Henderson vs. Machida

I don't disagree with what you said but you're not exactly disagreeing with me either.

You're right that everything Dan threw started with the left leg followed by the right hand or was simply some variant of leading with the right hand. But there was plenty of variety in how he did it.

If that's what you're disagreeing with then ok.

You didn't consider the skipping left kick to be a different set up than the pure lead leg kick? Different range? Different entry? Etc. Or the lunging right hand feint to have different timing than when Dan committed to the right hand as the only movement?

Admittedly, I watched the fight afterward and had the benefit of rewinding frequently to observe how each exchange was initiated.

I agree that he tried a lot of different ways to set up the right hand, and he had some pretty impressive ways of doing it.
But it was still all lead leg or right hand oriented--- no back leg set ups, no left hand setups.
So I think the term "unpredictable" is a little kind. He used the same hand and the same leg and the end result was always the H-Bomb. And he did this for 15 minutes.

I also thought he was kind of short changing (or at least shortening) the rights he was throwing, mostly out of fear of leaving himself too open after the punch. That wasn't helping.
 
Eesh, I relaly gotta watch the fight... the only thing I could see dropping Machida in that whole fight was the kicks he was hitting dan with in round 3--- he did a mini-crane kick to Hendo's head and a hard roundhouse kick too. I don't remember these super strong punches.

Tomorrow afternoon I'll have that breakdown posted up, and I'm including some Jack Slack-style storyboards, so you can see all the best hits.
 
Tomorrow afternoon I'll have that breakdown posted up, and I'm including some Jack Slack-style storyboards, so you can see all the best hits.

Great, I'm already restocking my "didn't read lol" gif section.
 
I agree that he tried a lot of different ways to set up the right hand, and he had some pretty impressive ways of doing it.
But it was still all lead leg or right hand oriented--- no back leg set ups, no left hand setups.
So I think the term "unpredictable" is a little kind. He used the same hand and the same leg and the end result was always the H-Bomb. And he did this for 15 minutes.

I also thought he was kind of short changing (or at least shortening) the rights he was throwing, mostly out of fear of leaving himself too open after the punch. That wasn't helping.

well, I can't make you like the word "unpredictable" and if that's what you disagree with, I'm fine with that.

I agree that he was shortening the right hands, pretty much every time his left leg didn't connect fully he pulled up on the right. and since he didn't connect fully all that much...

Also, if you re-watch the fight - it was completely different fight stylistically in the 3rd round after the takedown.
 
The impression I got from watching Hendo fight is that his striking training literally is 100% lead leg round kick to a pad held about 6 inches off the ground to his right hand. I dont even think he trains the other hand/leg at all.
 
Great, I'm already restocking my "didn't read lol" gif section.

Perfect.

Edit: Unrelated question: do you think that Karate, as a passive-aggressive martial art, produces passive-aggressive people?
 
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Pretty sure Hendo landed a left hook midway through the 2nd round. But his offense was very right hand heavy for the most part. Honestly I couldn't believe how much he was loading up on some of those right hands, it seemed like he'd tilt back onto his rear leg and have his left foot about a foot off the ground before planting down and punching.
 
Perfect.

Edit: Unrelated question: do you think that Karate, as a passive-aggressive martial art, produces passive-aggressive people?

Let me ask those Karateka who took years off of me and i will tell you what they think of it.
 
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Perfect.

Edit: Unrelated question: do you think that Karate, as a passive-aggressive martial art, produces passive-aggressive people?

I don't think karate is a passive aggressive martial art so...no.

Karate is a very aggressive martial art but it's controlled aggression. Unlike passive aggression, karate has no problem with confrontation.
 
Perfect.

Edit: Unrelated question: do you think that Karate, as a passive-aggressive martial art, produces passive-aggressive people?

I think pissy people are attracted to all the bowing and shit. And yeah, if you go to a club bowing and scraping for 4 years to get a black belt, you are going to want people bowing to you.

I don't think it produces passive aggressive people. I think it produces active aggressive people.
 
I also think lyoto intentionally was less active on purpose, basically lookin to create opp to establish his offense; for the most part lyoto game is limited, which is why he has gottgen hit more. That and trying to be more assertive. By being excessively def it effectively changes your rhythm and pattern of attack; an essentially lulls your opp to sleep because of your reluctance to engage. And it effectively slows the pace of the fight, as you can't really put combos on someone who isn't initiating offense; an refuses to aggressively counter, he gives you nothing to counter and little to attack. Which makes it a matter of timing and focus; many times dan feel asleep at the wheel watchin following or trying to set lyoto up. I think he figured machida would be more aggressive or more commited when he attacked.
Si
Lyoto wasn't and it threw hendo game off, lyoto picked at him; an occasionally put some power on it, but dan was expectin lyoto to be more decisive in his attacks. His extra cautious approach eff broke any rhythm dan could establish and limit his opp to attack or counter because he was given no opp...no real ones.
 
Karate doesnt "produce" any aggression. Like any other martial art, most of the times it just amplifies who the person is already. Assholes will be assholes, just now really dangerous assholes.
 
I think the conservative level of Machida's activity simply came down to the fact that he hugely respected Hendos power and his single minded determination to land his right hand while walking through fire combined with a granite chin. I would not expect anyone to stick around or fully commit. Whatever Dan's limitations through out his fights his often finds a way to land that right hand. Offence wise he might not offer much else but he does that right hand very well. I think Machida was very cognisant of the dangers and minimised his exposure which meant pot shots and quick withdrawals.

I don't think it was anything to do with Dan's 'unpredictability' which to me wasn't apparent at all.
 
Karate doesnt "produce" any aggression. Like any other martial art, most of the times it just amplifies who the person is already. Assholes will be assholes, just now really dangerous assholes.

Someone like that should stay away from energy drinks.
An intoxication and they would go on a rampage. (pun intended)
 
I think the conservative level of Machida's activity simply came down to the fact that he hugely respected Hendos power and his single minded determination to land his right hand while walking through fire combined with a granite chin. I would not expect anyone to stick around or fully commit. Whatever Dan's limitations through out his fights his often finds a way to land that right hand. Offence wise he might not offer much else but he does that right hand very well. I think Machida was very cognisant of the dangers and minimised his exposure which meant pot shots and quick withdrawals.

I don't think it was anything to do with Dan's 'unpredictability' which to me wasn't apparent at all.

i think hendo did a few diff entries into his right hand, he wasn't just winging it wildly like he does in many fights, he was specifically trying to create an opening or bait lyoto or get him to try to counter or return fire off another attack so he could blast machida.

machida was aware of that and dropped his output and didn't commit to his attacks as much so that he wasn't going to be in the spot / range for hendo to find a way to land that big shot.

i think lyoto will cont to do this, to cut down on the opp his opp have to land on him; either through their own pressure/volume or as a result of openings he gives them when he counters/intercepts/defends w/his typical/predictable moves. He is gonna force guys to overextend w/aggression by not responding to setup or clear openings provided by his opp; just stay def, and focus exclusively on landing (not necessarily landing w/power) unless given a clear opp to do so by his opp.

its hard to land or setup big shots or combos on someone who won't bite, an has uneven rhythm or pattern in when, how hard, how decisive his attacks will be. You may land shots, but you cant land the way you want or need, because machida isn't giving you chances to open up or follow up.

machida doesn't take punishment particularly well, an w/the limitied repetoire of moves he uses; he has a chance of getting hit as more tape is out there. I think now he is using potshots, and limited engagement to allow him to find openings; instead of leaping to intercept at every opportunity, it also limits his chances of taking damage or being pressured because of this extra def nature.

i am a potshot guy myself, an it works even against guys better than you; but def works against guys who are limited tech/strategically.
 
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Let me ask those Karateka who took years off of me and i will tell you what they think of it.

Haha :icon_chee Nice.

I don't think karate is a passive aggressive martial art so...no.

Karate is a very aggressive martial art but it's controlled aggression. Unlike passive aggression, karate has no problem with confrontation.

I was just kidding, anyway.

Karate doesnt "produce" any aggression. Like any other martial art, most of the times it just amplifies who the person is already. Assholes will be assholes, just now really dangerous assholes.

"Karate intensifies your personality."

"Yes, but... what if you're an asshole?"
 
i think hendo did a few diff entries into his right hand, he wasn't just winging it wildly like he does in many fights, he was specifically trying to create an opening or bait lyoto or get him to try to counter or return fire off another attack so he could blast machida.

machida was aware of that and dropped his output and didn't commit to his attacks as much so that he wasn't going to be in the spot / range for hendo to find a way to land that big shot.

i think lyoto will cont to do this, to cut down on the opp his opp have to land on him; either through their own pressure/volume or as a result of openings he gives them when he counters/intercepts/defends w/his typical/predictable moves. He is gonna force guys to overextend w/aggression by not responding to setup or clear openings provided by his opp; just stay def, and focus exclusively on landing (not necessarily landing w/power) unless given a clear opp to do so by his opp.

its hard to land or setup big shots or combos on someone who won't bite, an has uneven rhythm or pattern in when, how hard, how decisive his attacks will be. You may land shots, but you cant land the way you want or need, because machida isn't giving you chances to open up or follow up.

machida doesn't take punishment particularly well, an w/the limitied repetoire of moves he uses; he has a chance of getting hit as more tape is out there. I think now he is using potshots, and limited engagement to allow him to find openings; instead of leaping to intercept at every opportunity, it also limits his chances of taking damage or being pressured because of this extra def nature.

i am a potshot guy myself, an it works even against guys better than you; but def works against guys who are limited tech/strategically.

nice work ,

watch what tactic shogun used on machida and you will see the way to force machida to attack

shogun attacked machidas strong left side , and cut off machidas outlet , forcing him to counter and cut off the ring ,

henderson went the wrong way , plain and simple , henderson played it safe and went away from machidas left , so machidda could sit and wait or escape to his outlet ,

jon bones jones tried to force machidas left (strong side ) but was losing the inside brawl , only because his arms were too long and machida was beating him on the inside , wheras henderson would have preffered to brawl on the inside but couldnt get machida to bite , shogun forced him to fight just by giving machida what he wanted , to blast him with his left leg or knee but shogun already had counters planned for those attacks .
 
nice work ,

watch what tactic shogun used on machida and you will see the way to force machida to attack

shogun attacked machidas strong left side , and cut off machidas outlet , forcing him to counter and cut off the ring ,

henderson went the wrong way , plain and simple , henderson played it safe and went away from machidas left , so machidda could sit and wait or escape to his outlet ,

jon bones jones tried to force machidas left (strong side ) but was losing the inside brawl , only because his arms were too long and machida was beating him on the inside , wheras henderson would have preffered to brawl on the inside but couldnt get machida to bite , shogun forced him to fight just by giving machida what he wanted , to blast him with his left leg or knee but shogun already had counters planned for those attacks .

Excellent analysis, man.
 
Alright, it's a long one, but there's a lot more to this fight than most seem to realize. So ready your "didn't read lol" gifs and scroll to the end. Here we go.

(The picture formatting looks like hell on Sherdog, sorry.)

Breakdown: Henderson vs. Machida


Well, the day came, and it went. The historic UFC 157 was a success and, while it didn
 
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Machida has a very strong underhook, and he walks slowly backwards, feeling for Henderson
 
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