Good video and argument against Affirmative Action

[Goonerview]

Personally, I'm against affirmative action based on skin color. I don't think it helps anyone (even the people they think it's helping).

I have never seen the argument against it presented so well than here:



Good discussion.

 

[DC23]

What a way to start the weekend. This should be fun.

 

[genecop]

I love JESSE

 

[TownBiz]

the discussion is problematic to begin with because the vast majority of black people don't know who jesse lee peterson is...he's just not on our radar. i've known about this guy for a long time, but that's because i 'm a nerd who watches c-span for fun and reads sociological studies about race because that kinda stuff interests me.

but that poor woman was ambushed...she had no idea this is a guy who has made his career as a fringe agitator, undermining the narrative that there is racial inequality in america. IMO, if the lady had been some kinda weirdo, unbeknownst to jesse, and shared his fucked up views about race and inequality, this video would never have been posted...he woulda kicked her out of the studio after 5 minutes, because he woulda had no use for her and woulda probably questioned her sanity. it's because jesse knows that blacks share a common experience in america and one that is well documented, that he knows there will be a discussion on the topic. but picking a random woman who is not an expert in this area is not the way to explore this topic...if he wants to do right by his viewers he should pick on a black studies professor or a civil rights lawyer. but he doesn't do this because he knows they would chew him up and spit him out in a bloody heap. so, he picks on an ordinary woman to beat up while his racist followers cheer along. that jsut makes jesse an asshole...and a coward.

the bottomline about affirmative action is that the only thing blacks "get" is opportunity. Once they get that opportunity they have to prove themselves. Affirmative action was a necessity because for many years there was a quota of zero when it comes to blacks. blacks were denied opportunity. affirmative action is not racism...affirmative action is the cure for racism. it removes the barriers against blacks getting into college, the police force, the fire dept, etc., by taking into consideration all the factors that are necessary to perform those jobs successfully. but getting the job is not the victory...keeping the job, graduating from the school, THAT's the victory. therefore affirmative action says nothing at all about the quality of person you are...all it says is that you,as a black person, finally got the opportunity others have always taken for granted.

So, whites oppose affirmative action, not really because they feel it produces an inferior product. they oppose it because they are AFRAID IT DOESN'T. once blacks prove they can be great policemen, firemen, graduate from harvard, etc, they start to compete on even terms with whites...it becomes a more level playing field...that threatens white people and encroaches on their white privilege, which by the way, is a realty. and that is why whites hate affirmative action and object to it. its about holding onto to white supremacy at all costs and continuing to deny opportunities to others while blaming those others for being lazy and lacking ingenuity as the reasons they haven't risen up.

 

[Goonerview]

So, whites oppose affirmative action, not really because they feel it produces an inferior product. they oppose it because they are AFRAID IT DOESN'T. once blacks prove they can be great policemen, firemen, graduate from harvard, etc, it threatens white people and encroaches on their white privilege, which by the way, is a realty. and that is why whites hate affirmative action and object to it. its about holding onto to white supremacy at all costs and continuing to deny opportunities to others while blaming those others for being lazy and lacking ingenuity as the reasons they haven't risen up.

Nonsense, I'm against it because it is not fair, period.

It assumes, wrongly I might add, that all black people are oppressed and all white people are privileged. Just because of their skin color.

It doesn't help black people. Affirmative action is state-sanctioned racism.

 

[TownBiz]

Nonsense, I'm against it because it is not fair, period.

It assumes, wrongly I might add, that all black people are oppressed and all white people are privileged. Just because of their skin color.

It doesn't help black people. Affirmative action is state-sanctioned racism.

it's never been the case that all blacks are poor and that all members of the white community have the same amount of privilege. but what is true is that blacks have historically been denied opportunity in every aspect of society and whites, even the poorest whites have always had more opportunity than blacks.

as i said, all affirmative action does is provide opportunities for black people that have historically been denied...believe it or not, that is of tremendous help to us. it means we have a chance!...but believe me, i understand white resentment, because affirmative action means more competition for the majority of whites who are accustomed to not having to struggle and suffer for lack of employment.

but c'mon, dude, there's STILL schools and other organizations in america that deny blacks admission even today.

 

[TownBiz]

and i don't see how affirmative action is "racism"...how does it deny opportunities to whites?

 

[tkotom]

and i don't see how affirmative action is "racism"...how does it deny opportunities to whites?

Because of e.g. 100 limited spots, X amount are guaranteed to people of a particular skin color, even if their grades are lower than someone else with a different skin color.

Why do you need that shit explained to you? What is wrong with you?

 

[TownBiz]

Because of e.g. 100 limited spots, X amount are guaranteed to people of a particular skin color, even if their grades are lower than someone else with a different skin color.

Why do you need that shit explained to you? What is wrong with you?

that's not how affirmative action works...you don't understand. the scenario you're discussing is one in which, say there are 100 positions for police officers in a city. 1000 people apply and take the test. the passing score is, say 85. let's say 150 white guys score in the 90's and 50 black guys score 86. that means there were 200 people who passed the test. but there's only 100 slots available. so, how do you decide which of the 200 applicants who passed the test to hire? well, that's when OTHER criteria come into play...criteria such as the needs of the community, etc...there may also be a psychological or physical agility component.

so, ALL 50 black guys got hired and only 50 white guys got hired. that's not unfairness based on race... the black guys all passed the test. they're not less qualified applicants who got hired ONLY because they were black.... they met the minimum score which is all they're required to do so, they're as qualified as the whites. if you can show me where a black guy who was UNQUALIFIED for a job got hired for a job ONLY because of his race, please go ahead...i'm waiting.

Because policing is a job that requires that the needs of the community must be considered as well, there may only be a need for the 50 white guys...those reasons aren't racist. it's based on need.

i'm black and i've been in a lot of situations where i was as qualified as any white candidate, in fact, i know of one case at least where i was the MOST qualified candidate...and they gave it to somebody else, because like it says on the job announcement, your qualifications (education, scores, etc) are only ONE factor....the human resources officer must also consider other factors such as how a particular applicant will fit in with the organization.

is that necessarily racist in your opinion?

of course they make mistakes all the time and hire the wrong guy, so that's why people get fired and the hiring process has to start all over again.

 

[Gervais]

A white british guy from uk show us a video about how black women need to take responsibilty. I just cant

Thank god the world cup is here.

 

[TownBiz]

A white british guy from uk show us a video about how black women need to take responsibilty. I just cant

Thank god the world cup is here.

yeah, i watched the whole video and the white british guy obviously has no idea what he's talking about....i mean, he's a jesse lee peterson fan for chrissake...most likely one of them british neo-nazi skinheads.

 

[Goonerview]

yeah, i watched the whole video and the white british guy obviously has no idea what he's talking about....i mean, he's a jesse lee peterson fan for chrissake...most likely one of them british neo-nazi skinheads.

So, I can't have an opinion on a topic because I'm a "white British guy".

... And you think that I'm racist.

Could you be any less self-aware?

 

[Goonerview]

that's not how affirmative action works...you don't understand. the scenario you're discussing is one in which, say there are 100 positions for police officers in a city. 1000 people apply and take the test. the passing score is, say 85. let's say 150 white guys score in the 90's and 50 black guys score 86. that means there were 200 people who passed the test. but there's only 100 slots available. so, how do you decide which of the 200 applicants who passed the test to hire? well, that's when OTHER criteria come into play...criteria such as the needs of the community, etc...there may also be a psychological or physical agility component.

so, ALL 50 black guys got hired and only 50 white guys got hired. that's not unfairness based on race... the black guys all passed the test. they're not less qualified applicants who got hired ONLY because they were black.... they met the minimum score which is all they're required to do so, they're as qualified as the whites. if you can show me where a black guy who was UNQUALIFIED for a job got hired for a job ONLY because of his race, please go ahead...i'm waiting.

Because policing is a job that requires that the needs of the community must be considered as well, there may only be a need for the 50 white guys...those reasons aren't racist. it's based on need.

i'm black and i've been in a lot of situations where i was as qualified as any white candidate, in fact, i know of one case at least where i was the MOST qualified candidate...and they gave it to somebody else, because like it says on the job announcement, your qualifications (education, scores, etc) are only ONE factor....the human resources officer must also consider other factors such as how a particular applicant will fit in with the organization.

is that necessarily racist in your opinion?

of course they make mistakes all the time and hire the wrong guy, so that's why people get fired and the hiring process has to start all over again.

I think this is racist.

Why can't the best person for the job, get the job?

Why does the community have a problem with police officers having a different skin color? Are they racist? Sounds like it.

 

[Goonerview]

For the record, if there was affirmative action for poor people that are gifted. i.e. if there is someone from a single parent family, who is bright and gifted in a field, and there was a program to help them get an education/career ... I could probably get on board with that.

But, affirmative action just based on your skin color. Is wrong.

 

[TownBiz]

So, I can't have an opinion on a topic because I'm a "white British guy".

... And you think that I'm racist.

Could you be any less self-aware?

damn...the sense of victimization and accusations of racism just rolls off your tongue, huh?

i don't know how you come to the conclusion i lack self-awareness...sounds like you're just throwing around buzzwords instead of trying to have a sensible discussion...i thought you wanted to have a reasonable discussion or you said something like that in your original post. if not, don't say you do.

my reason for saying the narrator didn't have a clue what he's talking about, had nothing to do with his race or nationality (presumably white british)...i explained in my previous posts the reasons for why i feel he has no idea what he's talking about.

anybody can have an opinion on anything...i can have an opinion about ant farms...doesn't mean that i'm informed enough to give a valuable opinion...and anybody can post anything on youtube. doesn't mean they know what they're talking about...but that's NOT because of their race, it's because what comes out of their mouth shows they don't have enough information or knowledge about the topic to make sense in the context of this discussion.

 

[Alphaboy]

It actually helps white females more than anyone else.

 

[TownBiz]

I think this is racist.

Why can't the best person for the job, get the job?

Why does the community have a problem with police officers having a different skin color? Are they racist? Sounds like it.

well, there have been studies that show that when white police officers are in black neighborhoods, they don't get along with the black population...not only do the white police officers encounter racial tensions, but the community in general feels like the white police have a pattern of abuse. for that reason, it makes sense that the people in charge, match the police force with the people they're policing...just as any job would want to make sure the person hired is a good match for the company they work for.

so, in essence, that person hired IS the best person for that particular job.

 

[TownBiz]

For the record, if there was affirmative action for poor people that are gifted. i.e. if there is someone from a single parent family, who is bright and gifted in a field, and there was a program to help them get an education/career ... I could probably get on board with that.

But, affirmative action just based on your skin color. Is wrong.

affirmative action is not based only on skin color...it's based on a history of racism in america which led to denial of opportunity which led to differences in income, education and other factors that determine class... it seeks to correct those past inequities and injustices not only in terms of race, but also in terms of class.

however, affirmative action does not take away from white people. it only provides more opportunities for blacks. the opposition to affirmative action is most strongly opposed by poor and lower middle class and whites who are concerned that more opportunity for blacks will upset the current balance of power and that those poor whites will fall to the bottom rung of society as blacks, who now have opportunity will rise up past them.

 

[Goonerview]

damn...the sense of victimization and accusations of racism just rolls off your tongue, huh?

i don't know how you come to the conclusion i lack self-awareness...sounds like you're just throwing around buzzwords instead of trying to have a sensible discussion...i thought you wanted to have a reasonable discussion or you said something like that in your original post. if not, don't say you do.

my reason for saying the narrator didn't have a clue what he's talking about, had nothing to do with his race or nationality (presumably white british)...i explained in my previous posts the reasons for why i feel he has no idea what he's talking about.

anybody can have an opinion on anything...i can have an opinion about ant farms...doesn't mean that i'm informed enough to give a valuable opinion...and anybody can post anything on youtube. doesn't mean they know what they're talking about...but that's NOT because of their race, it's because what comes out of their mouth shows they don't have enough information or knowledge about the topic to make sense in the context of this discussion.

We aren't talking about ant farms. We're talking about society and basic philosophical principles of FAIRNESS. Being white and British should not exclude you from being part of this discussion. The fact that you suggested that this so, is absurd.

Affirmative Action based upon skin color is racist and not fair. Not just to white people, but to Asians, Hispanics, even black people themselves.

 

[BudKing8806]

well, there have been studies that show that when white police officers are in black neighborhoods, they don't get along with the black population...not only do the white police officers encounter racial tensions, but the community in general feels like the white police have a pattern of abuse. for that reason, it makes sense that the people in charge, match the police force with the people they're policing...just as any job would want to make sure the person hired is a good match for the company they work for.

so, in essence, that person hired IS the best person for that particular job.