Has humanity experienced a reset?

[GordoBarraBJJ]

 

[andnowweknow]

Sure, societies that were advanced for their time sometimes got wiped, but they weren't advanced by modern standards.

If they were, there'd be evidence of electronics and plastics and numerous other types of things.

That is the same error in logic people use when applying life on Earth to what all other life in the universe must be like.

The style, scale and scope of some of the truly ancient architecture in the world (Baalbek, Temples made from the ditch surrounding the sphinx, the Osireion, etc...), places I would argue have at least been somewhat misattributed, says to us that if nothing else, there was something going on in pre history (no records) that is very foreign to our current mode of technological progress.

History is not a linear progression and neither is advancement. Conceivably, two vastly different paths of technological innovation can be equally advanced yet sufficiently foreign to the other so as to seem almost invisible. For example, perhaps the reason a place like Giza, a marvel of engineering and even by today's standards a testament to the limits of building, is still difficult to explain without modern cranes is that while otherwise they may have been relatively primative their entire technology was geared completely different from a base level than our own.

 

[andnowweknow]

Lol. I remember when I first met my wife's step-dad shortly after I started dating her about 11 years ago. He and her mom had us over for dinner and he was telling me about Hancock's books and I was just like:

While he's clearly not been correct about everything, Hancock is likely to be vindicated in his general premise over time. The whole unveiling of the events by more mainstream entities (Holocene working group) surrounding Younger Dryas over the past decade and future work done in the matter are almost certain to lead to the conclusion that humanity in general barely made it through the period of 12.8 k ybp and 11.6k.

 

[aus101]

I think this seems more plausible. There perhaps were pre-civilization civilizations, that may have been advanced by ancient stsndards, and had insight to certain things that took our best mathmaticians until a few hundred years ago to figure out. But in terms of having the equivalent to modern electronics, motorized vehicles, communication devices, air and seacraft, etc, it seems highly improbable.

They seem pretty advanced to me.

The bottom layer doesn't look easy, those stones are massive. According to history this place was at best a Roman backwater.

 

[aus101]

Yep. Occam's razor says no to this theory.

Plastic is a bi-product of oil. We only use oil thanks to a very specific set of events (England having ready access to easily extractable coal which they could transport along englands rivers and thus cause an "industrial Age", where the west goes from a wind power to a coal then oil one.

An ancient civilisation would not have advanced like Great Britain did and nor would they have used coal. No coal means no oil (as it was early coal era tech that enabled oil to be discovered as a potential fuel source, and it was all profitable and "economical" for the level of tech we had at the time).

No reason advanced ancient civs would follow the same energy path. Making massive structures out of huge pieces of stone isn't even logical for a coal/oil civilisation, wasted energy all round.

 

[andnowweknow]

Plastic is a bi-product of oil. We only use oil thanks to a very specific set of events (England having ready access to easily extractable coal which they could transport along englands rivers and thus cause an "industrial Age", where the west goes from a wind power to a coal then oil one.

An ancient civilisation would not have advanced like Great Britain did and nor would they have used coal. No coal means no oil (as it was early coal era tech that enabled oil to be discovered as a potential fuel source, and it was all profitable and "economical" for the level of tech we had at the time).

No reason advanced ancient civs would follow the same energy path. Making massive structures out of huge pieces of stone isn't even logical for a coal/oil civilisation, wasted energy all round.

Good post and props for the nuanced thinking.

Occam's razor "simplest answer", given what we know about how most humans operate as well as the well documented catastrophic history of this planet would suggest quite the opposite of the inference you responded to by @Oeshon.

The simplest answer is that the Earth is a verified tumultuous environment with wild and as yet cause indeterminable climate swings happening at least a dozen times since humans beings have been around.

People overestimate our power to deal with natural events today, let alone people's of the past. The events that transpired around the period known as the younger dryas circa 12k years ago have no recorded history parallel. Whatever the cause, the planet came completely out of a 100k year steady ice age so fast that no known terrestrial event could have caused it.

 

[Oeshon]

Good post and props for the nuanced thinking.

Occam's razor "simplest answer", given what we know about how most humans operate as well as the well documented catastrophic history of this planet would suggest quite the opposite of the inference you responded to by @Oeshon.

No way. If there was a more advanced modern society in the past, we would have already found evidence of it by now.

Could there have been societies more sophisticated than we initially believed or knew? Yes. Was there another society making iphones and building cars? Nope.

 

[andnowweknow]

No way. If there was a more advanced modern society in the past, we would have already found evidence of it by now.

Could there have been societies more sophisticated than we initially believed or knew? Yes. Was there another society making iphones and building cars? Nope.

nobody is inferring that they were building modern style cars or iphones...both of which mind you, had they existed 12k years ago, would be utterly invisible to us today. If humans suddenly left San Francisco and came back in 2000k years, there would be almost no evidence that the Golden Gate bridge ever stood where it is. The metal would all be gone, perhaps some of the pavement currently holding beams on land would be mildly recognizable though utterly crumbled. The entire city would be unrecognizable outside of perhaps some platforms where buildings had stood crumbled under feet of earth.

The only thing that lasts for millennia is monumental stone work. Everything else is gone.

It's entirely possible that a former as yet unrecognized culture sprang up with thousands of years of development and all that is left is some stone work that we begrudgingly attribute to known cultures even though the evidence as to who built it truly isn't there. Many ancients sites are built upon other ancient sites, and many ancient buildings, for example, that are next to known dynastic Egyptian buildings, get attributed to the same builder...for no other reason than they are next to something we have a grasp on.

 

[Your Account]

The only thing that lasts for millennia is monumental stone work. Everything else is gone.

Is that really true ?
So for example skyscrapes are all gone in about what 1000 years if they would be abandoned now ?
Will our todays structures be also in place in such year span of few thousands years from now ?

 

[weich]

Im not sure, but isn't that what is described in that Indian text Oppenheimer describes? Nuclear war.


Is it possible? Yes, IMO it is very possible. Not sure on the evidence though.

Are you talking about Robert Oppenheimer? The Ghagavad Gita did not describe nuclear war.

 

[andnowweknow]

Is that really true ?
So for example skyscrapes are all gone in about what 1000 years if they would be abandoned now ?
Will our todays structures be also in place in such year span of few thousands years from now ?

within a century the golden gate bridge would fall into the bay. Especially things by the sea get corroded away incredibly fast, especially metals from the ocean moisture in the air.

In 1000 years, It is a 100% chance that every single metal structure that is held up by said metal will be gone in 1000 years without maintenance. Something like the Empire State building, which is largely comprised of Limestone, would be a a giant rubble heap as it would not withstand the weather and earthquakes that inevitably would occur over time. Metal especially just doesn't last unless under the most desiccated of conditions.

They are CONSTANTLY maintaining structures like the Golden Gate Bridge, going so far as to paint it from one side to the other and when complete they do it again just to add a layer to protect from the elements the ocean air brings.

 

[BearGrounds]

Are you talking about Robert Oppenheimer? The Ghagavad Gita did not describe nuclear war.

Oppenheiemer studied Sanskrit and was fascinated with the ancient Hindu texts. Even quotes the Gita when talking about his, and his collegue's reaction to the first successful detonation.



From a Q & A at Rochester University:

Student: “Was the bomb exploded at Alamogordo during the Manhattan Project the first one to be detonated?

Dr. Oppenheimer: “Well — yes. In modern times, of course.

That poster is probably referring to the Brahmastra, which are devastating weapons that are described in the ancient Sanskrit texts. Some people liken them to modern day nukes, based on the damage they're said to inflict.

Whether or not you believe them to actually be a reference to an ancient nuclear war, is up to you and your interpretation of the texts themselves.

 

[Gandzooka]

 

[ProBoxingInsidr]

It's possible there were some highly advanced societies. I recall a sophisticated clock or tool that was found once - but the details are fuzzy.
The thing I ponder is: if there was ever an advanced society that was somehow destroyed... why haven't they found any fossilized/ancient TVs?

Obama praised the kid and invited him to the white house

 

[weich]

Oppenheiemer studied Sanskrit and was fascinated with the ancient Hindu texts. Even quotes the Gita when talking about his, and his collegue's reaction to the first successful detonation.



From a Q & A at Rochester University:

Student: “Was the bomb exploded at Alamogordo during the Manhattan Project the first one to be detonated?

Dr. Oppenheimer: “Well — yes. In modern times, of course.

That poster is probably referring to the Brahmastra, which are devastating weapons that are described in the ancient Sanskrit texts. Some people liken them to modern day nukes, based on the damage they're said to inflict.

Whether or not you believe them to actually be a reference to an ancient nuclear war, is up to you and your interpretation of the texts themselves.

I see no reason to believe that ancient people had nuclear weapons.

 

[gspieler]

They find fossils of dead animals constantly, made of basic minerals, that nature has preserved for millions of years. I have a hard time believing that if entire advanced civilizations existed mere thousands of years ago, there is little to no evidence to support it.

 

[Davem10]

I've read a couple of his books, listened to a bunch of his interviews/lectures, etc. The guy has done research worth appreciating, imo. Even if you don't agree with the conclusions he draws.

His image gallery alone is pretty good shit:

Teotihuacan, which was discussed in the OP

But, anyway, it's not like this topic is limited to Graham Hancock. If you don't like the guy, examine the other evidence and the work of other people.

Any specific books ?

 

[moreorless87]

Plastic is a bi-product of oil. We only use oil thanks to a very specific set of events (England having ready access to easily extractable coal which they could transport along englands rivers and thus cause an "industrial Age", where the west goes from a wind power to a coal then oil one.

An ancient civilisation would not have advanced like Great Britain did and nor would they have used coal. No coal means no oil (as it was early coal era tech that enabled oil to be discovered as a potential fuel source, and it was all profitable and "economical" for the level of tech we had at the time).

No reason advanced ancient civs would follow the same energy path. Making massive structures out of huge pieces of stone isn't even logical for a coal/oil civilisation, wasted energy all round.

I think that's significantly overplaying access to coal in the UK relative to many other areas of the rest of the world personally, I mean doesn't Turkey for example have very large reserves close to the surface and that's right at the centre of the ancient world close to one of the examples the video gives. The big issue surely is that the advancement of scientific method allowed for the use of coal to become much more significant in the UK, Steam power, the Coking process, etc.

Honestly though beyond materials any highly advanced society would surely have left behind more infrascture evidence(building foundations, roads, piping for water, sewers, etc), I mean the claim that its now underwater to me simply doesn't make sense, why would an advanced civilisation limit itself only to low lieing costal areas of the world?

Again to me this seems like a legit area of research that's been latched onto by conspiracy theory types(the downright dumb claim in that original video that ice age megafuana "isn't in the textbooks", classic conspiracy theory bollocks), that civllisation might have deeper older roots than we currently know does not seem nearly so outlandish as the techno Atlantis fantasy talk.

 

[andnowweknow]

They find fossils of dead animals constantly, made of basic minerals, that nature has preserved for millions of years. I have a hard time believing that if entire advanced civilizations existed mere thousands of years ago, there is little to no evidence to support it.

There is evidence everywhere on every continent in the form of human construction that has been misattributed, we just don't have the historical context in which to place the identity of the builders properly.

When orthodox "history" is of the opinion that monumental construction only began with Sumer and Egypt circa 7k years ago, that is the baseline for everything, even if some of the structures attributed to those known cultures don't make sense within what we know about what they were likely capable of and what they were proven to have done.

 

[gspieler]

There is evidence everywhere on every continent in the form of human construction that has been misattributed, we just don't have the historical context in which to place the identity of the builders properly.

When orthodox "history" is of the opinion that monumental construction only began with Sumer and Egypt circa 7k years ago, that is the baseline for everything, even if some of the structures attributed to those known cultures don't make sense within what we know about what they were likely capable of and what they were proven to have done.

Sure, but what evidence suggests those civilizations were advanced? Can you cite specific examples? I don't think finding ruins of old structures made of stone, and the occassional mysterious tool they cant understand the function of, is enough to constitute a probability that there were advanced ancient civilizations.