Herniated Disk -- Do they ever Heal?

I just found out I have a herniated L4-L5. It took me so long to finally get over my neck injury and now I wake up on Tuesday with the most pain I've ever felt in my life. Very depressing and really stressed about this now.

I was taking a break from training too so I have no idea what actually triggered it.

So an MRI showed this? Do you have any shooting pains/numbness/weakness?

A lot of times, herniated disks develop and worsen over time with repeated stress (physical activity, poor posture, etc.) rather than just one event.
 
Great to see you're in good spirits and I wish you a speedy recovery. Sorry to hear you won't be able to train anymore but clearly you're making the right decision. Your health, especially risking paralysis, just isn't worth it. Hope you're doing well.

Well, we will see ;) I'm going to ask a few sports orthos + physios about returning to training. I had previously seen a BJJ black belt who was also a physician and he continued to train after multiple neck injuries, so I know it is possible, just need to discuss my specific situation.

Fingers crossed!
 
Good luck, what does your MRI report say? I would get a second opinion if I were you, are you doing this surgery to get back to bjj? Have you tried epidurals? How old are you? What is your pain on scale of 1-10?

I have had multiple MRIs over the years and have had about 5 different surgical opinions at this point.

I'm doing this surgery to improve quality of life (I have bicep and forearm atrophy). I have had 2 epidurals. Pain is on the low end, but I get tingling and spasms in my left arm/shoulder and as mentioned previously, atrophy/weakness.

Trust me, I have not taken this decision lightly. I've been basically sidelined for almost a year and a half while I try to resolve the situation (along with another issue I had been dealing with).

I've seen a combo of neuro and orthopedic surgeons, who have recommended me the entire gamut of treatment options. One guy said he could do nothing for me and to just live with the atrophy/weakness for the rest of my life. Another guy wanted to do artificial disc replacement, yet another wanted to do an anterior cervical disc fusion, and the two opinions that I trust the most recommended laminotomy + foraminotomy (one was a neurosurgeon on the West coast, the current is an ortho on the East coast specializing in cervical spine).

I'm 32 and latter two opinions are the only ones to highlight that I have congenital spinal stenosis. My spinal canal is just narrower than normal so all disc issues manifest themselves to a much worse degree.
 
So an MRI showed this? Do you have any shooting pains/numbness/weakness?

A lot of times, herniated disks develop and worsen over time with repeated stress (physical activity, poor posture, etc.) rather than just one event.

Yeah the MRI showed the herniation and impingement on l4 and l5 nerve roots. I have foot drop and numbness, though thankfully the pain is gone.

I'm hoping its not too bad but I think I'll be out for at least a month. I'm going to have to focus on strengthening my core and increasing mobility I think to prevent reinjury.
 
I had a herniation or bone spur pinching a nerve between C4/C5/C6. Didn't bother to get an MRI so Idk exactly what was causing it. Took about 5 months to rehab, no surgery, just less rolling (still trained once or twice a week), Yoga, Physical Therapy, and massage therapy. It scared the crap out of me and I'm much more careful of my neck.

I had the pain, tingling, and numbness from my neck all the way down my right arm. I never want to feel that again. Anyone gets close to cranking my neck in training, I tap, not worth the risk to try to defend and get it hurt again.
 
I had SEVERE spinal stenosis L6L7. Had a laminectomy/fusion in Nov 2010. Back on the mats April 2011. 100% recovery. I have a herniated c6/c7. Thankfully epidurals keep it in check. I turn 50 this Feb and train 7x a week and compete almost every month. I take one voltaren antinflam every morning and that's it. surgery gave me my life back. If u need surgery then get it. Techniques are light years ahead of where they were ten years ago. I am almost pain free. Find the best damn neuro surgeon you can and move your life forward.
 
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I've got an herniated L4-L5 with total atrophy in one muscle and some loss of movement. Only marginal improvement over the past 6 weeks and will likely be going under the knife for a far lateral microdiscectomy in 2 weeks, unless the steroid starts doing something. The nerve conduction test was pretty bad so the doc wants surgery since the nerve is still being damaged.

Ironically I hurt my back while I was taking a break from training in order to heal up some nagging stuff (including my back, which I thought was a pulled muscle). Then I woke up one morning in excruciating pain, ended up in the emergency room and had to do an emergency MRI to rule out cauda equina. I haven't done anything physical for more than 2 months and it sucks!

I'm hoping the surgery helps me get back to activity sooner rather than later.
 
I've got an herniated L4-L5 with total atrophy in one muscle and some loss of movement. Only marginal improvement over the past 6 weeks and will likely be going under the knife for a far lateral microdiscectomy in 2 weeks, unless the steroid starts doing something. The nerve conduction test was pretty bad so the doc wants surgery since the nerve is still being damaged.

Ironically I hurt my back while I was taking a break from training in order to heal up some nagging stuff (including my back, which I thought was a pulled muscle). Then I woke up one morning in excruciating pain, ended up in the emergency room and had to do an emergency MRI to rule out cauda equina. I haven't done anything physical for more than 2 months and it sucks!

I'm hoping the surgery helps me get back to activity sooner rather than later.

Damn bro sucks to hear. Hope your surgery helps. Miss you on the mats.
 
I've got an herniated L4-L5 with total atrophy in one muscle and some loss of movement. Only marginal improvement over the past 6 weeks and will likely be going under the knife for a far lateral microdiscectomy in 2 weeks, unless the steroid starts doing something. The nerve conduction test was pretty bad so the doc wants surgery since the nerve is still being damaged.

Ironically I hurt my back while I was taking a break from training in order to heal up some nagging stuff (including my back, which I thought was a pulled muscle). Then I woke up one morning in excruciating pain, ended up in the emergency room and had to do an emergency MRI to rule out cauda equina. I haven't done anything physical for more than 2 months and it sucks!

I'm hoping the surgery helps me get back to activity sooner rather than later.


Dont stress anything man, let it take a year if needed.


Take this time off to learn other skills in life.

Ive been out for 2 years because i was in a hurry, now im almost 100% but i could have been back a year ago if i wasnt so stup7d.
 
Dont stress anything man, let it take a year if needed.


Take this time off to learn other skills in life.

Ive been out for 2 years because i was in a hurry, now im almost 100% but i could have been back a year ago if i wasnt so stup7d.

I was out 3.5 years instead of 6-8 months because I wouldn't take a real break and let myself heal. Terrible mistake.

Sad part is I keep making it. I tried adding deadlifts to my circuit training for OG worlds, and now my back is killing me. The biggest mistake you can make with herniated discs is thinking that because your back feels pretty good that it's 100% and you can act as if it were never injured. For me, and for most of us I think, this will never ever be true again.
 
I was out 3.5 years instead of 6-8 months because I wouldn't take a real break and let myself heal. Terrible mistake.

Sad part is I keep making it. I tried adding deadlifts to my circuit training for OG worlds, and now my back is killing me. The biggest mistake you can make with herniated discs is thinking that because your back feels pretty good that it's 100% and you can act as if it were never injured. For me, and for most of us I think, this will never ever be true again.


Yeah i agree with this, my training is alot different now than it was a before my last messup.

I adopted alot more of a ross training kind of stuff with more isometric and isolated core stuff instead of heavy compounds.

Im basicly pain free but i know that my back is still fucked up and will be for a long while.

I focus alot more on cardio, agility and mobility now which is the reason my back cracked in the first place.

Maybe i can get into heavy lifting in a year or so but idk if i even want to...


Anyway the most important factors to fix regarding back pain is hip mobility, glute and hip activatio and core strength and conditioning.

But take it fucking slow and take days of as soon as you feel something is weird.

And yeah avoid sitting as much as you can, sitting is the devil.
 
Hi everyone, wanted to follow up with some more info.

On August 21, I had a cervical laminoplasty from C2-C7, along with a foraminotomy at C5-C6 and C6-C7 on the left side (that is the side where I have had bicep/forearm muscle atrophy and weakness/spasms/tingling for the past 4-5 years).

I am very lucky to have had it done at the Hospital for Special Surgery out here in NYC, which is the #1 ranked hospital for orthopedic surgery in the US (as ranked by US News & World Report). My experience has been nothing short of amazing.

It has been a day over two weeks from the day of surgery. I had all of my pre-surgical workups done about a week before surgery. This included physician check up, heart EKG/echocardiogram, fluid checks, neurologist check, etc. Most comprehensive care I have ever experienced.

I had disc bulging at C5-C6 and C6-C7, with minor bulging at C4-C5 and C3-C4. Because of the more severe cervical spinal stenosis (narrowing of spinal canal), the disc bulges (which are at about 4-5mm, not huge by any means for those of you that have had MRI evals done) they were impinging on left side nerves and into my spinal cord. MRIs showed almost no fluid between the discs and my spinal cord. This is bad, meaning high risk of paralysis if there was a sudden trauma to my neck (e.g. bad car accident, giant uchi mata onto my neck, being stacked hard, etc.)

You can look up lamniplasty, but basically the surgeon made an incision on the back of my neck from about the base of my skull (the bottom of my hairline) down about 5". He cut open the lamina, which is the part of the vertebrae you can feel if you run your hand up and down the spine. One side of the lamina was scored, the other cut completely through, and he uses it as a hinge/opens it up on one side like a door. Use titanium plates to hold them in place from C4-C7. He completely removed the lamina on C3 to preserve motion (looking upward) and did a slight mod on C2.

This is sometimes referred to as spinal decompression. He said that when he cracked open the lamina, the pressure was immediately relieved and he could see the spinal column in that area get full of spinal fluid.

He then did the foraminotomy on the left side, which is clearing of the bone spurs surrounding my nerves going down my left arm. The spurs were causing tingling/numbness, muscle atrophy in bicep + forearm, and general weakness.

I woke up in the hospital in the afternoon, totally drugged up. First thing I noticed right away was that I HAD NO MORE SYMPTOMS IN MY LEFT ARM. Fucking amazing. All the familiar positions that I knew would trigger tingling in my arm -- no tingling at all. In the two weeks since I have not had ANY symptoms in my left arm. My muscles also seem to be firing better, but from what I understand this can take up to 6 months (and lots of therapy) to get the nerves to fire correctly again.

Before, when I would try to hold a left bicep flex, you could see the muscle "stuttering"/quivering. Now it is significantly less.

Recovery was painful for the first few days. Spent a couple of days in the hospital doped up on percocet/Flexeril/dilaudid (god I loved that pain pump). Had bad muscle spasms in my neck/upper back for a few days. Went home on day 3 and just took pain killers/muscle relaxers for another 3-4 days. Slept about 16 hours a day. Started walking a bit to get the blood moving. I only had to wear a soft collar for a couple of days, since the procedure was motion preserving.

My neck and upper back/shoulders are still a bit sore, but the scar is basically closed with some scabbing on it now. Don't have to leave it covered up anymore. I can walk pretty much full speed now. Neck is a bit stiff but I am slowly stretching it out. Still hard to carry anything/bend over -- was told not to use backpacks or lift anything heavy for about 6 weeks total.

Time will tell if I return to BJJ (which I would still really like to do), however doc said I could go back to anything except grappling/wrestling. I specifically asked about olympic/compound lifts, CrossFit, etc. and he said it is all good to go after the 3 month check up (I had previously said 6 month recovery but it is only a 3 month recovery -- nice!)

Anyway, it has been a great experience so far, not having these mechanical/neurological deficiencies that I can feel every day. If your symptoms are NOT clearing up after a year or so, or you are getting muscle weakness/atrophy, I highly recommend going to see a surgeon. This has been near miraculous for me. I have debated over this decision for a very, very long time (been getting surgical consults for almost a year) because I have heard so many horror stories about spine surgery. But damn this has been amazing.

I will try to get my hands on the X-rays and follow up MRIs and will scan in the before MRIs so you can see how the bulges were affecting me before/after.

Best of luck to everyone
 
I can also add thar A.R.T. combined with acupuncture has helped me alot.

A big part of my issue is that my glutes and hips tighten up and that stresses the shit out of my lower vertebras and si joint.

Stretching helps but its not even comparable to the magic my art guy does.
 
Hi everyone, wanted to follow up with some more info.

On August 21, I had a cervical laminoplasty from C2-C7, along with a foraminotomy at C5-C6 and C6-C7 on the left side (that is the side where I have had bicep/forearm muscle atrophy and weakness/spasms/tingling for the past 4-5 years).

I am very lucky to have had it done at the Hospital for Special Surgery out here in NYC, which is the #1 ranked hospital for orthopedic surgery in the US (as ranked by US News & World Report). My experience has been nothing short of amazing.

It has been a day over two weeks from the day of surgery. I had all of my pre-surgical workups done about a week before surgery. This included physician check up, heart EKG/echocardiogram, fluid checks, neurologist check, etc. Most comprehensive care I have ever experienced.

I had disc bulging at C5-C6 and C6-C7, with minor bulging at C4-C5 and C3-C4. Because of the more severe cervical spinal stenosis (narrowing of spinal canal), the disc bulges (which are at about 4-5mm, not huge by any means for those of you that have had MRI evals done) they were impinging on left side nerves and into my spinal cord. MRIs showed almost no fluid between the discs and my spinal cord. This is bad, meaning high risk of paralysis if there was a sudden trauma to my neck (e.g. bad car accident, giant uchi mata onto my neck, being stacked hard, etc.)

You can look up lamniplasty, but basically the surgeon made an incision on the back of my neck from about the base of my skull (the bottom of my hairline) down about 5". He cut open the lamina, which is the part of the vertebrae you can feel if you run your hand up and down the spine. One side of the lamina was scored, the other cut completely through, and he uses it as a hinge/opens it up on one side like a door. Use titanium plates to hold them in place from C4-C7. He completely removed the lamina on C3 to preserve motion (looking upward) and did a slight mod on C2.

This is sometimes referred to as spinal decompression. He said that when he cracked open the lamina, the pressure was immediately relieved and he could see the spinal column in that area get full of spinal fluid.

He then did the foraminotomy on the left side, which is clearing of the bone spurs surrounding my nerves going down my left arm. The spurs were causing tingling/numbness, muscle atrophy in bicep + forearm, and general weakness.

I woke up in the hospital in the afternoon, totally drugged up. First thing I noticed right away was that I HAD NO MORE SYMPTOMS IN MY LEFT ARM. Fucking amazing. All the familiar positions that I knew would trigger tingling in my arm -- no tingling at all. In the two weeks since I have not had ANY symptoms in my left arm. My muscles also seem to be firing better, but from what I understand this can take up to 6 months (and lots of therapy) to get the nerves to fire correctly again.

Before, when I would try to hold a left bicep flex, you could see the muscle "stuttering"/quivering. Now it is significantly less.

Recovery was painful for the first few days. Spent a couple of days in the hospital doped up on percocet/Flexeril/dilaudid (god I loved that pain pump). Had bad muscle spasms in my neck/upper back for a few days. Went home on day 3 and just took pain killers/muscle relaxers for another 3-4 days. Slept about 16 hours a day. Started walking a bit to get the blood moving. I only had to wear a soft collar for a couple of days, since the procedure was motion preserving.

My neck and upper back/shoulders are still a bit sore, but the scar is basically closed with some scabbing on it now. Don't have to leave it covered up anymore. I can walk pretty much full speed now. Neck is a bit stiff but I am slowly stretching it out. Still hard to carry anything/bend over -- was told not to use backpacks or lift anything heavy for about 6 weeks total.

Time will tell if I return to BJJ (which I would still really like to do), however doc said I could go back to anything except grappling/wrestling. I specifically asked about olympic/compound lifts, CrossFit, etc. and he said it is all good to go after the 3 month check up (I had previously said 6 month recovery but it is only a 3 month recovery -- nice!)

Anyway, it has been a great experience so far, not having these mechanical/neurological deficiencies that I can feel every day. If your symptoms are NOT clearing up after a year or so, or you are getting muscle weakness/atrophy, I highly recommend going to see a surgeon. This has been near miraculous for me. I have debated over this decision for a very, very long time (been getting surgical consults for almost a year) because I have heard so many horror stories about spine surgery. But damn this has been amazing.

I will try to get my hands on the X-rays and follow up MRIs and will scan in the before MRIs so you can see how the bulges were affecting me before/after.

Best of luck to everyone


Glad to hear your surgery was successful. I've had some of the same symptoms but luckily PT, Yoga and rest took care of them. I know where I'll go though if god forbid, I ever need surgery on my spine though.
 
They can semi-heal themselves, but as a general rule once they're herniated, they stay herniated. It's no fun, I know.

As a longtime advocate of heavy, compound lifting, I've had to change my training significantly.

I'll still do high intensity, compound lifts but nothing that involves serious compression/overload of the spine. Everything is bodyweight and heavy band resistance (up to 300 lbs).

For example: squats, are now single leg squats.
Good mornings are now Glute Ham raises.

Pull ups, dips and other lifts that involve decompression of the spine (particularly if combined with additional band resistance hanging from the hips) have been immensely helpful/therapeutic.

Do what your rehab specialists/doctors tell you, but when it comes time to get back into serious strength training, these approaches have worked wonders.
 
I'm probably going to delay my surgery to see if I can get better in the next couple of months on my own. This book has been recommended so I hope it helps: http://www.amazon.com/Foundation-Redefine-Your-Conquer-Confidence/dp/1609611004/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1378906503&sr=8-1&keywords=foundation+core

I have heard mixed things about the Foundation stuff.

You should also consider picking up "Becoming A Supple Leopard". Kelly Starrett is a physical therapist and CrossFit coach who has written a very highly respected blog for quite a few years now, MobilityWOD. He had a good interview recently on the Joe Rogan podcast as well (I'm not a Joe Rogan die hard, but it was interesting hearing Kelly's philosophy after buying the book and following his blog for quite some time).

http://www.amazon.com/Becoming-Supple-Leopard-Preventing-Performance/dp/1936608588
 
I found a audio book with sarno on torrent, i agree that his claims of all back pain is psychosomatic is outlandish to say at least.

But i have also noticed that alot of my symptoms flare up from emotional stress and that worrying and thinking about all the time also makes it worse.

So i say do everything in your power including listening to his stuff cause its not all bad.
 
Hi everyone, as promised, here's a picture of the work done on my neck.

I had my 6 week follow up with the surgeon today. I'm looking good to go, need some light PT to strengthen my arm and neck/shoulders. I can resume light workouts (bodyweight, light weights, no Olympic movements) and slowly ramp up over the next 3-4 months. About 6 months out from the surgery date (which will put me at ~April 2014) I'll be able to resume activity 100% effort in everything.

This means I can start doing heavy lifting, Olympic movements, running, climbing, whatever. The ONLY thing he said I shouldn't go back to is BJJ/grappling due to the torque placed on my neck :( But there is a possibility of returning in 1-2 years if everything "scars over properly".

The scar is fading nicely. It's about 6" long down the back of my neck. I'm still 95% symptom free, I still get small twitchy spasms and have recently gotten a sensation of warmth in my hand -- surgeon is chalking this up to nerve regeneration. Apparently during the renervation process (which occurs at the rate of about 1 mm/day, so imagine coming from your spine all the way back down to your finger tips... takes a while) your nerves will fire off all sorts of weird signals, so what I'm experiencing is normal.

You can see the three titanium brackets holding open my lamina from C4-C6. He completely removed the lamina at C3 to preserve motion when I look up. 6 weeks out I'd say I have 90-95% range of motion from before, and am hopeful that I can get to 100% ROM with PT.

Anyway, wanted to let you guys know what was going on. I feel great, even though I am very very bummed out about not being able to train jiu jitsu for the foreseeable future. The one bright spot is I can train boxing/Muay Thai, so I may be visiting The Wat in the next few months. :D

OuSWnqj.jpg
 
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