Glory 44 Chicago: Doumbé, Groenhart, Abraham, Jacoby, van Soest, Moroșanu [25th August]

[null]

The big issue really is a significant lack of US talent compared to MMA which never would have taken off it was only made up of Europeans and Brazilians.

I think that much used argument is completey off base. I don't believe it would matter at all how many great American kickboxers there are. Kickboxing has been and is still going to be a niche sport going forward, third in line behind the century plus tradition of boxing and the cultural phenomenon of cage fighting turrned professional fighting sport of MMA. I'm American and I don't root for Americans just because they're American. Even the UFC didn't rely on American stars in their mid 2000s to late 2000s heyday. Their big stars Anderson Silva is Brazilian and barely spoke English and GSP is a French speaking Canadian and they were as or even more popular as Chuck Liddell and Tito Ortiz.

 

[null]

I appreciate your enthusiasm but this card sucks.

I don't actually agree and my enthusiasm won't be dampened in any case. The way I see it, that's the great thing about having regular cards from a promotion like Glory, it doesn't matter if one particular card "sucks", there's another one coming along a month later that may catch your interest more. It's the same way I feel about any given UFC Fight Night card from a smaller city that doesn't have any big stars on any given Saturday night. UFC fans make the same comment about the card is "weak" because it's not a huge PPV extravaganza with Conor McGregor, and they think they made some astute observation instead of just accepting that they're getting cards almost every week that will naturally vary in the amount of big names on it.

I really wonder what fantasy people have in their mind of what they would expect out of let's say 12 Glory cards per year. Are you all so confident that you could take whatever budget and schedule of locations they are working with and do better? It reminds me of the couch potato fans of stick and ball sports who think they could be a more effective NFL head coach or commissioner of MLB baseball than whoever is actually doing those jobs in spite of the fact that they usually have zero relevant experience in business or sports.

 

[Shadess]

I won't compare the product now to the very early days of the promotion because from what I understand that was a very different era in the evolution of the company and I wasn't watching then either. But suggesting that Glory's roster is worse now in the last couple of years since they went to ESPN than it was when they were on Spike in the U.S. is madness. There are so many more top fighters and international fighters from countries all over the world fighting in Glory now than there were a few years ago, including top fighters who were champions or rated highly in other promotions.

I'm not comparing to the early days either and this bit is just categorically untrue. Not going internet archiving now, but I can't think of a single division in Glory that is better now than in 2015. HW as an anomaly is fairly similar I guess.

Maybe you guys in other countries who can't get the main cards on ESPN3 online or ESPN on tv have Glory on one of your local tv channels- either in English or local language- but you're a cord cutter and refuse to pay for tv either. So whose fault is it if you can't watch Glory there if you're not paying for cable or satellite tv service either? I wouldn't even knock you if it was seriously just not available by any method in your country and you resorted to streaming it unauthorized. If so, what are you complaining about?

Glory really isn't live on tv in that many places usually. Well if you're in Africa or Middle East then maybe. If the lists on Glory's site are accurate, which they at least sometimes in the past haven't exactly been.

 

[UWanaPlayDaGame]

Are you all so confident that you could take whatever budget and schedule of locations they are working with and do better? It reminds me of the couch potato fans of stick and ball sports who think they could be a more effective NFL head coach or commissioner of MLB baseball than whoever is actually doing those jobs in spite of the fact that they usually have zero relevant experience in business or sports.

That's completely irrelevant because we're not required to actually be able to do a better job than them in order to just give an opinion. can't you give your opinion on a fancy restaurant dinner plate because you're not a chef? can't you give an opinion on The Godfather because you're not a mobster? can't you give an opinion on Hamlet because you're not part of the danish monarchy?

but anyway, since you asked, yes I could do a better job by just replacing low level american kickboxers and tryhard MMAers turned into strikers by third tier talent from Thailand. hell, Broadcast could do it by replacing them by Superkombat romanian champions or JayMuayThai by spamming Sitsongpeenong fighters one after another.

none of this matters since it's Glory staff that is required to put together worthy cards especially when the company is running their mouth claiming to be the end all be all of stand up combat sports. I agree kickboxing is and will always be a niche sport which is exactly why there's no point in trying to impress mainstream american audience which they fail to do anyway. that was all I initially refuted from your argument - that from my own anecdotal observation, after sudden initial excitment, mma fans were turned off from Glory due to bad decisions, shitty refereeing and weak cards.

 

[Mafanofe]

honestly i just wanted glory to die...

i mean,they made some good events on europe and everything,but i cant stand for Top fighters fighting 4 times a year or less,damn it is so bad

And it dont make any commercial sense,because they almost dont promote their fighters to make fights big and they are not based on PPV,they do things on this way because they do like 10-12 events per year so they have to fit everyone in a card,especially the american low lvls who dont drawn any attention.

This number of fights for top guys is reasonable on MMA or boxing,but historically kickboxing was never like this,just look at Champions and strong contenders activity

Verhoeven:2015(4 fights) 2016 (3 fights) 2017( 1 fight til yet)

RVR: 2015 (3 fights) 2016 (2 fights) 2017 (2 fights)

Marat Grigorian(one of the guys that they schedule everytime for glory) : 2015 ( 9 fights) 2016 ( 6 fights) 2017 (2 fights)

Hozlken: 2015 ( 4 fights) 2016(3 fights) 2017(1 fight)


Simon Marcus: 2015 (4 fights) 2016 (5 fights) 2017 (1 fight)

Jason Wilnis: 2015 (4 fights) 2016 (4 fights) 2017 (4 fights)


Saulo Cavalari: 2015(2 fights) 2016 (2 fights) 2017 (2 fights)


Ben Saddik: 2015 (3 fights) 2016 ( 3 fights) 2017 (1 fight)


these are only some examples,pretty much almost every good fighter on their roster is fighting like 4 times a year(counting glory fights or not)


bring back the tournaments back(and not the fucking contenders who dont worth nothing anymore) and make your fighters work more or just die please

 

[null]

That's completely irrelevant because we're not required to actually be able to do a better job than them in order to just give an opinion. can't you give your opinion on a fancy restaurant dinner plate because you're not a chef? can't you give an opinion on The Godfather because you're not a mobster? can't you give an opinion on Hamlet because you're not part of the danish monarchy?

but anyway, since you asked, yes I could do a better job by just replacing low level american kickboxers and tryhard MMAers turned into strikers by third tier talent from Thailand. hell, Broadcast could do it by replacing them by Superkombat romanian champions or JayMuayThai by spamming Sitsongpeenong fighters one after another.

none of this matters since it's Glory staff that is required to put together worthy cards especially when the company is running their mouth claiming to be the end all be all of stand up combat sports. I agree kickboxing is and will always be a niche sport which is exactly why there's no point in trying to impress mainstream american audience which they fail to do anyway. that was all I initially refuted from your argument - that from my own anecdotal observation, after sudden initial excitment, mma fans were turned off from Glory due to bad decisions, shitty refereeing and weak cards.

Why do I feel like I'm the the only person in the thread who actually looked at the card lineup? It happens to be in Chicago this time and there are only 6 Americans out of 20 fighters. And one of them is the female champion who had to win three fights from an international tournament field of what was it eight fighters last year to become champion. So I am going to say there are 5 Americans with no belt that they elected to participate this time. Does that seem disproportionate to you to have such a small number of fighters from a home country? That seems like a reasonable number to me, not a big number. Not at all like they are just shoehorning Americans in just because like you are suggesting. Glory had similar numbers of domestic fighters from the home country when they were in The Netherlands or France didn't they? Also, since you mentioned Romanian Superkombat chamions, isn't Morosanu specifically one of those and according to what I read online also some kind of big celebrity in Romania? Why would you imagine that bringing in what you describe as third tier talent from Thailand be any better for business or more entertaining than having a mix of talent from all over the world?

 

[null]

honestly i just wanted glory to die...

i mean,they made some good events on europe and everything,but i cant stand for Top fighters fighting 4 times a year or less,damn it is so bad

And it dont make any commercial sense,because they almost dont promote their fighters to make fights big and they are not based on PPV,they do things on this way because they do like 10-12 events per year so they have to fit everyone in a card,especially the american low lvls who dont drawn any attention.

This number of fights for top guys is reasonable on MMA or boxing,but historically kickboxing was never like this,just look at Champions and strong contenders activity

Verhoeven:2015(4 fights) 2016 (3 fights) 2017( 1 fight til yet)

RVR: 2015 (3 fights) 2016 (2 fights) 2017 (2 fights)

Marat Grigorian(one of the guys that they schedule everytime for glory) : 2015 ( 9 fights) 2016 ( 6 fights) 2017 (2 fights)

Hozlken: 2015 ( 4 fights) 2016(3 fights) 2017(1 fight)


Simon Marcus: 2015 (4 fights) 2016 (5 fights) 2017 (1 fight)

Jason Wilnis: 2015 (4 fights) 2016 (4 fights) 2017 (4 fights)


Saulo Cavalari: 2015(2 fights) 2016 (2 fights) 2017 (2 fights)


Ben Saddik: 2015 (3 fights) 2016 ( 3 fights) 2017 (1 fight)


these are only some examples,pretty much almost every good fighter on their roster is fighting like 4 times a year(counting glory fights or not)


bring back the tournaments back(and not the fucking contenders who dont worth nothing anymore) and make your fighters work more or just die please

I'd personally love it if Glory could could build to 15 or 18 cards per year like they once suggested last year and keep their fighters more active, at least the ones that were healthy and willing. I'm guessing bigger tournaments are a pain in the ass to put on, but I wouldn't mind seeing them as well if they would pull them off.

 

[Yodsanan]

Jimm Gunn really trying promote that card hard. The UFC can run that amount of events because they have enough fighters and deep enough division to make that possible. Upping your events number while having the same amount of fighters like Glory doesn't work out and you end up with bad cards like this one.

 

[null]

Jimm Gunn really trying promote that card hard. The UFC can run that amount of events because they have enough fighters and deep enough division to make that possible. Upping your events number while having the same amount of fighters like Glory doesn't work out and you end up with bad cards like this one.

I genuinely enjoy Glory. Maybe since I've only been watching kickboxing pretty steadily for a few years since I first saw Glory on Spike, maybe I just don't have unrealistic expectations like I think some of you guys do. What exactly would make the card not bad? Take every American off the card even though it's being held in the U.S.? Have a minimum five Thais on the card? Kidnap Gokhan Saki at gunpoint and force him to fight?

 

[Yodsanan]

I genuinely enjoy Glory. Maybe since I've only been watching kickboxing pretty steadily for a few years since I first saw Glory on Spike, maybe I just don't have unrealistic expectations like I think some of you guys do. What exactly would make the card not bad? Take every American off the card even though it's being held in the U.S.? Have a minimum five Thais on the card? Kidnap Gokhan Saki at gunpoint and force him to fight?

GLORY 44 CHICAGO

WELTERWEIGHT TITLE: good main event

• Cédric Doumbé vs. Murthel Groenhart good main event

SUPERFIGHTS: Abraham as Co-Headline???

• Richard Abraham vs. Daniel Morales

WELTERWEIGHT TOURNAMENT 1/2 FINALES: ok'ish tournament in a weak divison. no kongolo or holzken.

• Casey Greene vs. Antoine Pinto
• Karim Benmansour vs. Harut Grigorian

GLORY 44 SUPERFIGHT SERIES

SUPER BANTAMWEIGHT TITLE : women headline event in an non existent division.

• Tiffany van Soest vs. Funda Alkayiş

CO-MAIN EVENT: could be fun.

• Cătălin Moroșanu vs. Michal Turynski

SUPERFIGHTS: complete ass

• Dustin Jacoby vs. Sean Choice
• Warren Thompson vs. Robert Thomas
• Rafal Dudek vs. Nate Richardson
• Victor Pinto vs. Adrian Maxim

 

[Shadess]

I genuinely enjoy Glory. Maybe since I've only been watching kickboxing pretty steadily for a few years since I first saw Glory on Spike, maybe I just don't have unrealistic expectations like I think some of you guys do. What exactly would make the card not bad? Take every American off the card even though it's being held in the U.S.? Have a minimum five Thais on the card? Kidnap Gokhan Saki at gunpoint and force him to fight?

Dunno if you are including me in those with unrealistic expectations or not but I like Glory just fine too. Still don't see a point in hyping up things like the current overall roster when it clearly isn't quite what it used to be.

 

[Shadess]

Quickly took a look at some of the better names based on early 2015 rankings and now. We've

lost:
Varga
Ristie, Kiria, Petrosyan
Karapetyan, Ghajji, Daniels, Sugden
Levin, Schilling, Stoica(s)
Saki, Spong, Corbett
Ghita, Edwards, Kharitonov

sorta/maybe gone since they're not much fighting on Glory lately?:
Amrani
Verlinden, Barrett, Mwekassa

--------------------

gained:
Pet, Salvador
Larsen, Baya, Beztati
Doumbe, Kongolo, Grigorian
Adesanya, Belgaroui
Zhuravlev

--------------------
Probably missing some on both sides.

Would say Doumbe, Adesanya, Pet and Zhuravlev are great additions but it just doesn't compare to the guys who are gone. This also just looking at the fighters and not at how they're being utilized. The tournaments now are usually pretty bad when they didn't used to be.

+
Don't know if Pet is still fighting on Glory? Adesanya seems sorta gone too and based on him fighting MMA on AFC who Kunlun partnered up with could very well be that we'd see Kyshenko-Adesanya at Kunlun before more Glory fights?

Then the little thing of Sitthichai not being injured and actively fighting in China. Away for (probably, at least) 9 months if he keeps winning in Wu Lin Feng. He still under contract? Grigorian in the Kunlun tournament too. 70kg division in Glory seemingly in hibernation and generally speaking that's the best division in the sport.

 

[Mafanofe]

Richard Abraham vs Daniel morales as a co fucking headline says it all,its offensive..

this WW tournament was just made to Pinto or grigorian win,here its why:

Harut Grigorian winning will be good if Murthel wins the title,so they are going to have their 3rd fight and it can do good numbers due all the storm that were made in the heavies because of what happened on the last fight

if Antoine Pinto wins it(less probable) will be good if Doumbe defends his title,because they could do the all french fight,both were famous in france and already talked shit about each other in the past

my problem with glory is that these contender tournaments are being in the majority of times useless and the cards are bad even for a event on US

its good to have an all english kickboxing plataform,but not with the way they are doing

 

[Shadess]

Abraham sells tickets that's not too bad.

 

[Mafanofe]

Abraham sells tickets that's not too bad.

but co headlining the main card where you have a lot of top fighters getting a much lower numbers of fights than he have cant be a good thing in the future

they are not building fighters with interesting fights,i mean,when you want to see two guys doing good on the promotion facing each other,it is not happening with the frequence that they had anymore,it is bad IMO

 

[null]

Thank you Shadess, I was just about to say the card is in Chicago and Abraham is from the Chicago area. I'm sure he's a good local ticket seller for them and that's a consideration for a promotion. I also don't know if that should technically be considered the co-main event as it's the fight in between the two welterweight tournament fights and the tournament final which should be immediately before the main event. I find Tiffany Van Soest to be pretty entertaining as I have been watching her since she was in Lion Fight and in her Invicta MMA bout and through the Glory women's tourney last year, and it's nice to see they're giving her someone who I suppose is a credible challenger for her belt. I watched Morosanu's recent fight in Superkombat (thanks CBS SN) so I'm intrigued to see his Glory debut. Doumbe vs Groenhart should be an entertaining main event now that I have been watching their recent fights and know a lot more about them. I always find the 4-man tournaments interesting just due to the two fights in one night aspect, even if they overuse them and sometimes end up with multiple number one contenders awaiting a title shot. Pinto, Benmansour & Grigorian are all familiar to me. Those bouts alone are enough for me to be entertained. As I said, I already subscribe to Fight Pass and ESPN, it's not like this is costing me anything extra. If any of the early fights on the SFS are entertaining despite not having huge names, that's a bonus.

 

[Broadcast]

Glory is great, you aren"t serious with them disappearing. I just don"t like the pro-Dutch decisions in the promotions, that"s all. Because Ghiță could have been easily a champ, and Adegbuyi was also robbed in his last fight. While I watched the fight against Wilnis several times, and I still think he won 2 out of 3 rounds.

Anyways, let"s stick to this card. We still have a tournament, great main event, plus a world title fight of the women and Moroșanu against a very underrated heavyweight and known in Europe as being solid enough to the hardcore fans.

At least Glory isn"t as overrated as UFC.

 

[VinceF]

yeah lets all boo on glory for giving us an event that does not contain 15+ top 10 guys...


Lets just enjoy the fights mkay? cause its what we like and stuff...

 

[UWanaPlayDaGame]

Why do I feel like I'm the the only person in the thread who actually looked at the card lineup? It happens to be in Chicago this time and there are only 6 Americans out of 20 fighters. And one of them is the female champion who had to win three fights from an international tournament field of what was it eight fighters last year to become champion. So I am going to say there are 5 Americans with no belt that they elected to participate this time. Does that seem disproportionate to you to have such a small number of fighters from a home country? That seems like a reasonable number to me, not a big number. Not at all like they are just shoehorning Americans in just because like you are suggesting. Glory had similar numbers of domestic fighters from the home country when they were in The Netherlands or France didn't they? Also, since you mentioned Romanian Superkombat chamions, isn't Morosanu specifically one of those and according to what I read online also some kind of big celebrity in Romania? Why would you imagine that bringing in what you describe as third tier talent from Thailand be any better for business or more entertaining than having a mix of talent from all over the world?

I looked at the lineup several times, it's just hard to register these names. Main event is good; Abraham is a guy who's from the Chicago area, Tiffany is cute (great credentials); Morosanu is a nice addition; Casey Greene and Dustin Jacoby are awful; Pinto brothers are overrated; WW tournament is lackluster. there's nothing to get excited about.

the ammount of americans is not an issue with this card specifically, but a trend where they have to dig up american kickboxers from a paper thin talent pool which results in watering down the level of the roster. it certainly was much, much worse in the Spike days and it isn't such a big deal now. even so, the comparision with Netherlands and France doesn't stand, because unlike USA these countries have great kickboxing tradition and much deeper talent pool.

the comment about romanian champions was tongue in cheek but incredibly there's some truth to it. bringing in "third tier talent from Thailand" wouldn't be any better for business but I'm not Glory's CEO so I don't care about it. it certainly would be much more entertaining to me since my notion of entertainment in kickboxing is watching good fighters.

 

[UWanaPlayDaGame]

yeah lets all boo on glory for giving us an event that does not contain 15+ top 10 guys...


Lets just enjoy the fights mkay? cause its what we like and stuff...

I had this line of thought like two years ago but some Glory cards in that time weren't enjoyable at all. more like a chore to watch them sometimes.

and you don't have to rely on Glory to watch kickboxing anymore, there's K-1 Japan and Kunlun putting better events regularly.