Grappling also start standing... why negating the ground makes me a lesser grappler?

Problem is, its just another rules set. I think the reality is that effective grappling doesn't really equate to visually exiting contests (especially so for non-grapplers), so if you go for one, you lose out on another.
Why are contests restarted on the feet if no action happening on the ground? Why no points for back mount? what does a pin actually represent?

Combat Wrestling is a competition cross point rule set for all grappling styles.

If you set a diagram of all major grappling styles (BJJ, both Olympic wrestling styles, Judo, Sambo) then throw in a few not so well known (even Sumo), you will find out that all of them have takedowns scored high (if not a match finisher), pins been either end of the match of very highly scored, getting out of bounds been penalized (but also been used as escape from submissions, since out of bounds game is not recognized) and finally, some of them have submissions (in Judo and Sambo you can only submit on the ground).

None of them (except BJJ) scores back mount. Combat Wresting does award you 1 point (same as all other positional points, except pins, only once per match).

All of them (except BJJ) are restarted in standing.

In all of them, submissions are the end of the match.

So, in short, if you really want to be fair and invite all grappling styles to compete and have a fair chance of winning, Combat Wrestling is the optimal one.

The whole point of the rule set is to be something like K1 of grappling, not a style by it self. Although, if someone is trained under Combat Wrestling rule set, he will obviously be very well balanced grappler, with equal knowledge of takedowns, positional control, pins, submissions.
And as such, can have success in all of the big grappling styles, with minor adjustments to jacket.

I hope that answers the question.
 
Combat Wrestling is a competition cross point rule set for all grappling styles.

What's the point of something like that? For people who train multiple grappling styles. I could understand competing in a hybrid rule set if the was a huge pile of prize money.
 
What's the point of something like that? For people who train multiple grappling styles. I could understand competing in a hybrid rule set if the was a huge pile of prize money.
I dont understand the question.
Is it:
A. Whats the point of competing?
B. Whats the point of having a fair rule set for all grapplers?
C. Whats the point of winning?
 
Who is the competition targeted towards?
I compete in BJJ because I train that.
As a BJJer why would I want to compete in something that's a hybrid of BJJ and something else?
 
You are asking the fundamental question for the existence of cross sport platforms, such as UFC(today MMA is a sport by it self), K1, ADCC (you might want to see their Wikipedia description) and plenty of others.
Are you suggesting that:
A. Every competitor should compete only within his own rule set.
B. If cross competing, the rule set shall ALWAYS give advantage to one style.
 
Who is the competition targeted towards?
I compete in BJJ because I train that.
As a BJJer why would I want to compete in something that's a hybrid of BJJ and something else?
Thats fine.
Nobody is forcing you to participate in activities, you have no interest in.
 
A. Every competitor should compete only within his own rule set.

Yes, competing under rule sets I don't train for never made much sense to me without a huge prize to justify it.
If I wanted to compete under ADCC or MMA rules I would train for those rules.
Doing MMA as just a grappler seems crazy to me. Even if I win why would I want to compete with people punching me when I can't strike.
 
Yes, competing under rule sets I don't train for never made much sense to me without a huge prize to justify it.
If I wanted to compete under ADCC or MMA rules I would train for those rules.
Doing MMA as just a grappler seems crazy to me. Even if I win why would I want to compete with people punching me when I can't strike.
There are people like you and then there are people like Royce Gracie, who is the reason you train BJJ in a first place.
To each his own.
Anyway, there was a question here regarding Combat Wrestling and I answered it.
Have a good day.
 
Who is the competition targeted towards?

The competition is targeting towards people whose ideal is to be the best grappler. This is opposed to trying to be the best BJJ'er, best Judoka, etc. To say you're the best grappler, you have to look at the entirety of grappling (as opposed to exclusively competing in rulesets incentivizing portions of it), and create rules that reward good grappling. BJJ tried, but then betrayed itself, and now is its own microcosm.

If you just want to be the best BJJ'er (or are so deep in the kool-aid that you don't recognize there is more to being a good grappler than being good at BJJ), then don't do it. You don't have to. But if you want to say you're the best grappler, but never compete outside of Shuai Jiao competitions, then it isn't adding up.

since out of bounds game is not recognized) ...

YEA BUT IT SHOULD BE

WHAT IF YOU'RE GRAPPLING ON A CLIFF OR ON TOP OF A BUILDING OR NEXT TO A TRASH COMPACTOR OR WHATEVER!?

CLEAR ANTI SUMO BIAS.

I would also accept the compromise of allowing open palm striking, ala sumo, from standing. You could also allow open palm striking on the ground, per CJJ.
 
YEA BUT IT SHOULD BE

WHAT IF YOU'RE GRAPPLING ON A CLIFF OR ON TOP OF A BUILDING OR NEXT TO A TRASH COMPACTOR OR WHATEVER!?

CLEAR ANTI SUMO BIAS.
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It depends on whether or not the stand up guy is a competent ground grappler. If you have a complete skill set, then you're a great grappler who prefers to stand. But if all you are is a great stand up grappler, then you're not a great grappler. You are a great stand up grappler. You are incomplete.

So the answer is basically: it depends on whether or not the player is well rounded. I mean, if you train muay thai, but you only punch and never kick, then you're not really a muay thai guy. You're a boxer who fights in muay thai matches. But if you're a muay thai guy who does kick and knee but he just happens to be a great boxer and tends to use his hands more than his feet, then he's still a great muay thai fighter. He just has a strength in one aspect more than the other.
 
It depends on whether or not the stand up guy is a competent ground grappler. If you have a complete skill set, then you're a great grappler who prefers to stand. But if all you are is a great stand up grappler, then you're not a great grappler. You are a great stand up grappler. You are incomplete.

So the answer is basically: it depends on whether or not the player is well rounded. I mean, if you train muay thai, but you only punch and never kick, then you're not really a muay thai guy. You're a boxer who fights in muay thai matches. But if you're a muay thai guy who does kick and knee but he just happens to be a great boxer and tends to use his hands more than his feet, then he's still a great muay thai fighter. He just has a strength in one aspect more than the other.
Exactly!

The definition of grappling is very wide, swinging from extremities of stand up only, to ground work only.

A complete grappler should be equally versed not only in both stand up and ground, but in everything in the middle (aka clinch, scrambles).
 
Combat Wrestling is a competition cross point rule set for all grappling styles.

If you set a diagram of all major grappling styles (BJJ, both Olympic wrestling styles, Judo, Sambo) then throw in a few not so well known (even Sumo), you will find out that all of them have takedowns scored high (if not a match finisher), pins been either end of the match of very highly scored, getting out of bounds been penalized (but also been used as escape from submissions, since out of bounds game is not recognized) and finally, some of them have submissions (in Judo and Sambo you can only submit on the ground).

None of them (except BJJ) scores back mount. Combat Wresting does award you 1 point (same as all other positional points, except pins, only once per match).

All of them (except BJJ) are restarted in standing.

In all of them, submissions are the end of the match.

So, in short, if you really want to be fair and invite all grappling styles to compete and have a fair chance of winning, Combat Wrestling is the optimal one.

The whole point of the rule set is to be something like K1 of grappling, not a style by it self. Although, if someone is trained under Combat Wrestling rule set, he will obviously be very well balanced grappler, with equal knowledge of takedowns, positional control, pins, submissions.
And as such, can have success in all of the big grappling styles, with minor adjustments to jacket.

I hope that answers the question.
Are you involved in combat wrestling at all? I think its so cool and i think it SHOULD be the ultimate grappling sport. However, even in this thread it got a negative response from jj guys and it seems they dont really want cross over with wrestling so who knows what will happen...
 
Are you involved in combat wrestling at all? I think its so cool and i think it SHOULD be the ultimate grappling sport. However, even in this thread it got a negative response from jj guys and it seems they dont really want cross over with wrestling so who knows what will happen...
Yes, I am the founder and president of the International Combat Wrestling Federation.
I wouldnt count the responses of the BJJ guys in this thread as the general opinion towards Combat Wrestling.
We have plenty of competitors and world champions, who come from BJJ background.
There are many people who are not afraid to go out of their comfort zone, represent their own style and win.
 
Yes, I am the founder and president of the International Combat Wrestling Federation.
I wouldnt count the responses of the BJJ guys in this thread as the general opinion towards Combat Wrestling.
We have plenty of competitors and world champions, who come from BJJ background.
There are many people who are not afraid to go out of their comfort zone, represent their own style and win.
Youre the man! I'll keep telling everyone I know that combat wrestling has the best rule set.
 
BTW, an example for a complete grapller, would be Shutaro Debana:
- BJJ black belt and champion of Japan
- Judo black belt and 3rd in Japan
- Sambo national champion and 2 times winner of the prestigeous international tournament President's Cup
- Combat Wrestling world champion
- Went to a draw with Sakuraba in the 1st Quintet...

Shinya Aoki has very similar CV...
 
Combat Wrestling is a competition cross point rule set for all grappling styles.

If you set a diagram of all major grappling styles (BJJ, both Olympic wrestling styles, Judo, Sambo) then throw in a few not so well known (even Sumo), you will find out that all of them have takedowns scored high (if not a match finisher), pins been either end of the match of very highly scored, getting out of bounds been penalized (but also been used as escape from submissions, since out of bounds game is not recognized) and finally, some of them have submissions (in Judo and Sambo you can only submit on the ground).

None of them (except BJJ) scores back mount. Combat Wresting does award you 1 point (same as all other positional points, except pins, only once per match).

All of them (except BJJ) are restarted in standing.

In all of them, submissions are the end of the match.

So, in short, if you really want to be fair and invite all grappling styles to compete and have a fair chance of winning, Combat Wrestling is the optimal one.

The whole point of the rule set is to be something like K1 of grappling, not a style by it self. Although, if someone is trained under Combat Wrestling rule set, he will obviously be very well balanced grappler, with equal knowledge of takedowns, positional control, pins, submissions.
And as such, can have success in all of the big grappling styles, with minor adjustments to jacket.

I hope that answers the question.
Ben Askren has this idea that a near-submission should be rewarded highly in grappling. I like the idea. Is this considered in CW?
 
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