Great Republican Lie (tax "reform")

[PolishHeadlock]

It passed 51-49

Corker has cemented is legacy as a fake deficit hawk. He could have prevented it from leaving committee. He could have lobbied other Republicans to vote no.

McCain has completely tarnished his legacy. He kept calling for a return to normalcy but he voted to pass this think at 2am on Saturday with hand written amendments on the bill

 

[VivaRevolution]

Hypothetical: a global aerospace company builds a new carbon fiber airplane. In doing so, the executive level devises a plan to use a world wide supply chain, with components for the new airplane coming from over 50 different countries. This was done to attempt to turn airplane manufacturing into simple assembly in a attempt to union bust. Imagine this global supply chain was a massive failure, and resulted in billions of dollars in losses. Now, imagine that this global aerospace company gets to write off billions in taxes, for sending American jobs overseas.

Now imagine that we want to lower their taxes further.

 

[Last Samurai]

I watched a gop member being interviewed and his response when asked how the tax bill would impact the deficit was that they used only 1.9% growth in their forecast but that in reality it would be much higher than that.

ignoring the fact this assumption is based on absolutely nothing, has anyone looked at the possibility of negative growth and what impacts that might have? I only ask because historically speaking recessions run like clockwork, and we are about due for one.

 

[PolishHeadlock]

Hypothetical: a global aerospace company builds a new carbon fiber airplane. In doing so, the executive level devises a plan to use a world wide supply chain, with components for the new airplane coming from over 50 different countries. This was done to attempt to turn airplane manufacturing into simple assembly in a attempt to union bust. Imagine this global supply chain was a massive failure, and resulted in billions of dollars in losses. Now, imagine that this global aerospace company gets to write off billions in taxes, for sending American jobs overseas.

Now imagine that we want to lower their taxes further.

Are your saying this company made a bad decision that lead to a loss instead of income which meant no income taxes?

How are they writing off billions in losses sending jobs overseas?

 

[VivaRevolution]

Are your saying this company made a bad decision that lead to a loss instead of income which meant no income taxes?

How are they writing off billions in losses sending jobs overseas?

Because they sent large sub-component assemblies to low wage countries. This is what our auto industry did. Auto industry jobs in the US are end product assembly, with the vast majority of the components coming pre-assembled from low wage countries. It is snap together work, that doesn't require a skilled work force, and enables union busting.

In this hypothetical , the company made billions of dollars, over multiple years, and paid zero taxes, because of the losses on this new carbon fiber airplane.

 

[PolishHeadlock]

Because they sent large sub-component assemblies to low wage countries. This is what our auto industry did. Auto industry jobs in the US are end product assembly, with the vast majority of the components coming pre-assembled from low wage countries. It is snap together work, that doesn't require a skilled work force, and enables union busting.

In this hypothetical , the company made billions of dollars, over multiple years, and paid zero taxes, because of the losses on this new carbon fiber airplane.

So the company made money on one subsidiary while losing money on another subsidiary?

 

[VivaRevolution]

So the company made money on one subsidiary while losing money on another subsidiary?

In this hypothetical, that would be a way to look at it. In the aero industy, the FAA requires strict accountability for each individual airplane(at least in theory). Certifications, black boxes, ECT. So not really a different subsidiary, but a different airplane model.

 

[kpt018]

It comes down to the fundamental question:

Who do you think does a better job with the money? Government, or the people?

Government always claims it needs more and more money, but can't even perform it's basic functions properly.

Look at the prison systems, the state of our military, the Veterans hospitals, etc.

This is a terrible way to frame what our taxation system is supposed to accomplish. What you wrote implies they’re like a financial adviser or something.

The right way to look at this is we have to fund the government. That’s the military, infrastructure, education and a ton of other things the government provides. We can argue about what the government should do and how we raise the money, fair game. But I think it’s very foolish to say the tax cuts are good because you don’t like how the money spent. If the latter is your position you should want them to change how the money is spent!!

What GOP senators did last night is redistribute wealth upwards to high income earners and large businesses at the cost of possibly destabilizing healthcare, raise taxes on some regular folks and adding at least $1.5T to the deficit. I’d like to hear an argument as to why that makes sense because the only possible redeeming quality is many middle class folks get a modest break but it’s at a high cost.

 

[kpt018]

It passed 51-49

Corker has cemented is legacy as a fake deficit hawk. He could have prevented it from leaving committee. He could have lobbied other Republicans to vote no.

McCain has completely tarnished his legacy. He kept calling for a return to normalcy but he voted to pass this think at 2am on Saturday with hand written amendments on the bill

Can you believe that McConnell and many other republicans are claiming this will be revenue neutral, which flies in the face of every serious analysis?

Of course we can because we know they’re intellectually dead!

 

[Limbo Pete]

Can you believe that McConnell and many other republicans are claiming this will be revenue neutral, which flies in the face of every serious analysis?

Of course we can because we know they’re intellectually dead!

Flies in the face of basic, rational sense. There is no way, nor has there ever been a way, on God's green Earth that cutting colossal amounts of taxes magically pays for itself.
I know it won't, you know it won't, everyone knows it won't. But the point isn't for it to magically pay for itself; never has been. The point is to funnel tax dollars to private interests while wrecking the budget so thoroughly that cutting popular social programs becomes a necessity. Win win.

 

[kpt018]

Flies in the face of basic, rational sense. There is no way, nor has there ever been a way, on God's green Earth that cutting colossal amounts of taxes magically pays for itself.
I know it won't, you know it won't, everyone knows it won't. But the point isn't for it to magically pay for itself; never has been. The point is to funnel tax dollars to private interests while wrecking the budget so thoroughly that cutting popular social programs becomes a necessity. Win win.

All true. Makes me wonder if entitlements are next, like some senators have said (Rubio among others).

 

[kpt018]

The political calculus could be that they know it’s unpopular and will have negative effects but they are delivering to donors and will have their support going forward. They’ll lose seats in 2018 and maybe lose control of a house but failure would have had the same result. Maybe they’re willing to accept future political losses to deliver this to donors. Plus we know a lot of the country voted R no matter what. With Trump in office maybe they’d even like a Democrat president and can spend 4 years obstructing.

Just a theory. Dangerous because they can end up with President Sanders.

 

[OverCoronavirus Pressure]

By Jove, a splendid job by these fellows! Capital.

 

[ShadowRun]

All true. Makes me wonder if entitlements are next, like some senators have said (Rubio among others).

Do you think entitlements should be restructured? Or are you ok with where they are at now

 

[Limbo Pete]

The political calculus could be that they know it’s unpopular and will have negative effects but they are delivering to donors and will have their support going forward. They’ll lose seats in 2018 and maybe lose control of a house but failure would have had the same result. Maybe they’re willing to accept future political losses to deliver this to donors. Plus we know a lot of the country voted R no matter what. With Trump in office maybe they’d even like a Democrat president and can spend 4 years obstructing.

Just a theory. Dangerous because they can end up with President Sanders.

I think it's a straight gamble. Do as much as possible now and hope the in-built advantage this cycle prevents losses or maybe even picks something up. We're at a juncture where the investment in gerrymandering is being put to the test. If they can ride/work the system to carry in 2018, we'll get a similar effort to this tax shit directed at key entitlements imo. In any case, the wealth windfall from tonight is victory enough.

 

[kpt018]

Do you think entitlements should be restructured? Or are you ok with where they are at now

Restructured? Depends on the details and the how but yes I do. I’d like to see it sustainable and reach further.

Republicans would almost certainly cut it, privatize it or just gut it beyond recognition, but I guess I can hold out hope I’m wrong.

 

[kpt018]

I think it's a straight gamble. Do as much as possible now and hope the in-built advantage this cycle prevents losses or maybe even picks something up. We're at a juncture where the investment in gerrymandering is being put to the test. If they can ride/work the system to carry in 2018, we'll get a similar effort to this tax shit directed at key entitlements imo. In any case, the wealth windfall from tonight is victory enough.

That’s probably more likely. Get a “win” and deal with everything else later. Maybe I’m giving them too much credit. We know losing wasn’t an option.

 

[curryjunkie]

The funniest part is by the time 2022 rolls around and democrats have control of the government again and this tax plan is tanking America the scum GOP will do what they always do and point fingers at the democrats and say "this is their fault."

And in clockwork fashion the red state republicans, like the typical fucking morons they are, will eat it up like candy.

If this is what people expected by MAGA they have a rude awakening coming.

The democrats need to bash these morons in the skull daily with this tax plan and make it known what the GOP is doing. They're not even hiding it anymore, it's completely blatant who they serve and it's not 99% of America. Let's not forget they're talking about getting rid of Medicare next.

Thanks red state morons for continuing to vote for these anti American pieces of rat shit

thats exactly what will happen

 

[Throwin Bombs]

It passed 51-49

Corker has cemented is legacy as a fake deficit hawk. He could have prevented it from leaving committee. He could have lobbied other Republicans to vote no.

McCain has completely tarnished his legacy. He kept calling for a return to normalcy but he voted to pass this think at 2am on Saturday with hand written amendments on the bill

Wonderful news, less of my money going to the government where it can be wasted on programs I don't agree with. I can't wrap my head around the type of person that wants to voluntarily give more money back to the government but hence you.

McCain is a clown and its funny that he's now the savior of the anti republicans. You can have him.

 

[kpt018]

Wonderful news, less of my money going to the government where it can be wasted on programs I don't agree with. I can't wrap my head around the type of person that wants to voluntarily give more money back to the government but hence you.

McCain is a clown and its funny that he's now the savior of the anti republicans. You can have him.

Why do people have a hard time understanding that nothing in this bill deals with “waste”? Raising revenue and waste/corruption are two different things.