Harley Davidson closes plant after Trump tax cuts, Shareholders got paid, which should trickle down.

[Ruprecht]

This is a good post, when the dust settles I think dumping millions into electric bikes might be closer to a nail in the coffin than a savior

The "street" water cooled models are the first time there's been a learner legal Harley available to new riders here in Australia. It's their best selling model.
Off shoring production to India made it relatively affordable too.
They may not sell in the US, but in terms of attracting new riders to the brand and a more diverse market globally, it was a smart move. Only question is whether they'll water down the "HD" brand too much, but then they've sold almost everything under the sun with HD branding, so maybe it'll be resilient.

 

[second sight]

The "street" water cooled models are the first time there's been a learner legal Harley available to new riders here in Australia. It's their best selling model.
Off shoring production to India made it relatively affordable too.
They may not sell in the US, but in terms of attracting new riders to the brand and a more diverse market globally, it was a smart move. Only question is whether they'll water down the "HD" brand too much, but then they've sold almost everything under the sun with HD branding, so maybe it'll be resilient.

When I bought my first Harley, production was limited, you had to prove you lived within x number miles of the dealership and you got whatever bike came in next. No choice of color etc...the used bikes sold for almost sticker price. Then they flooded the market sold to everyone and here we are, too many workers, too many factories and too big of a correction to be able to satisfy the shareholders. They’ve raised from the heeps before, we’ll see if they have another one in them (I personally think it’s too much restructuring) somebody will likely end up resurrecting the bones

I haven’t heard much about the street or even the water cooled they came out with several years ago, stigma thing here I think

 

[second sight]

Rup I have a kid living in Australia for about a year now BTW

 

[JonesBones]

The US seems to find reasons. Can't remember a time were we weren't using violence to impose our will. We're undeniably strong.

I wouldn't know about NK other than it's only our sympathy for SK that keeps us from squashing them/him.

Fuck China. I was just asking about when would be a good time to attack them economically. If it all. And your position seems to be that everyone loses.

I do wonder how things would have been different if Bernie Sanders or somebody like that was pushing the tariffs. Trump pissed off everyone on that one. The left because he is Trump, and greedy people like me who were furious over what it did to the market.

And I do think that is how Trump played it. He was in a good position. The market has been up so much since he took office he has leeway. When people were bringing up how the tariffs were hurting the market he would just shake it off by saying, "The market has been up a significant amount since I have been in office." The previous market success allowed him to get away with it. Maybe he really is good at deals. Somewhat at least.

 

[second sight]

Explain the trickle down theory to me again please.

Just like with Harley, if it has to be explained you won’t understand

 

[second sight]

I do wonder how things would have been different if Bernie Sanders or somebody like that was pushing the tariffs. Trump pissed off everyone on that one. The left because he is Trump, and greedy people like me who were furious over what it did to the market.

And I do think that is how Trump played it. He was in a good position. The market has been up so much since he took office he has leeway. When people were bringing up how the tariffs were hurting the market he would just shake it off by saying, "The market has been up a significant amount since I have been in office." The previous market success allowed him to get away with it. Maybe he really is good at deals. Somewhat at least.

Think about this, China was basically North Korea until bill Clinton got ahold of them

 

[Ruprecht]

When I bought my first Harley, production was limited, you had to prove you lived within x number miles of the dealership and you got whatever bike came in next. No choice of color etc...the used bikes sold for almost sticker price. Then they flooded the market sold to everyone and here we are, too many workers, too many factories and too big of a correction to be able to satisfy the shareholders. They’ve raised from the heeps before, we’ll see if they have another one in them (I personally think it’s too much restructuring) somebody will likely end up resurrecting the bones

I haven’t heard much about the street or even the water cooled they came out with several years ago, stigma thing here I think

The XG500 is $10K AUD here (still very expensive for an "entry level" model), while the cheapest XL883N Sportster is $13K and not learner legal. The XG500 is the third most popular learner bike (First is the NBC110 Honda scooter used by our Posties, which they chew through every year and hardly counts, and the second is the Yamaha WR450F which is rarely used as a road bike anyway).
Considering the role that first bikes have in terms of brand loyalty etc, it was a big problem for HD in reaching new riders.
Without the sort of learner restrictions seen in a lot of the world, I guess this wasn't something immediately apparent to HD (or they were mostly focused on the US market which is still over 60% of their sales), whereas the Japanese and European brands have been addressing it from the outset.

Rup I have a kid living in Australia for about a year now BTW

All the best. Hope they're enjoying it.

 

[second sight]

All the best. Hope they're enjoying it.

Too much, they just figured out how to extend their visa, I thought it was a year and done

Weird, you just have to pass a mirror test to get in the US, Australia requires a college degree for a visa

 

[MicroBrew]

lol at Harley Davidson. I hope all the riders disappear too.

There a lot of companies / brands that would love to have the kind of brand presence that H-D has. Harley really has no competitors. Indian is the one that comes closest.

 

[Ruprecht]

That $30 Million dollar recall for ABS problems on 175,000 bikes surely didn't help either.

Too much, they just figured out how to extend their visa, I thought it was a year and done

Weird, you just have to pass a mirror test to get in the US, Australia requires a college degree for a visa

Working visa? Yeah. All visa requirements were tightened up in 2015 from the prior "Big Australia" policies. Even tougher for permanent migrants, who need either large quantities of cash, desperately needed skills or some halfway measure of both along with better than university level English to be able to stay.

 

[Ruprecht]

There a lot of companies / brands that would love to have the kind of brand presence that H-D has. Harley really has no competitors. Indian is the one that comes closest.

Indian has been eating into HD's market share more than I'd imagined.
The Scout is supposed to be a good bike though, and it's sales are still growing here.

 

[JonesBones]

There a lot of companies / brands that would love to have the kind of brand presence that H-D has. Harley really has no competitors. Indian is the one that comes closest.

Yeah, I know. Harley Davidson is a huge name that is worth a lot on just that. It is kind of an intangible asset. Everything associated with Harleys. Warren Buffet said he loves Apple because of the "ecosystem" they created. That was a great word to describe it. Apple has created a great ecosystem. Buffett owns 5% of Apple. He says he would like to own all of it. He loves it. lol. It's kinda funny because Bill Gates is on Berkshire Hathaway's board. Anyway, Harley has something of an ecosystem too.

 

[Ruprecht]

Yeah, I know. Harley Davidson is a huge name that is worth a lot on just that. It is kind of an intangible asset. Everything associated with Harleys. Warren Buffet said he loves Apple because of the "ecosystem" they created. That was a great word to describe it. Apple has created a great ecosystem. Buffett owns 5% of Apple. He says he would like to own all of it. He loves it. lol. It's kinda funny because Bill Gates is on Berkshire Hathaway's board. Anyway, Harley has something of an ecosystem too.

I'd be interested in knowing how much HD made last year just licencing their logo.

 

[Joe_Armstrong]

Just like with Harley, if it has to be explained you won’t understand

So you will asses what I don't understand ?
That's a pretty impressive skill to have.

 

[Stoic1]

Just out of curiosity what HD did you have and what problems did it give you? My bikes have never given me issues outside of regular maintenance, replacing things that eventually need replacing. And of course, my stupidity.

An old Ironhead.

 

[MicroBrew]

Indian has been eating into HD's market share more than I'd imagined.
The Scout is supposed to be a good bike though, and it's sales are still growing here.

Indian is the only competitor to H-D, but Indian not being owned by the founders' descendants loses it heritage points.

 

[Ruprecht]

Indian is the only competitor to H-D, but Indian not being owned by the founders' descendants loses it heritage points.

Is their Scout the best selling model over there as well? Even though it has obvious retro styling, it's more like a V-Rod than the faux antiques in HD's main range. The Scout outsold the V-Rod by about 24% last year here, I wonder if that's mostly the lower price or the handling.

 

[Amerikuracana]

Trump wasn't smart enough not to be lead by the establishment once he got there. He needed friends and allies, and although it sounded like he knew what was good for America, economically, in a vague way, he didn't have a real enough plan to overcome what his party would push on him when he got in.

And *sigh* yes, if it continues, I will have to vote D again to keep the economy from massive collapse. Conservative economics is a repeated failed expirament. What Trump was saying during his campaign, which he believed, btw, was not conservative economics.

 

[ElKarlo]

Harley has been struggling for several years, there are several articles that corrected this bullshit when business insider ran this or a similar one several weeks ago

Yeah they've had problems with decline sales and demographics for a while. This is why it's hard to listen to the media. They take stuff way out of context

 

[irish_thug]

An old Ironhead.

That doesn't surprise me. That is definitely a wrencher's bike.