Have we lost Turkey as an ally?

[Islam Imamate]

Again, he doesn’t need to do something blatant like being back beheadings to be accused of islamism (see my link).Turkey was a very different place when I visited in the 1990s.

https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/www...cular-turkey-sharia-is-gradually-taking-over/

True it was different in the 1990s, back when the military was launching a covert campaign of racial terror against Kurds which led to thousands being disappeared and tortured to death.

Yeah Erdogan is using the Islamic identity to bolster his populist base for authoritarian purposes but a paternal authoritarian stance is precisely part of Ataturk's legacy. He wasn't exactly happy about dissent either and did more or less what Erdogan is doing but in reverse, using "muh secularism!" to crush dissidents.

When Turkey was an ethnonationalist state which brutally oppressed its ethnic minorities the West had no issue, they were seen as a great ally. Now the leader mentions Islam a few too many times and suddenly he's literally Suleiman.

 

[Supereem]

True it was different in the 1990s, back when the military was launching a covert campaign of racial terror against Kurds which led to thousands being disappeared and tortured to death.

Yeah Erdogan is using the Islamic identity to bolster his populist base for authoritarian purposes but a paternal authoritarian stance is precisely part of Ataturk's legacy. He wasn't exactly happy about dissent either and did more or less what Erdogan is doing but fin reverse, using "muh secularism!" to crush dissidents.

When Turkey was an ethnonationalist state which brutally oppressed its ethnic minorities the West had no issue, they were seen as a great ally. Now the leader mentions Islam a few too many times and suddenly he's literally Suleiman.

There is still rampant racial discrimination and genocide denial in Turkey.

He might very well end up being the next Suleiman if he lives up to his and his cronies promise to “liberate” the former ottoman territories.

 

[Islam Imamate]

There is still rampant racial discrimination and genocide denial in Turkey.

True but it was worse under the secularists since they're legitimacy was based on Turkish nationalism and not religious solidarity. Erdogan actually improved the situation of Kurds initially but the Syrian civil War and the rise of Kurdish militancy soured those relations. Those events were outside his control though and even facilitated by the US. But even still are there any reports of Kurds being kidnapped by the military and tortured to death under Erdogan? Wouldn't be entirely surprised but so far haven't heard of anything like that which happened too often under the old secular elites.

He might very well end up being the next Suleiman if he lives up to his and his cronies promise to “liberate” the former ottoman territories.

Yes how dare he, only the US is allowed to "liberate" Turkey's neighbors.

 

[Supereem]

True but it was worse under the secularists since they're legitimacy was based on Turkish nationalism and not religious solidarity. Erdogan actually improved the situation of Kurds initially but the Syrian civil War and the rise of Kurdish militancy soured those relations. Those events were outside his control though and even facilitated by the US. But even still are there any reports of Kurds being kidnapped by the military and tortured to death under Erdogan? Wouldn't be entirely surprised but so far haven't heard of anything like that which happened too often under the old secular elites.

Yes how dare he, only the US is allowed to "liberate" Turkey's neighbors.

Of course how dare he. He is threatening to take lands that have zero Turks, never even had that many Turks living there during their rule, and lastly these places have a history out outright genocide whilst they were under Turkish control! How is that at all comparable to US foreign policy?

When the Turks first arrived in Anatolia it was like they wanted to compete with the ancient Babylonian and Assyrians to prove that they were the true kings of genocide.

The idea that we have a modern nation state that essentially celebrates (whilst simultaeniosuly denying) this history is absurd. Coupled with their war like rhetoric and illegal incursions into their neighbours territory, it becomes outright disgraceful. A true stain on this planet.

The Turks had an opportunity to become truly western people, join the EU and put behind their barbaric past. They did not take that opportunity.

 

[RockstarChris]

Thanksgiving is cancel until peace talks occur.

 

[cleetus]

the US would not help the kurds. The US needs turkey to house its nukes. besides what would "help" mean? they sure as fuck are not going to bomb Turkey.

We've been arming the Kurds for DECADES, and we continue to do so. The caveat is that we "allegedly" don't arm the ones within Turkish borders.

 

[Islam Imamate]

Of course how dare he. He is threatening to take lands that have zero Turks, never even had that many Turks living there during their rule, and lastly these places have a history out outright genocide whilst they were under Turkish control! How is that at all comparable to US foreign policy?

When the Turks first arrived in Anatolia it was like they wanted to compete with the ancient Babylonian and Assyrians to prove that they were the true kings of genocide.

The idea that we have a modern nation state that essentially celebrates (whilst simultaeniosuly denying) this history is absurd. Coupled with their war like rhetoric and illegal incursions into their neighbours territory, it becomes outright disgraceful. A true stain on this planet.

The Turks had an opportunity to become truly western people, join the EU and put behind their barbaric past. They did not take that opportunity.

Its very comparable to US foreign policy. US FP constantly uses the justification of counter-terrorism to justify intervention and meddling in other countries. Guess what, the Kurds have a history of terrorism in Turkey and have become increasingly emboldened given their gains in the shadow of the collapse of the Iraqi and Syrians states, the former of which is directly the cause of a botched US intervention. And of course there's the fact that the US are directly supporting militant groups, which are classified as terrorists in Turkey, right on the Turkish border. And the Turks are crazy for doing something about it?

Btw Erdogan is the one who got Turkey closest to the EU in the end. In fact many of his political reforms were done to facilitate the entrance to the EU as EU guidelines required that the civilian government have control over the military and not the other way around. So the displacement of the old secular elite was in fact directly related to the EU accession process so thank the EU for the rise of Erdogan.

 

[Bloodworth]

Iran to Iraq for some Turkey...

 

[Rod1]

When the Turks first arrived in Anatolia it was like they wanted to compete with the ancient Babylonian and Assyrians to prove that they were the true kings of genocide.

You mean by genociding themselves through intermixing because modern Turks dont look like turkmen at all.

 

[Meap]

he's literally Suleiman.

This is a shame.
I was so gonna like this post, too.

 

[Orgasmo]

Turkey has not been an ally since Erdogan and his Islamist came to power. In fact, they should not be in NATO at all, since they do not share the same democratic values and geopolitical goals as the West. Erdogan and his cronies have been providing support to jihadists for years now, while attacking Kurdish groups as "terrorist". Along with Saudi Arabia, it is the biggest contributor to Sunni extremism in the Middle East.

 

[Islam Imamate]

This is a shame.
I was so gonna like this post, too.

Do you prefer I spell it "Suleyman" instead?

 

[Meap]

Do you prefer I spell it "Suleyman" instead?

I want everyone to stop themselves and make sure they know what they are doing before using the word 'literally'.

He isn't literally a long decomposed historical leader.

 

[tramendous]

True it was different in the 1990s, back when the military was launching a covert campaign of racial terror against Kurds which led to thousands being disappeared and tortured to death.

Yeah Erdogan is using the Islamic identity to bolster his populist base for authoritarian purposes but a paternal authoritarian stance is precisely part of Ataturk's legacy. He wasn't exactly happy about dissent either and did more or less what Erdogan is doing but in reverse, using "muh secularism!" to crush dissidents.

When Turkey was an ethnonationalist state which brutally oppressed its ethnic minorities the West had no issue, they were seen as a great ally. Now the leader mentions Islam a few too many times and suddenly he's literally Suleiman.

There is still rampant racial discrimination and genocide denial in Turkey.

He might very well end up being the next Suleiman if he lives up to his and his cronies promise to “liberate” the former ottoman territories.

you guys make it sound like Suleiman was Hitler or something.

 

[tramendous]

When the Turks first arrived in Anatolia it was like they wanted to compete with the ancient Babylonian and Assyrians to prove that they were the true kings of genocide.

wait. source?

 

[Islam Imamate]

I want everyone to stop themselves and make sure they know what they are doing before using the word 'literally'.

He isn't literally a long decomposed historical leader.

I know that, its a reference to the "literally Hitler" meme which started out without someone incorrectly used literally for emphasis and then was parodied thereafter. I used "literally Suleiman" because thought it was a context appropriate tweak.

you guys make it sound like Suleiman was Hitler or something.

He wasn't but because of his conquests in Europe he's one of the quintessential Oriental despots in the nightmares of the West and of course he's also widely considered the GOAT Ottoman Sultan so the potential parallels between him and Erdogan are fun to play with.

 

[tramendous]

He wasn't but because of his conquests in Europe he's one of the quintessential Oriental despots in the nightmares of the West and of course he's also widely considered the GOAT Ottoman Sultan so the potential parallels between him and Erdogan are fun to play with.

but the westerners wrote about how noble he was and titled him "magnificent".

 

[Islam Imamate]

but the westerners wrote about how noble he was and titled him "magnificent".

At the time yeah but in hindsight the Siege of Vienna by Suleiman is used as a metaphor for the invasion of the Muhammadan hordes. Besides he's the most well known Ottoman Sultan so if I'm going to draw parallels between Erdogan and an Ottoman ruler Suleiman is the go-to one

 

[Meap]

I know that, its a reference to the "literally Hitler" meme which started out without someone incorrectly used literally for emphasis and then was parodied thereafter. I used "literally Suleiman" because thought it was a context appropriate tweak.

He wasn't but because of his conquests in Europe he's one of the quintessential Oriental despots in the nightmares of the West and of course he's also widely considered the GOAT Ottoman Sultan so the potential parallels between him and Erdogan are fun to play with.

Totally missed that. I'm glad to know it was intentional.

 

[tramendous]

At the time yeah but in hindsight the Siege of Vienna by Suleiman is used as a metaphor for the invasion of the Muhammadan hordes. Besides he's the most well known Ottoman Sultan so if I'm going to draw parallels between Erdogan and an Ottoman ruler Suleiman is the go-to one

Use Selim. He even has the word "the grim" in his title lol