from ~50% to ~15%.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/jasone...-benchmarks-look-much-worse-now/#44479814108e
Forbes said:
Let's do a quick recap for those of you who missed the drama. Following its New York launch earlier in the week, Intel published a comprehensive set of gaming benchmarks on its Newsroom site (10 days before any embargoed reviewers could dispute the results) from a study it hired third party testing house Principled Technologies to conduct.

The benchmarks comprised 19 games and included various CPUs like Ryzen Threadripper 2950X, Ryzen 2700X, Intel Core i7-8700K and Intel's brand new Core i9-9900K. The study allowed Intel to conclude that its $480 CPU was up to 50% faster than AMD's $299 Ryzen 2700X. Principled Technologies outlined their testing methodology in painstaking detail, which of course allowed the tech press to quickly pick apart several crucial flaws in their testing procedures, rendering the results irrelevant...

When confronted by enthusiast gamers and the tech reviewer community, Principled Technologies acknowledged some of these faults and pledged to run their entire benchmark suite again with a revised testing methodology. To the company's credit, it not only did so but published the results.
Click to expand...
 
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90 50 said:
The biggest problem I have with “gaming “ laptops like that today don’t seem to have enough out put ports.

If I were to drop 1100.00 on something like that I’d like for it to have at least two display port outs.

I really miss the docking stations my old dells had.

Pop it out and take like laptop , home or office drop in docking station and have everything set up.


And having I-5’s of the same gens with different core and hyp counts is really strange even if they have different suffix’s.
Click to expand...
To be blunt, that's a pretty silly position to adopt when the point of a laptop is precisely that it isn't a desktop, and the overwhelmingly majority of users won't ever use it to power any display other than the one it came with. Laptops are extremely limited in space. Hardware design has to be brutal in eliminating less useful components. It's inefficient to add more display outs.

Nevertheless, there are plenty of gaming laptops out there with a USB-C/Thunderport in addition to the standard HDMI, and while rarer, some of those also include a miniDisplayPort. Your niche isn't without options. The HP Omen series is an example with all three display outs (Thunderbolt 3 + HDMI + miniDisplayport):
https://www.walmart.com/ip/HP-Omen-...M-Memory-1TB-Hard-Drive-256GB-SSD-B/802329710
90 50 said:
And it still gets slammed in the dirt behind the current r5.

I just don’t like the way they do naming conventions with desktop and laptop cpu’s you’ve got the best new I-7 in a laptop and it can’t hang with an i5 or r5 in a desktop. Just doesn’t seem right they should call them something else.

http://cpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Intel-Core-i7-8750H-vs-AMD-Ryzen-5-2600X/m470418vs3956
Click to expand...
Yeah, I understand this frustration, and wish there were a clearer indication separating the desktop from the mobile classes, but this is what the suffixes are intended to convey. Ultimately, "i7" is more about branding, and conveying to mainstream users that this processor represents the highest level of performance that Intel manufacturers; an i7-8xxxU processor, for example, represents the pinnacle of Intel laptop manufacturing at that TDP. Going forward "i9" assumes this top flight branding.

Also, that i7-8750H isn't getting "slammed in the dirt" by the R5-2600X. A 5% per-thread and 30% overall synthetic defeat, if we zoom out to see the big picture, really isn't that significant. Furthermore, notice that laptop processors have much more extreme turbos than desktop variants. This is because they have to be more conservative about heat, but when they need to kick up, they can kick up aggressively for shorter periods. Observe the effect on the overclocked figures in the R5-2600X comparison. Suddenly, the i7-8750H and R5-2600X are roughly identical (-2% for 8750H). The i7-8750H isn't an unlocked processor, so what that is telling you is that whoever scored the peak bench for the i7-8750H was just pulling some tricks to keep the CPU cold, prevent throttling, and extend turbo time.

In other words, when the i7-8750H hits its peak turbo, it is as powerful as the R5-2600X overclocked to its highest level of performance possible. It can hang.
https://www.amazon.com/Enhance-Gaming-Cooling-Adjustable-Laptops/dp/B01I0OFHRI
81B6ZrY04SL._SL1500_.jpg
 
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AMD Ryzen 7 2700X price drop steals thunder from Intel’s Core i9-9900K launch
AMD’s eight-core CPU looks pretty stunning value at this point
AMD appears to be trying to poach customers from Intel following the revelation of the latter’s new 9th-gen processors and their pricing, with the asking price of the Ryzen 7 2700X being chopped to just $294.99 at Amazon over in the US.

Now, remember that Intel’s incoming Core i9-9900K, which goes on sale October 19, and is also an eight-core processor with very similar specs on paper – albeit with a somewhat faster boost speed in stock configuration – has a recommended price of $488 (around £370).

As we noted in our hands on with Intel’s Core i9, the Ryzen 7 2700X looked comparatively great value at $329, and now it has been further dropped by just over 10%.

In short, this makes Intel’s chip seem very costly – it’s around two-thirds more expensive to be precise – particularly when you remember that AMD’s effort also comes bundled with a premium Wraith cooler.
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I guess the official MSRP listing via Amazon has been chopped from $329 to $295 (even though the MSRPs are almost without exception more expensive than the actual market price for any CPU for the entirety of its relevant lifespan). This processor was just released in April! Worse, despite that the MSRP for the 9900K is supposed to be $488, the lowest pre-order price on the market remains $530.

The entry first gen Ryzen processors have cratered:
  • R5-1600 = $155 ($219 MSRP)
  • R7-1700 = $189 ($329 MSRP)
  • R7-2700X = $295 ($329 MSRP)
Meanwhile, the Intel prices continue to climb with each passing day, and are more expensive than their launch MSRPs from a full year ago in Q4 2017. Where the hell is this price inflation coming from?
  • i5-8400 = $205 ($182 MSRP)
  • i5-8600K = $279 ($257 MSRP)
  • i7-8700K = $376 ($359 MSRP)
  • i9-9900K = $530 ($488 MSRP)

Uh, yeah. Intel might want to relax those inventory controls (if they even can). At least they have this:
Intel to Support 128GB of DDR4 on Core 9th Gen Desktop Processors
Yeah, nobody cares.
 
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Madmick said:
AMD Ryzen 7 2700X price drop steals thunder from Intel’s Core i9-9900K launch
AMD’s eight-core CPU looks pretty stunning value at this point

I guess the official MSRP listing via Amazon has been chopped from $329 to $295 (even though the MSRPs are almost without exception more expensive than the actual market price for any CPU for the entirety of its relevant lifespan). This processor was just released in April! Worse, despite that the MSRP for the 9900K is supposed to be $488, the lowest pre-order price on the market remains $530.

The entry first gen Ryzen processors have cratered:
  • R5-1600 = $155 ($219 MSRP)
  • R7-1700 = $189 ($329 MSRP)
  • R7-2700X = $295 ($329 MSRP)
Meanwhile, the Intel prices continue to climb with each passing day, and are more expensive than their launch MSRPs from a full year ago in Q4 2017. Where the hell is this price inflation coming from?
  • i5-8400 = $205 ($182 MSRP)
  • i5-8600K = $279 ($257 MSRP)
  • i7-8700K = $376 ($359 MSRP)
  • i9-9900K = $530 ($488 MSRP)

Uh, yeah. Intel might want to relax those inventory controls (if they even can). At least they have this:
Intel to Support 128GB of DDR4 on Core 9th Gen Desktop Processors
Yeah, nobody cares.
Click to expand...
My local microcenter has the 2700x for 279.00(249.00)
R5 1600 129.00(99.00)
R71800x for 199.00(169.00)

The bracketed prices are for an extra -30.00 off with mobo purchase.
The r5 2400g @ 149.00(119.00) and r3 2200g @ 79.00 are serious steals right now as well.

http://www.microcenter.com/category/4294966995,4294819840/amd-processors
 
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