Helio Gracie's Black Belt

CinemaKingdom

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Something I was thinking of, and it's not just Helio Gracie but all founders of any martial art, they all gave themselves a black belt correct? With Helio for instance, he learned BJJ from watching his brother but had never actually trained himself until his brother was late for class and Helio taught it instead. Then the students liked his teaching so they asked for him. Basically Helio promoted himself to black belt over time. Obviously he knows what he was doing after training and fighting for years though.

I know there was a stink when Kevin Casey promoted himself to blackbelt but ultimately, whats the difference?
 
no beef with Kevin. I think he promoted himself to BB in King Casey Jiu jitsu. legit imo.
 
actually in GJJ, it was white belt, blue belt and then darker blue belt for instructor.

Then they switch to the Judo system later on because they thought it will be good to turn it into a sport instead of just a fighting system.
 
You have to make your own system and then you have to promote yourself to black belt. Promoting yourself to black belt within an established system is a no-no.

Greg Jackson made his own martial art called gaidojutsu.
 
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You can promote yourself to black in the martial art you invented, then you have to fight to make said martial art legit.
 
be careful ts as i am a 16th degree black belt in key warrior jitsu, so if your opinion differs from mine i will meticulously detail my training regimen, and how it will allow me to defeat you should a physical altercation arise. in the case of an alleged disagreement i will further discredit your knowledge of martial arts by claiming you are "probably a white belt" meanwhile providing an extensive list of various forms of unarmed combat i have trained in, yet providing ninja like stealth in regards to lineage or evidence of such claims. all the while my fellow like minded martial artists, which may or may not be second or third accounts i manage, will be in full agreement of my opinions. you have been warned

fuck im bored

:icon_chee
 
It amazes me that the stipid myth of Helio teaching himself by watching still persists today under people who actually train. You can't lean to grapple by watching. He learned from training under Carlos and by training with his brothers. I'd say he was promoted by Carlos, or maybe he just trained long enough with his brothers and got good enough that he promoted himself when he felt like it. It's not like there was any kind of governing body at that time to actually give a fuck.
 
It amazes me that the stipid myth of Helio teaching himself by watching still persists today under people who actually train. You can't lean to grapple by watching. He learned from training under Carlos and by training with his brothers. I'd say he was promoted by Carlos, or maybe he just trained long enough with his brothers and got good enough that he promoted himself when he felt like it. It's not like there was any kind of governing body at that time to actually give a fuck.

Helio himself is the one who said he did it that way. I have no reason not to believe him. I'm sure he trained with his brother after that if he hadn't before as he claimed. Do you know it's not true or are you just assuming that and bashing everyone who doesn't agree with your assumptions?
 
My guess is that Maeda Mitsuyo gave Carlos Gracie a black belt in "Jiu-Jitsu" then Carlos awarded Helio a black belt.
 
Helio himself is the one who said he did it that way. I have no reason not to believe him. I'm sure he trained with his brother after that if he hadn't before as he claimed. Do you know it's not true or are you just assuming that and bashing everyone who doesn't agree with your assumptions?

You can't learn grappling just by watching. You need to drill and spar, not just watch. It's that simple. Helio either made the story up or . . . he made the story up. It sounds cool, but it's just a martial arts myth.
 
Helio himself is the one who said he did it that way. I have no reason not to believe him. I'm sure he trained with his brother after that if he hadn't before as he claimed. Do you know it's not true or are you just assuming that and bashing everyone who doesn't agree with your assumptions?

from a Carlson Gracie interview:

"Then I found out that Rorion said that he was a national champion for 20 years and had never lost and that he had invented the Gracie diet. He even said that my dad was just a fucking assistant of his and that it was Helio Gracie who brought Jiu-Jitsu to Brazil. Lies over lies! When I found out, I was so mad!"

http://www.bjjee.com/interview/carl...om-helios-his-relationship-with-rorion-ibjjf/
 
Helio himself is the one who said he did it that way. I have no reason not to believe him. I'm sure he trained with his brother after that if he hadn't before as he claimed. Do you know it's not true or are you just assuming that and bashing everyone who doesn't agree with your assumptions?

Hmmm... I base my opinion off of the fact that I trained and competed in judo for about 13 years or so. I've also trained jiu-jitsu for about four years now on and off.... Well... That and common sense...

You can't learn to grapple without grappling. It's about proper instruction and mat time. That's it.

Do you swallow every scrap of bullshit people say? I suppose you believe aliens are abducting people and ass raping them as well? Or maybe that mr Kung fu guy meditated on a mountain for forty years and discovered the secrets of beating guys up?
 
You can't learn grappling just by watching. You need to drill and spar, not just watch. It's that simple. Helio either made the story up or . . . he made the story up. It sounds cool, but it's just a martial arts myth.

I think it is pretty clear that Helio physically trained BJJ. I seriously doubt before he fought any of his opponent's he never drilled or spar.

I think the story is usually he was too weak to participate in class using the techniques Carlos taught him. He probably physically trained with his brothers who were probably easy or careful with him.

Obviously by watching his brother teach he learned how to teach the technique. Then one day he took over the class because his brother was late. I think Gracie Academy back then taught one on one. So the student that day probably enjoyed Helio's teaching.

Though I dont know much about Helio Gracie. I am willing to bet he sparred with training partners before he fought santana and kimura. I find it absurd to believe he just watch BJJ and walked into a grappling match with Kimura and a vale tudo match with Santana.
 
I think it is pretty clear that Helio physically trained BJJ. I seriously doubt before he fought any of his opponent's he never drilled or spar.

I think the story is usually he was too weak to participate in class using the techniques Carlos taught him. He probably physically trained with his brothers who were probably easy or careful with him.

Obviously by watching his brother teach he learned how to teach the technique. Then one day he took over the class because his brother was late. I think Gracie Academy back then taught one on one. So the student that day probably enjoyed Helio's teaching.

Though I dont know much about Helio Gracie. I am willing to bet he sparred with training partners before he fought santana and kimura. I find it absurd to believe he just watch BJJ and walked into a grappling match with Kimura and a vale tudo match with Santana.

Helio obviously trained hard. Does this look like some frail wimp who couldn't roll?

7osRg.jpg
 
Also, the other brothers fought and taught for Carlos: Oswaldo, Gast
 
Helio Gracie was a delicate flower of a man, prone to fainting spells and intense menorrhoea. He only managed to not be overwhelmed by the brute strength of all the men that wanted to dominate him by his ingenious discovery of leverage.

He also never had sex without the intention of procreation. The Gracies are batshit crazy and always making bullshit up about their history. "Because a Gracie said it," particularly from Helio's line, gives me cause to be sceptical of the claim more than trust it.
 
You can't learn grappling just by watching. You need to drill and spar, not just watch. It's that simple. Helio either made the story up or . . . he made the story up. It sounds cool, but it's just a martial arts myth.

You can learn enough by watching to impress a complete beginner. That's all he really claimed to have done, he taught a beginner on his first day. Only after that did his brother start giving him proper lessons
 
You can learn enough by watching to impress a complete beginner. That's all he really claimed to have done, he taught a beginner on his first day. Only after that did his brother start giving him proper lessons

That's not what is stated by Rorian gracie and his seed...

They claim that Helio memorized the techniques from watching and then taught a class while Carlos was late one day. And after that day he began to teach the classes from then on...

Horseshit... Unless he is neo from the matrix and can simply have jiu-jitsu uploaded into his brain... Well then he had to learn by being taught physically through putting time in On the mat just like the rest of us.
 
Seriously guys, are there no better topic than discussing this nonsense?
 
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