Greatest Half Guard Thread Ever

[guardpasser]

Note from Aesopian: I split this off the Goal Setting thread, since it turns out my goal to work on half guard is very interesting.​

good plan,
you might also get into bad positions and try to work to the two positions you want, that way you train yourself to go there automatically.

 

[Knock Out Ned]

Here's my match this past weekend at Abu Dhabi Pro in Houston. I will call it flying half guard to toe hold.

 

[Aesopian]

Good idea, guardpasser. Thanks.

I've got some ideas I wanted to flesh out. They're mostly speculation right now, since I haven't really put them into action yet. But I want to write them out so I can commit them to paper (as it were) and make myself think about them. We'll see how they pan out and how they change as they're put to the test.

My problem with the half guard where you fight for the underhook and move to the back is that I really, really hate being crushed and I really, really, really hate being crossfaced. And I've never been able to play it without getting crushed and crossfaced, even if I succeed. That's why I've developed a half butterfly game and switch to butterfly and x-guard so much -- I want to get them the hell off me.

Aside from pet peeves, I've also simply had a hard time with the two most important aspects: getting the underhook and turning on my side. My arms tend get trapped and stuck in bad spots. Without the underhook, I'm stuck on my back. Again, the half butterfly game remedies this since I can play it flat with an overhook.

But still, it's nagged me. I see other small guys play this half guard extremely well. It's a highly technical game, so I must be missing that proper technique, or at least not have it ingrained properly.

If I'm ever to get into this game, I'll need to address my two main concerns, being crushed flat and crossfaced. Solving this, the underhook should come more easily along with the rest of the game. I think I need to look earlier and see why I'm ending up in bad posture and position.

Whenever someone asks me how to get out of terrible positions or nearly finished submissions, I tell them it's like a boxer asking how to undo the last punch that hit him. You're too late and you're either in for a tough battle or you're done. I'm applying that same attitude to my half guard positioning. The real solution is awareness, avoidance and fixing problems before they're really problems.

I have the bad habit of not fighting for the underhook before they've settled their weight. By that point, they're fighting for superior grips and underhooks of their own. Getting a good half butterfly only made this worse since then I really didn't care if I had the underhook. I've got to break this habit and force myself to be more aggressive.

There are a couple tools that'll likely help me have more time to setup a proper half guard:

- Getting my knee against there hip to maintain space. Saulo teaches this in his first set, and it's part of the z-guard Leo Kirby does.
- Framing posture, with a forearm across their neck and the other hand on the biceps (paw grip). This keeps their weight off and blocks the crossface.
- Double paw, for when I really don't want to get crossfaced.

Using these together puts them in a sort of "long range" half guard. This position gives me time to turn on my side while staying safe before diving in deep for the underhook.

I have more thoughts on what to do once I'm diving deep, but I'll save those for later. I need to start getting there in the first place.

 

[mattemate]

Here's my match this past weekend at Abu Dhabi Pro in Houston. I will call it flying half guard to toe hold.

Sweet!

 

[Jimmy Cerra]

Sorry for the thread hijack. Aesopian, that's exactly what I try to do as well. In fact, when I started I was the typical top-position wrestler guy. This hampered my development so I decided to try always pulling guard in practice. This really helped me get my guard up to spec despite my short legs and arms. That's one reason why I feel people avoid practicing from their back, because they are "uncomfortable," are idiots for purposely limiting themselves.

- Traditional and deep half guard with the underhook.

I used both traditional and half butterfly half guard against a big guy (who had over 50 pounds on me) tonight. Usually I use traditional half guard since I'm good at it and it works well against people around my size and skill. Against bigger guys or when I'm very tired, I found that it works less effectively. So I used the half butterfly half guard and it seemed to work very effectively against him.

Does the half butterfly half guard work better against bigger guys who like to throw their weight around, while the traditional half works when he is nominal sized enough that you can get leverage? That is, the half butterfly works when they drive into you while the traditional half works when they try to pull away?

 

[winterbike]

Does anyone have a page to check in this thread for working from the flat half? When your opponent has head and arm control? Also any good counters to the smash pass? When your opponent is down on his hip and applying a ton of shoulder pressure into your face in order to long step his foot out of your half.

Head and arm control: Caio Terra has a great one from there. Let's say the opponent has your left arm in the head and arm, and his left arm is on the right side of your neck/face. You start by moving your legs so your right leg is completely on the outside on the right side (so it blocks his left leg, like it does for an upa). Then you use your right arm to push his left arm against your face and make sure it stays there (so he can't base with it). Bridge to your right, and voilà, you're on top.

It saved my ass many many many times.

 

[Aesopian]

As I said, half butterfly guard is my solution to guys who drive in and crush me, so it definitely works well there. The times I do play the traditional game is when they give me too much room and don't use their weight properly.

But I'm not the proper measure of these two guards. Half butterfly works even better when they sit back since then you have room to play, and I know plenty of guys who can do traditional half guard when getting smashed by bigger guys.

 

[Knock Out Ned]

Sweet!

Thanks. It was hard finding the time to train for this competition because of graduate school. I know you understand.

I go into the gym completely exhausted after spending all day in classes and in the clinic.

It can be done though.

 

[codemonkey76]

i've used a fairly deep half guard from day dot not knowing if that is a bad or good thing, but i have had pretty good success in getting under them and normally escaping out the back once i get their hips across me. I have always like playing the bottom and that's were i am comfortable, it really used to bug me when we would start from the knees and instead of the guy tackling me to the ground where i can pull guard, if they sat back so i was in their guard i would be at a loss...

That is why i am gonna concentrate on top game for a while.

 

[Aesopian]

For future reference and easy access, I'm posting a transition into deep half guard I want to work on:

You have half guard on their left leg. Your right hand is ready to defend the crossface.

Your left arm is underhooking their right leg. Ideally, this would be really deep, with their leg on your shoulder, but realistically you​

 

[codemonkey76]

nice, i love this move

 

[Aesopian]

Keep in mind that what I've shared so far is mostly untested. What you're seeing is my private thought processes made public. I think this stuff will work well based on experience with similar techniques and concepts, but it's still supposition until I put in the footwork and try it on a bunch of guys in sparring.

 

[Gavin LeFever]

I think the most common thing you'll find when going for that transition is that (from the gi pics POV) the top man will sit his right knee through and slide that knee under your hip. He'll really want the crossface too.

I always think you're better at the underhook -> take the back or stand neutral game than the edges and coming out the back, but that is most likely my wrestling experience speaking. A lot of people have a good time with the edge and coming through the legs so I'm not going to tell anyone not to go for it.

Saulo's no-gi dvds has a great half guard part with coming out the butt and out the back. he uses awesome set-ups and I think he uses a half butterfly when he comes under the butt so he can get a x-guard kinda thing where he cradles your leg over his shoulder. The top man has no base at all at this point and he can use his butterfly hook to elevate and finish his sweeps. That's why I think butterfly half is better than normal half for going out the butt. You have the hook to lift them.

I'll watch it tonight and give you better input.

 

[Zankou]

For future reference and easy access, I'm posting a transition into deep half guard I want to work

When they go for the crossface, duck your head and swim your right hand under their armpit.

Shove their armpit and ribs to send their upper body away.[/INDENT]

The key is getting my hips underneath their hips. From there I can lift them and break their base. I really need to commit to the movement of switching and throwing my hips under them. Keep scooting, shrimping, bumping under like I want to go out the back door.]

.

I'm hitting this transition all day now. The key for me is actually to control the crossfacing arm and drive it over you (you can use both hands, as if you were going for a kimura -- in fact the kimura attempt helps set this up). Then you switch to pushing against the armpit, so that he is sprawled over your body. You will get the leg easy if that happens. I "hoist" the guy up with my legs, pulling them towards me as I push the armpit. Even if you don't have the leg, the guy's hips are raised up. It's exactly like pulling x guard. In fact you can pull x guard, if you so choose, but it's not necessary. I just scoot out the back door mostly, with the guy pushed into "wheelbarrow" mode.

Like in that picture, if Leo just pulls his knees to his chest as he pulls on the leg and pushes the armpit, it will elevate the guy and make it very easy to slip under him. You can actually sweep the guy over your head from there, but I've been unable to hit that sweep as of yet. The point is to get the guy's hips raised high up, then he's doomed.

I am starting out my half guard with a DLR/Reverse DLR type position, what I think of as "open half guard." As the half guard gets tighter, I use Z guard to freeze the opponent with space. I use that space to work around for an attack, either arm dragging the near arm, kimuraing the far arm, grabbing the foot, or taking an underhook and "kicking" through. There is so much to do ... the point is that the z guard gives you time and space to set it all up and launch into it.

I'm also playing a lot of "shin" guard by passing the lapel and trapping the guy's shin against my own. Have not had great success with finishing from that position, but still fun.

A key thing for my z guard is to point the trapping foot *down*, just as gustavo machado shows for the quarter guard. The principles are quite similar.

So much fun with the half guard these days. It's ridiculous how many variations and sweeps you can play. It's finally getting some teeth to it.

 

[tudor_bjj]

My problem with the half guard where you fight for the underhook and move to the back is that I really, really hate being crushed and I really, really, really hate being crossfaced. And I've never been able to play it without getting crushed and crossfaced, even if I succeed. That's why I've developed a half butterfly game and switch to butterfly and x-guard so much -- I want to get them the hell off me.

HG is my strongest position. I always use the knee to keep them away. Saulo shows this in one of his instr. When I set my posture I release it. Go as much under him as you can, from the first time.

 

[fatu]

Shove their armpit and ribs to send their upper body away.[/INDENT]

once im here i almost always go for the kneebar. i just swing my right leg out and around while doing the omoplata scorpion hook motion with my left leg to force them over and off of me.

it is super duper awesome and works almost everytime for at least a sweep if i cant finish the kneebar.

 

[Aesopian]

I'm hitting this transition all day now. The key for me is actually to control the crossfacing arm and drive it over you (you can use both hands, as if you were going for a kimura -- in fact the kimura attempt helps set this up). Then you switch to pushing against the armpit, so that he is sprawled over your body. You will get the leg easy if that happens. I "hoist" the guy up with my legs, pulling them towards me as I push the armpit. Even if you don't have the leg, the guy's hips are raised up. It's exactly like pulling x guard. In fact you can pull x guard, if you so choose, but it's not necessary. I just scoot out the back door mostly, with the guy pushed into "wheelbarrow" mode.

Like in that picture, if Leo just pulls his knees to his chest as he pulls on the leg and pushes the armpit, it will elevate the guy and make it very easy to slip under him. You can actually sweep the guy over your head from there, but I've been unable to hit that sweep as of yet. The point is to get the guy's hips raised high up, then he's doomed.

I am starting out my half guard with a DLR/Reverse DLR type position, what I think of as "open half guard." As the half guard gets tighter, I use Z guard to freeze the opponent with space. I use that space to work around for an attack, either arm dragging the near arm, kimuraing the far arm, grabbing the foot, or taking an underhook and "kicking" through. There is so much to do ... the point is that the z guard gives you time and space to set it all up and launch into it.

I'm also playing a lot of "shin" guard by passing the lapel and trapping the guy's shin against my own. Have not had great success with finishing from that position, but still fun.

A key thing for my z guard is to point the trapping foot *down*, just as gustavo machado shows for the quarter guard. The principles are quite similar.

So much fun with the half guard these days. It's ridiculous how many variations and sweeps you can play. It's finally getting some teeth to it.

I was hoping you'd stop in. I know you've been working on this and I wanted to hear what you'd found out so far.

What you said reaffirms several things I was thinking. My approach to deep half guard has been to apply many of the same concepts I learned with half butterfly and x-guard. This includes:

- underhooking the free (or posting) leg and pulling it up on my shoulder
- crunching my legs to my chest to pull them over me
- diving deep underneath with commitment
- getting my hips under their hips
- lifting their hips and keeping them elevated
- rocking them back and forth so they can't settle down
- making them lurch forward into a "Superman" posture (both hands outstretched)
- traffic cop the armpit/ribs to keep them away
- putting their weight on their hands keeps them from crossfacing
- stretching their legs apart to break their base
- keeping moving out the back door and trying to get to my elbow

I can probably think of a few more but that's most of it. These apply to half guard, half butterfly, full butterfly, reverse De la Riva, x-guard and probably many more as yet unnamed guards. It applies to the "deep z-guard" you and I are working on.

Leo's full sequence is actually going all the way to x-guard through the "leglock guard" or "one-leg guard" or whatever you want to call it:

http://www.aesopian.com/18/marcelos-half-to-x-guard-transition/

Denis Hallman shows a similar sequence in the new Jiu-Jitsu Cookbook DVD he did with Monson. He does a "legoplata" into heelhook but the entry is the same. I know the kneebar fatu is talking about and it's a good one. I may play with it once I'm succeeding with the position and move on to submissions.

Last Sunday I was working with a friend, drilling some stuff. We were finishing up and about to spar when I remembered the deep half guard.

I'd been thinking about it since it's come up more lately. People have been asking me to do a tutorial on Wilson Reis' sweep in the EGO tournament highlight (which I haven't done since I don't really use it or have anything original to add). NHBGear had a thread going dedicated to Jeff Glover's half guard game. MMA.tv has weekly threads on going out the back door from half guard. Leo Kirby even sent me footage of Jorge Vidal teaching his half guard, which I put up on my journal.

But I'd already worked on enough technique for the night so I sparred instead of drilling it.

Within the first minute, my previously injured ankle gets reinjured. Pretty badly. It's throbbing in pain and I can't use it for anything. No more butterfly hooks or closed guard. And where do I find myself? Half guard. So what do? Put the knee in and go deep.

Surprisingly, it worked great. It had much the same feel as x-guard but with little different quirks. It felt right and I decided to work on it more.

Afterwards I remembered how I'd seen something like this in Baret Yoshida's book/DVD. Here are some screenshots.

Baret is in half guard.

He bumps them up with his framing hand and escapes his hips so he can bring his knee across their chest as he underhooks the free leg.

He elevates them and gets underneath using several pressures at once. He dives under, pulling himself in with the arm under the leg and switching his hips. His other hand grabs over their shoulder and yanks them forward. His knee on the chest lift them and carries them forward. He also crunches and pulls his knees towards his head to lift them. You can see how their legs are coming off the ground as he gets underneath their hips.

This position, with the knee across their chest while I'm underhooking deep under their leg, is the one I want to focus on.

Baret swivels his bottom leg to bring his knee under their hips. He's now in a position similar to reverse DLR. The knee and shin under their butt/thigh keeps them elevated and he can kick with it to lift them and send them further forward.

Jorge does the same thing with his knee:

http://www.aesopian.com/164/jorges-half-guard/

Notice how he's spread their legs to break their base and how they have most of their weight forward on their hands. This makes the next step easy.

He sits up and gets to his hands. He's still using his shin to kick their leg away. You can also use the other leg to step on the inside of their knee (not shown in this screenshot though).

This will be a very familiar movement if you've played x-guard or favored a similar butterfly guard sweep. That's why I like it so much.

Doing a technical stand-up and taking them down to finish.

The main points in Baret's technique that I want to steal are being deep under their free leg while having my knee across their chest, and getting the other knee up under their hips to keep them elevated. These effectively keep them from crushing me, which makes me very happy, and I can play the position almost exactly like I would x-guard, so I'm not having to learn everything from scratch.

Like you said, having the knee in also gives you time (and leverage) to set things up. Wilson's sweep from half guard is much like the one Baret shows (expect he doesn't stand up all the way). But he gets it by explosively flying under them and driving up from below. I don't have that speed and power. So the z-guard knee looks promising as a replacement.

 

[Aesopian]

I think the most common thing you'll find when going for that transition is that (from the gi pics POV) the top man will sit his right knee through and slide that knee under your hip. He'll really want the crossface too.

I always think you're better at the underhook -> take the back or stand neutral game than the edges and coming out the back, but that is most likely my wrestling experience speaking. A lot of people have a good time with the edge and coming through the legs so I'm not going to tell anyone not to go for it.

Saulo's no-gi dvds has a great half guard part with coming out the butt and out the back. he uses awesome set-ups and I think he uses a half butterfly when he comes under the butt so he can get a x-guard kinda thing where he cradles your leg over his shoulder. The top man has no base at all at this point and he can use his butterfly hook to elevate and finish his sweeps. That's why I think butterfly half is better than normal half for going out the butt. You have the hook to lift them.

I'll watch it tonight and give you better input.

I think our experiences flavor each of our opinions, but I get where you're coming from. I used to not think much of coming out through the legs, but (as I wrote above), I see how it can work now that I've learned parallel game with my different butterfly hook guards. I don't think it a style that will work for a lot of guys until they've got about an intermediate skill level (which is when the greater ability to use momentum and combinations makes it viable).

The underhook and take the back game is included in my goals too though. I think they'll compliment each other well, since I see opportunities for one when they block the other.

I agree that the half butterfly hook makes this game easier, since you can use it to create space and lift them off. It also works into x-guard better. But like I said, I've got an injury that prevents me from using that hook, so I'm trying to find another way to play.

 

[Zankou]

once im here i almost always go for the kneebar. i just swing my right leg out and around while doing the omoplata scorpion hook motion with my left leg to force them over and off of me.

it is super duper awesome and works almost everytime for at least a sweep if i cant finish the kneebar.

I currently have a black eye from gettting kicked in the face as I went for this exact kneebar setup.

That said, you are right, it's an awesome move, and sitting right there from the z guard.

On Kesting's dvd he describes this move as an entrance into the general leglock game. And so Kirby's move into the "leglock" guard is his approach. Myself, I tend to prefer the kneebar (particularly since the leglock guard isn't that great when you can't use heelhooks), so that's what I find myself trying for. You could also toehold them ... basically the whole leglock game is there.

 

[Zankou]

Surprisingly, it worked great. It had much the same feel as x-guard but with little different quirks. It felt right and I decided to work on it more.

Afterwards I remembered how I'd seen something like this in Baret Yoshida's book/DVD. Here are some screenshots.

The main points in Baret's technique that I want to steal are being deep under their free leg while having my knee across their chest, and getting the other knee up under their hips to keep them elevated. These effectively keep them from crushing me, which makes me very happy, and I can play the position almost exactly like I would x-guard, so I'm not having to learn everything from scratch.

Like you said, having the knee in also gives you time (and leverage) to set things up. Wilson's sweep from half guard is much like the one Baret shows (expect he doesn't stand up all the way). But he gets it by explosively flying under them and driving up from below. I don't have that speed and power. So the z-guard knee looks promising as a replacement.

Yeah, this is the game exactly. For me, instead of explosively flying under the guy, which can be hard if you are not a little dynamo, I tend to have better luck by dominating the crossfacing arm and use that to create the space. Baret just slides under it in that picture, but I like to really push the elbow and sprawl the guy over me with it. Just grab it with both hands, and either kimura it or yank it right over, use whatever momentum he gives. With the gi, it's a lot easier to control that arm. Z guard gives you a lot of time and leverage to do this, though it can also be done without it (takes more struggling). Then you get in the position Baret shows in those pics. You have stated teh correct with elevating his hips with your knees.

Saulo's new half guard dvd shows how you typically can play that position as either an "x guard" type position or a "single leg" kind, depending on what kind of stance your opponent is taking.

That video on your website from Jorge is fascinating ... it really gives good insight into what the half guard is all about. I feel like it gets into the heart of the game, though it takes time to understand what he is showing.

 

[Aesopian]

Andreh Anderson has a solid half guard sweep sequence up on GrappleArts. I am reposting the beginning, where he shows his starting position for easy reference:

This is the starting position. My knee is just over his hip bone and my hands are "checking" his arms to prevent either the underhook or the cross face. I have to thank Ryan Gregg for the detail of the left hand checking the opponent's right arm to prevent the underhook.

If he tries to back out of the position, I can usually get in deep and get the underhook (that foot trap in the next picture is tighter than it looks), but if he forces his way back, I switch to an open guard (usually shins on the biceps).

My feet are hooked in the back like this.

When you feel that you have the opportunity to enter, go for your underhook and drive your left shoulder as close to his right hip as possible.

I underhook and grab the belt, but I am working on changing that grip to my opponent's left trap instead (as per advice Shawn Willians gave me). Grabbing the far trap feels a bit awkward for me, but I need to add it because it prevents him from overhooking your arm and getting the choke.

Now pull your knees forward as you scoot down as much toward his back as you can. You want to be as small as possible so that his hips are over you.

I now initiate the attack and keep the opponent off balance by rocking him. The rocking means I am always trying to get his body higher and higher over my upper body. I want his hips over my chest, if possible, so he feels light and I have an easy path to my knees or his back. I also go for that sweep to my left, and if he bases to prevent it, I rock the other way and the momentum helps me get to my knees.​

 

[Zankou]

Good stuff. Jean Jacques teaches playing the z guard that Andre way, with the blocking knee shallow on the hip. It is an awesome way to control the entry into the half guard until you are sure you will establish a strong position.

I definitely don't like the low underhook. The JJ way is to raise your elbow really high --- that's the whole point of the underhook. He flares his elbow super high. In that picture, Andre isn't putting any pressure on the guy's tricep. It works much better to crank it, almost as though you were doing a sitout type maneuver (driving him forward with a high elbow).

Also thinking about trying the "web" underhook, with your hand grabbing the back of the arm, elbow tight. Slickness.

 

[Gavin LeFever]

I think our experiences flavor each of our opinions, but I get where you're coming from. I used to not think much of coming out through the legs, but (as I wrote above), I see how it can work now that I've learned parallel game with my different butterfly hook guards. I don't think it a style that will work for a lot of guys until they've got about an intermediate skill level (which is when the greater ability to use momentum and combinations makes it viable).

The underhook and take the back game is included in my goals too though. I think they'll compliment each other well, since I see opportunities for one when they block the other.

I agree that the half butterfly hook makes this game easier, since you can use it to create space and lift them off. It also works into x-guard better. But like I said, I've got an injury that prevents me from using that hook, so I'm trying to find another way to play.

I just don't like scooping the hand under the thigh in half guard because it remembers the top man to close his legs off. If you watch the Saulo no-gi DVDs on HG, the techs 1-4 show how he has his tight compact top HG. Most guys I roll with use this so their free leg is tight and not based out making a hole. If I saw that often I would come out the butt more. Usually when I try this, they pinch their legs and trap my arm, then I can't block much the crossface.

Also, if top man's legs are not tight, you can put easily the full guard.

One move I love in HG is a little ankle-lacer. I'm in bottom HG with a decent underhook and my free hand is protect my neck for the crossface. I am on my side and I want the underhook high as normal.

So I am trapping his right leg BTW. My right leg is triangled and bent over the back of his knee and my left leg is just finishing the triangle. Take your left leg and step over his right leg and slide your heel down to his ankle. Use your ankle to pull his heel like you pull your heel to the butt. Don't be mean and bust his knee though, because here you can jack him up.

Come tot he top and scoop your hands and it's the position as if you just hit the wrestling Navy takedown. He is flat on his back and you pass that is left of his half guard.

It's like when I'm bottom side control and I turn into my opponent and turtle up a little and attack the single leg. If I pull his knee he can spin and face me and sprawl all day. If I slide my hand down and "snake" his ankle, he cant spin or he will blow his knee. Since he can't spin, I cut my angle and I take the top. In HG I just do this technique with my foot so I can keep my underhook on his back. You could just turtle up and face and do the single form HG but you want to use the advantage.

On the HG sweep, the only real defense is him back-stepping into a sit-out position and working the passes where he is facing your legs, almost in "eddie bravo twister side control."

Another leg-lacer is when your guy is bottom turtled and you want to make the hooks. I want to hook his left leg so I put my left knee outside his left knee almost like wrestling's down position and I'm the top man. I use my right leg and just step over his left ankle. I use my heel to pull his left leg over my left leg and I've got the hook. This comes straight from college wrestling and you go straight into the leg ride of your choice.

If it's hard to make the 2nd hook, you can make a lockdown on the leg and ride 1 leg or just spin off and calf-crusher his trapped leg. Or like me you can make the banana splits.

If you want to control the leg, take the ankle.

 

[Zankou]

I just don't like scooping the hand under the thigh in half guard because it remembers the top man to close his legs off. If you watch the Saulo no-gi DVDs on HG, the techs 1-4 show how he has his tight compact top HG. Most guys I roll with use this so their free leg is tight and not based out making a hole. If I saw that often I would come out the butt more. Usually when I try this, they pinch their legs and trap my arm, then I can't block much the crossface.

This is why I like to control the crossfacing arm as the setup to the position. If you control the crossfacing arm and drive it over you, he doesn't have much chance to keep his legs tight, because you are spinning his upper body too far and he can't come back. If he does suck his leg tight somehow, you can drive into him for a sweep since he has no base from his arm or leg on that side.

You really need a gi to get that much control over the arm though. Also a gi makes it much easier to grab his pants at the knee and end up in my preferred "elbow and knee" dominating position.

The time I get into trouble with this is when I can't get both arms into the space between his leg and his crossfacing arm -- one of them is still on the underhook side. Then you are screwed. Hard to do anything if you just have one arm and the guy is laying on top of you. I need to figure out some options from there, as it seems to be the most serious problem I run into (a purple belt consistently catches me in this hapless position, then sits there working for the kimura or mount).