How can the US people force the government to reject Saudi Arabia?

[Trotsky]

I know at least three or four good Iranians. That does not mean that every single country over there, literally all of them, are not absolute shit holes

I'm glad you have Iranian friends. I actually don't (at least here in the states), but I've been to Iran a few times and love it.

They are "shit holes" to the extent that they are desert countries that are resource poor and politically fragmented. But that doesn't change the fact that literally no Middle Eastern country is as bad as Saudi Arabia in every quantifiable way. I have been to Jordan, Iran, and Lebanon, and I would be open to going to any other country in the region (including Syria, pre-cluster fuck), but I would never, ever consider going to Saudi Arabia.

 

[Ishaq]

Saudi and OPEC petrodollar is what keeps the $ the reserve currency of the world.

They are your biggest friend in terms of the benefits US derives from them.

 

[Fluffernutter]

and there it is.

you want to F saudi arabia? buy a tesla. support dems pushing for climate change regulations.

I think you just found a new slogan for Tesla

 

[Rematch]

When the US people have no issue with the price of gas rising higher.

 

[cincymma79]

I'm glad you have Iranian friends. I actually don't (at least here in the states), but I've been to Iran a few times and love it.

They are "shit holes" to the extent that they are desert countries that are resource poor and politically fragmented. But that doesn't change the fact that literally no Middle Eastern country is as bad as Saudi Arabia in every quantifiable way. I have been to Jordan, Iran, and Lebanon, and I would be open to going to any other country in the region (including Syria, pre-cluster fuck), but I would never, ever consider going to Saudi Arabia.

They are shitholes because of their leaders. Anywhere blasphemy and apostasy is a crime is a shit place to be. Avoid at all costs. I had fun in Dubai when I was sent there but I'd never go as a civilian. Rolling the dice.

 

[VivaRevolution]

There are no ambiguities as to how I feel about Donald Trump, but one of the admittedly many areas of optimism that I held for Trump's rise and subsequent presidency (besides curbing lobbyism, normalizing healthcare discussions, and working for American laborers-- all completely lost causes) was the possibility that he would boorishly reject the nuance of the diplomatic history between the United States and Saudi Arabia and rally support against them for reasons that are, well, completely obvious.

But that did not happen, and Trump slobbed the knob of the Saudi family like every other president has done. That is despite the fact that the US intelligence community knows for a fact that (1) Saudi Arabia is by far--and it's not close--the biggest ideological exporter of terrorism, (2) Saudi Arabia is also by far the biggest financial backer of Islamic terrorist organizations, (3) Saudi Arabia is home to the fiercest anti-American sentiment in the Muslim world, despite being our ally, (4) Saudi Arabia is home to the world's strictest, most conservative, and least peaceable Islamic ideology, and (5) Saudi Arabia is the most oppressive, least democratic, and most human rights abuse-ridden country in the Middle East.

Now, last week, Trump gave a speech espousing aggression towards Iran (a much more secular, much less abusive, and far less terroristic state) on the basis of claims more much readily attributable to Saudi Arabia (anti-democracy, hostility, etc.), showing that there is still institutional and popular resentment of those qualities. Yet, the Donald has gone completely silent on the Saudi family since he got in a catty twitter spat with one of them during the GOP Primary.


We know, across Republican and Democratic voters, there is no love for Saudi Arabia and a universal preference for rejecting international ties with them, therefore showing that our relationship is distinctly at odds with democratic sentiment. So, as we inch toward military engagement with Iran, Saudi Arabia's enemy and a country much more amenable to American values, what path forward is there toward not only rejecting Saudi Arabian diplomacy, but affirmatively displacing their oppressive state?

I don't think we can get our occupied government to do anything in our current status quo.

I have basically accepted that short of a political revolution where we organize to take back the state legislatures, and hold a constitutional convention, that we will continue to deteriorate into a banana republic.

 

[VivaRevolution]

they have a ton of oil, enough to affect world pricing. you'd be bitching up a storm if gas went up 1 dollar a gallon. there isn't much he or anyone can do

Then remove ourselves from the global commodities market. Fracking made us energy independent again. It seems like a issue of national security.

 

[cincymma79]

Then remove ourselves from the global commodities market. Fracking made us energy independent again. It seems like a issue of national security.

We sell our oil on that market though

 

[Islam Imamate]

We sell our oil on that market though

The connection to the Saudis seems deeper than most assume and this comment touches on that. Its not that we need their oil, its that the world market needs their oil and the US, as the ultimate defender of the current world order, is invested in making sure that oil is supplied to the global market.

Its the case with the other Mideast countries too. IIRC most of the oil from Iraq after the US invasion ended up going to China but that's okay because Mideast oil supplying the East Asian market means those states aren't ramping up the oil prices from the sources the US tends to get its foreign oil from(Canada and Latin America).

So its not as easy as the US getting out of the oil market, a critical mass of the world needs to move past it before its leverage is gone and we can ditch the Saudis.

 

[Cuauhtemoc]

The connection to the Saudis seems deeper than most assume and this comment touches on that. Its not that we need their oil, its that the world market needs their oil and the US, as the ultimate defender of the current world order, is invested in making sure that oil is supplied to the global market.

Its the case with the other Mideast countries too. IIRC most of the oil from Iraq after the US invasion ended up going to China but that's okay because Mideast oil supplying the East Asian market means those states aren't ramping up the oil prices from the sources the US tends to get its foreign oil from(Canada and Latin America).

So its not as easy as the US getting out of the oil market, a critical mass of the world needs to move past it before its leverage is gone and we can ditch the Saudis.

Exactly, one of the dumbest things I read on the internet with some regularity is that "china got all the oil", although it doesn't matter, as long as the prices remain low. Ok, maybe ideally the US would control all the oil supply and let china starve to death.

On the topic, there isn't much you can do, all politicians support Saudi Arabia. You can vote for any of them, they may claim they will oppose it but will not. It's the same with Israel and to a lesser degree South Korea. You may also hate a possible war with north korea but all politicians will support it if they attack South Korea or Japan.
As the USA is a representative democracy your opinion doesn't matter at all, only the politicians' votes.

You can develop a source of renewable energy that is better than oil and crush saudi arabia though. Electric cars as they are right now won't cut it, they're extremely expensive, use hard to get lithium and their range suck compared to even an old gas car, they're crap compared to a hybrid car that burns gas but is also very efficient.

 

[HIMBOB]

Yes you would. You haven't gone off eh grid or bought an electric car. You aren't committed to anything other than finding a new way to bitch. Be honest. At least that's a starting point for a discussion


Oh and you can google trump denouncing Saudi Arabia

You think people make electricity with oil outside of the gulf?

 

[cincymma79]

You think people make electricity with oil outside of the gulf?

THe hell you say

 

[mon]

How can the US people force the government to reject Saudi Arabia?

I won't lie I'm struggling to be polite tonight. Do you live in a democratically elected country? Are you able to represent people who believe as you do?

Yes its that simple you run for a position as an elected representative. Hand out fliers, talk to people from all walks of life and represent your own viewpoint. Yes it takes hard work and a lot of effort, unless you're a born liar

If you actually mean "how do can I force the US people to see the world the way I do?" I guess the answers the same but to be more persuasive.
I can also recommend such resources as
http://truediscipleship.com/religious-lying/
http://www.theimaginativeconservative.org/2017/03/christian-liars-t-renee-kozinski.html

Actually I just put Liar/religion etc into a google search and kabang(or some such) we have an answer. 1 Be a complete piece of lying shit, 2 Manipulate when/as you can and 3 see 1 and 2

You'll be right mate

 

[mon]

They are shitholes because of their leaders. Anywhere blasphemy and apostasy is a crime is a shit place to be. Avoid at all costs. I had fun in Dubai when I was sent there but I'd never go as a civilian. Rolling the dice.

Please explain? I'm a civilian and while I have no desire to do more than a fly through the more info the better.

 

[tonni]

I have the same 1991 car that I bought when I was 16. But I live in a city and use public transit.

So, now that I have acknowledged your deflecting ad hominem, do you agree that the most brutal, least democratic, and most terroristic country in the world should not receive diplomatic impunity from your United States.

Also, I'm sorry that I haven't "gone off eh grid." I didn't realize I had to be Henry David Thoreau just so that I can have public policy arguments without being vulnerable to moronic absolutism by people who are too stupid to have a rational conversation.

funny how that's a go-to argument: "you haven't gone off the grid", as if a) that's a feasibly possibility in this day and age and b) it matters in the big picture, or in the discussion, that you individually haven't abandoned society

 

[cincymma79]

Please explain? I'm a civilian and while I have no desire to do more than a fly through the more info the better.

A lot of people go and have fun. I'm sure if you go you'll be fine. However, don't be surprised if you're there and something does happen. This assumes that you were talking about Dubai

 

[cincymma79]

funny how that's a go-to argument: "you haven't gone off the grid", as if a) that's a feasibly possibility in this day and age and b) it matters in the big picture, or in the discussion, that you individually haven't abandoned society

That is the answer. Enough people go off grid to affect oil prices. Don't like it? Tough shit

 

[Boxiana]

they have a ton of oil, enough to affect world pricing. you'd be bitching up a storm if gas went up 1 dollar a gallon. there isn't much he or anyone can do

It's not so much the price of oil which matters, but the currency in which it is priced.

Take away the petroDOLLAR, and you strip the US of its monetary power.

The Saudis can use (and doubtless have used) that threat against any US administration, hence they get a pass for all the other shit.

http://ftmdaily.com/preparing-for-the-collapse-of-the-petrodollar-system/

 

[forum poster]

There are no ambiguities as to how I feel about Donald Trump, but one of the admittedly many areas of optimism that I held for Trump's rise and subsequent presidency (besides curbing lobbyism, normalizing healthcare discussions, and working for American laborers-- all completely lost causes) was the possibility that he would boorishly reject the nuance of the diplomatic history between the United States and Saudi Arabia and rally support against them for reasons that are, well, completely obvious.

But that did not happen, and Trump slobbed the knob of the Saudi family like every other president has done. That is despite the fact that the US intelligence community knows for a fact that (1) Saudi Arabia is by far--and it's not close--the biggest ideological exporter of terrorism, (2) Saudi Arabia is also by far the biggest financial backer of Islamic terrorist organizations, (3) Saudi Arabia is home to the fiercest anti-American sentiment in the Muslim world, despite being our ally, (4) Saudi Arabia is home to the world's strictest, most conservative, and least peaceable Islamic ideology, and (5) Saudi Arabia is the most oppressive, least democratic, and most human rights abuse-ridden country in the Middle East.

Now, last week, Trump gave a speech espousing aggression towards Iran (a much more secular, much less abusive, and far less terroristic state) on the basis of claims more much readily attributable to Saudi Arabia (anti-democracy, hostility, etc.), showing that there is still institutional and popular resentment of those qualities. Yet, the Donald has gone completely silent on the Saudi family since he got in a catty twitter spat with one of them during the GOP Primary.


We know, across Republican and Democratic voters, there is no love for Saudi Arabia and a universal preference for rejecting international ties with them, therefore showing that our relationship is distinctly at odds with democratic sentiment. So, as we inch toward military engagement with Iran, Saudi Arabia's enemy and a country much more amenable to American values, what path forward is there toward not only rejecting Saudi Arabian diplomacy, but affirmatively displacing their oppressive state?

No one had any idea. No one knew how complicated shifting away from oil was!
The long term strategy of moving away from fossil fuels could of been planned over a time frame of the last 40 years. If it wasn't for the "libertarian" and Republican dipshits taking money from certain corporations we would of been on a much better trajectory.

Here's the beauty of the free market. The beauty of the free market is that they would never do anything that would jeapodise they're customers. Because if they done anything to harm their customer's they would quickly go out of business and the invisible hand would swoop in and save the lives of generations.

Oops.

 

[KBE6EKCTAH_CCP]

Yes you would. You haven't gone off eh grid or bought an electric car. You aren't committed to anything other than finding a new way to bitch. Be honest. At least that's a starting point for a discussion


Oh and you can google trump denouncing Saudi Arabia

That is a bad post. Why wouldn't he buy a Tesla if it came to that?

The fact that he isn't driving a tesla now or that he isn't protesting day and night against the Saudis does not mean that he couldn't adapt or that he would regret a regime change.

With your mentality there isn't much point in discussing politics at all is there?