How can the US people force the government to reject Saudi Arabia?

[Trotsky]

There are no ambiguities as to how I feel about Donald Trump, but one of the admittedly many areas of optimism that I held for Trump's rise and subsequent presidency (besides curbing lobbyism, normalizing healthcare discussions, and working for American laborers-- all completely lost causes) was the possibility that he would boorishly reject the nuance of the diplomatic history between the United States and Saudi Arabia and rally support against them for reasons that are, well, completely obvious.

But that did not happen, and Trump slobbed the knob of the Saudi family like every other president has done. That is despite the fact that the US intelligence community knows for a fact that (1) Saudi Arabia is by far--and it's not close--the biggest ideological exporter of terrorism, (2) Saudi Arabia is also by far the biggest financial backer of Islamic terrorist organizations, (3) Saudi Arabia is home to the fiercest anti-American sentiment in the Muslim world, despite being our ally, (4) Saudi Arabia is home to the world's strictest, most conservative, and least peaceable Islamic ideology, and (5) Saudi Arabia is the most oppressive, least democratic, and most human rights abuse-ridden country in the Middle East.

Now, last week, Trump gave a speech espousing aggression towards Iran (a much more secular, much less abusive, and far less terroristic state) on the basis of claims more much readily attributable to Saudi Arabia (anti-democracy, hostility, etc.), showing that there is still institutional and popular resentment of those qualities. Yet, the Donald has gone completely silent on the Saudi family since he got in a catty twitter spat with one of them during the GOP Primary.


We know, across Republican and Democratic voters, there is no love for Saudi Arabia and a universal preference for rejecting international ties with them, therefore showing that our relationship is distinctly at odds with democratic sentiment. So, as we inch toward military engagement with Iran, Saudi Arabia's enemy and a country much more amenable to American values, what path forward is there toward not only rejecting Saudi Arabian diplomacy, but affirmatively displacing their oppressive state?

 

[cincymma79]

they have a ton of oil, enough to affect world pricing. you'd be bitching up a storm if gas went up 1 dollar a gallon. there isn't much he or anyone can do

 

[hillelslovak87]

We fucked ourselves when FDR, after WW2, told all the Muslim despots that we wont give a dusty fuck about how bad they abuse human rights as long as they keep the oil pumping.

 

[Bargey]

There is no forcing. I don't think I've heard a prominent western leader while in power, speak up against Saudi Arabia.

They have lots of cash, land that the US uses for military and will continue to use that to buy favor and protection.

 

[JonnyRingo84]

they have a ton of oil, enough to affect world pricing. you'd be bitching up a storm if gas went up 1 dollar a gallon. there isn't much he or anyone can do

and there it is.

you want to F saudi arabia? buy a tesla. support dems pushing for climate change regulations.

 

[Trotsky]

they have a ton of oil, enough to affect world pricing. you'd be bitching up a storm if gas went up 1 dollar a gallon. there isn't much he or anyone can do

I would not be, if it were a result of sanctions on Saudi Arabia. I'd openly applaud Trump's efforts, like I was prepared to do during the GOP primary.

To say "there's not much anyone can do" is to both deny the credibility of our democratic republic and concede to barbarism.

There is no forcing. I don't think I've heard a prominent western leader while in power, speak up against Saudi Arabia.

They have lots of cash, land that the US uses for military and will continue to use that to buy favor and protection.

Bernie Sanders is the only one who I've seen cross the line and denounce the Saudis. But even that was timid and weak-gripped.

With alternative energy on the rise, I'm wondering how much the window will widen to speak openly about what a terrible regime the Sauds are.

 

[7437]

they have a ton of oil, enough to affect world pricing. you'd be bitching up a storm if gas went up 1 dollar a gallon. there isn't much he or anyone can do

Im up for it. Ride a motorcycle, i get 55. Fuck it.

 

[cincymma79]

I would not be, if it were a result of sanctions on Saudi Arabia. I'd openly applaud Trump's efforts, like I was prepared to do during the GOP primary.

To say "there's not much anyone can do" is to both deny the credibility of our democratic republic and concede to barbarism.



Bernie Sanders is the only one who I've seen cross the line and denounce the Saudis. But even that was timid and weak-gripped.

With alternative energy on the rise, I'm wondering how much the window will widen to speak openly about what a terrible regime the Sauds are.

Yes you would. You haven't gone off eh grid or bought an electric car. You aren't committed to anything other than finding a new way to bitch. Be honest. At least that's a starting point for a discussion


Oh and you can google trump denouncing Saudi Arabia

 

[Trotsky]

Yes you would. You haven't gone off eh grid or bought an electric car. You aren't committed to anything other than finding a new way to bitch. Be honest. At least that's a starting point for a discussion

I have the same 1991 car that I bought when I was 16. But I live in a city and use public transit.

So, now that I have acknowledged your deflecting ad hominem, do you agree that the most brutal, least democratic, and most terroristic country in the world should not receive diplomatic impunity from your United States.

Also, I'm sorry that I haven't "gone off eh grid." I didn't realize I had to be Henry David Thoreau just so that I can have public policy arguments without being vulnerable to moronic absolutism by people who are too stupid to have a rational conversation.

 

[bobgeese]

They just payed up $300b, unfortunately that will buy them time.

 

[WiolentOne]

they have a ton of oil, enough to affect world pricing. you'd be bitching up a storm if gas went up 1 dollar a gallon. there isn't much he or anyone can do

We would probably be on our way out of the M.E. by now if it weren't for leftists who in the 70s and 80s put a halt to nuclear energy expansion in America.

Now those same leftists and environmentalists are admitting they were wrong and that nuclear energy is actually one of the cleaner forms of mass producible energy.

 

[cincymma79]

We would probably be on our way out of the M.E. by now if it weren't for leftists who in the 70s and 80s put a halt to nuclear energy expansion in America.

Now those same leftists and environmentalists are admitting they were wrong and that nuclear energy is actually one of the cleaner forms of mass producible energy.

Nothing to add here. Just quoting to make it show twice on the same page

 

[cincymma79]

I have the same 1991 car that I bought when I was 16. But I live in a city and use public transit.

So, now that I have acknowledged your deflecting ad hominem, do you agree that the most brutal, least democratic, and most terroristic country in the world should not receive diplomatic impunity from your United States.

Also, I'm sorry that I haven't "gone off eh grid." I didn't realize I had to be Henry David Thoreau just so that I can have public policy arguments without being vulnerable to moronic absolutism by people who are too stupid to have a rational conversation.

You arent willing to sacrifice to your cause. You are just complaining about trump. How about this though: women can drive now. It's a big step. Maybe we are slowly getting through. In just a generation they might be as advanced as Iran or even Egypt

 

[xcvbn]

There are no ambiguities as to how I feel about Donald Trump, but one of the admittedly many areas of optimism that I held for Trump's rise and subsequent presidency (besides curbing lobbyism, normalizing healthcare discussions, and working for American laborers-- all completely lost causes) was the possibility that he would boorishly reject the nuance of the diplomatic history between the United States and Saudi Arabia and rally support against them for reasons that are, well, completely obvious.

But that did not happen, and Trump slobbed the knob of the Saudi family like every other president has done. That is despite the fact that the US intelligence community knows for a fact that (1) Saudi Arabia is by far--and it's not close--the biggest ideological exporter of terrorism, (2) Saudi Arabia is also by far the biggest financial backer of Islamic terrorist organizations, (3) Saudi Arabia is home to the fiercest anti-American sentiment in the Muslim world, despite being our ally, (4) Saudi Arabia is home to the world's strictest, most conservative, and least peaceable Islamic ideology, and (5) Saudi Arabia is the most oppressive, least democratic, and most human rights abuse-ridden country in the Middle East.

Now, last week, Trump gave a speech espousing aggression towards Iran (a much more secular, much less abusive, and far less terroristic state) on the basis of claims more much readily attributable to Saudi Arabia (anti-democracy, hostility, etc.), showing that there is still institutional and popular resentment of those qualities. Yet, the Donald has gone completely silent on the Saudi family since he got in a catty twitter spat with one of them during the GOP Primary.


We know, across Republican and Democratic voters, there is no love for Saudi Arabia and a universal preference for rejecting international ties with them, therefore showing that our relationship is distinctly at odds with democratic sentiment. So, as we inch toward military engagement with Iran, Saudi Arabia's enemy and a country much more amenable to American values, what path forward is there toward not only rejecting Saudi Arabian diplomacy, but affirmatively displacing their oppressive state?

I felt the same way about Trump but it appears we treat Saudi Arabia almost exactly like we treat Israel. Doesn't matter the administration, nor the transgression--those countries have our unwavering support both financially and vocally. I'm not screaming outright conspiracy, but I don't think it's mere coincidence.

 

[Trotsky]

I felt the same way about Trump but it appears we treat Saudi Arabia almost exactly like we treat Israel. Doesn't matter the administration, nor the transgression--those countries have our unwavering support both financially and vocally. I'm not screaming outright conspiracy, but I don't think it's mere coincidence.

It's a problem with power retention being more important to public officials than abiding by their own moral judgment.

You arent willing to sacrifice to your cause. You are just complaining about trump. How about this though: women can drive now. It's a big step. Maybe we are slowly getting through. In just a generation they might be as advanced as Iran or even Egypt

Your argument is: you don't live "off eh grid" and cease communication with organized society, therefore you are not willing to pay $1 more for gas so that death, oppression, and terrorism drastically declines and literally hundreds of millions of peoples' lives improve.

Ok.

Great logic.

Also, Saudi Arabia is pulling Egypt right with Wahhabi proselytizing.

 

[cincymma79]

I felt the same way about Trump but it appears we treat Saudi Arabia almost exactly like we treat Israel. Doesn't matter the administration, nor the transgression--those countries have our unwavering support both financially and vocally. I'm not screaming outright conspiracy, but I don't think it's mere coincidence.

Who is the good guy in the Middle East?

 

[Trotsky]

We would probably be on our way out of the M.E. by now if it weren't for leftists who in the 70s and 80s put a halt to nuclear energy expansion in America.

Now those same leftists and environmentalists are admitting they were wrong and that nuclear energy is actually one of the cleaner forms of mass producible energy.

Uhh, ok?

Setting aside the complete inaccuracy of your argument, do you have anything to add other than partisan insult throwing?

 

[cincymma79]

It's a problem with power retention being more important to public officials than abiding by their own moral judgment.



Your argument is: you don't live "off eh grid" and cease communication with organized society, therefore you are not willing to pay $1 more for gas so that death, oppression, and terrorism drastically declines and literally hundreds of millions of peoples' lives improve.

Ok.

Great logic.

Also, Saudi Arabia is pulling Egypt right with Wahhabi proselytizing.

Egypt fucking sucks. Every country in he entire Middle East is awful. Off the charts fucking terrible. Being the best country in the Middle East is like being the tallest mushroom on a piece of shit. So when I say someday they could be as advanced as Egypt Im making a joke about the entire region

 

[Trotsky]

Who is the good guy in the Middle East?

Relatively, of course, but Jordan, Lebanon, Iran, and Turkey are all saints compared to the Saudis.

The Jordanian and Lebanese are some of the most good natured people in the world. (Just to dispel the idea that all Middle Easterners are bad).

 

[cincymma79]

Relatively, of course, but Jordan, Lebanon, Iran, and Turkey are all saints compared to the Saudis.

The Jordanian and Lebanese are some of the most good natured people in the world. (Just to dispel the idea that all Middle Easterners are bad).

I know at least three or four good Iranians. That does not mean that every single country over there, literally all of them, are not absolute shit holes