How legit is Takeru??

[Yodsanan]

What does winning a K-1 title mean? It's brand name but what else? Is it not obvious that the goal of K-1 is to identify stars and then grab miscellaneous dudes for them to fight?

Do people who have a grasp of Muay Thai care about Saenchai's current win streak and whatever titles he picks up along the way? No. Why is Takeru any different?

Because with Takeru it's more like a big fish in a small pond kind of situation ( and let's not act like Taiga, Exakoustidis, Ozawa, Yun Qi and Whelan aren't good fighters ). Nobodys comparing his three K1 titles with other multiple times K1 champs like Buakaw or Hoost, but his resume is adding up nonetheless and he's taking every challenge ahead of him. I still got Koya ahead.

not really compareable to Saenchai current streak.

 

[Snubnoze707]

What does winning a K-1 title mean? It's brand name but what else? Is it not obvious that the goal of K-1 is to identify stars and then grab miscellaneous dudes for them to fight?

I think everyone will agree that Kickboxing is judged on consistency, so winning a K-1 title which is a 3-fight in one night tournament two times and a near undefeated record certainly suggests consistency, so that's what it means.

Who isn't miscellaneous at his weight that he should be fighting? It seems the only acceptable answers are people in his weight that are currently fighting in Muay Thai, so if he was to compete with them under Kickboxing rules would that fulfill his acceptance level as being a top fighter or would it require him beating those same guys in FTR? I'm just trying to gauge the distance of this goal post.

 

[Cocakillbana]

Because with Takeru it's more like a big fish in a small pond kind of situation ( and let's not act like Taiga, Exakoustidis, Ozawa, Yun Qi and Whelan aren't good fighters ). Nobodys comparing his three K1 titles with other multiple times K1 champs like Buakaw or Hoost, but his resume is adding up nonetheless and he's taking every challenge ahead of him. I still got Koya ahead.

not really compareable to Saenchai current streak.

Not comparable? Saenchai's streak is perhaps more impressive, if anything.

Matt Embree
Charlie Peters
Chadd Collins
Anvar Boynazarov
Aziz Hlali
Yetkin Ozkul
Massaro Glunder

Are these guys not comparable to Takeru's competition? Hell, why is someone like Slimani not regarded as an equal to who Takeru's fighting?

 

[Cocakillbana]

I think everyone will agree that Kickboxing is judged on consistency, so winning a K-1 title which is a 3-fight in one night tournament two times and a near undefeated record certainly suggests consistency, so that's what it means.

Who isn't miscellaneous at his weight that he should be fighting? It seems the only acceptable answers are people in his weight that are currently fighting in Muay Thai, so if he was to compete with them under Kickboxing rules would that fulfill his acceptance level as being a top fighter or would it require him beating those same guys in FTR? I'm just trying to gauge the distance of this goal post.

Yes. If Takeru beat legitimate featherweight to lightweight Thais, under kickboxing rules, it would impress me.

Just think abut these questions:

How would Takeru's opponents be considered in a Muay Thai fight against a good Thai?

How would good Thais be considered in a kickboxing fight against Takeru's opponents?

Answer 1: they'd be massive underdogs
Answer 2: they'd be considered favorites more times than not even without kickboxing experience (clinch-heavy fighters are about the only ones most wouldn't pick)

Pretty clear where the talent is...

 

[Snubnoze707]

I don't think anyone is denying Saenchai's GOATness. He certainly rates higher than Takeru on the Joe Rogan scale.

To me it just seems like two different of sports in these weight classes. Sure, by sheer numbers and rate of competition the Thai's have the edge in competitiveness no doubt, but they also fight tailored to a different rule set.

 

[Kanka]

I don't think anyone is denying Saenchai's GOATness. He certainly rates higher than Takeru on the Joe Rogan scale.

To me it just seems like two different of sports in these weight classes. Sure, by sheer numbers and rate of competition the Thai's have the edge in competitiveness no doubt, but they also fight tailored to a different rule set.

What coca means in nobody is praising Saenchais accomplishments of his last 10 fights because he isn't fighting top level guys, but those last 10 opponents are arguably higher level than Takeru's last 10 opponents

 

[Yodsanan]

Pretty clear where the talent is...

Yes, in muay thai. But that's not the sport we're talking about here.

Hell, why is someone like Slimani not regarded as an equal to who Takeru's fighting?

I remember you saying Slimani was greater than Petrosyan based on his record.

Yes. If Takeru beat legitimate featherweight to lightweight Thais, under kickboxing rules, it would impress me.

Does this win take Rodthung passed Tenshin as the supreme striking talent of the world, or is this just a collective shrug because of place of birth and whatnots?

No, you would still complain.

 

[Kanka]

Yes, in muay thai. But that's not the sport we're talking about here.




I remember you saying Slimani was greater than Petrosyan based on his record.






No, you would still complain.

Hypothetically: are there thais in his weight class that would probably beat him under kickboxing rules?

 

[Snubnoze707]

What coca means in nobody is praising Saenchais accomplishments of his last 10 fights because he isn't fighting top level guys, but those last 10 opponents are arguably higher level than Takeru's last 10 opponents

Saenchai's legacy is set in stone he doesn't need to be praised awesome performances are expected, but he does get praise. In fact, he gets praise for his performances rather than who he beat, which is in direct parallel to Takeru...

 

[Kanka]

Saenchai's legacy is set in stone he doesn't need to be praised awesome performances are expected, but he does get praise. In fact, he gets praise for his performances rather than who he beat, which is in direct parallel to Takeru...

I agree Saenchai is a bad comparison but Takeru hasn't even beat a top 100 kickfighter and people are saying he is a P4P top fighter?

 

[Snubnoze707]

I agree Saenchai is a bad comparison but Takeru hasn't even beat a top 100 kickfighter and people are saying he is a P4P top fighter?

Haven't seen anyone calling Takeru P4P so I can't speak on that. Certainly nobody on this forum is saying that unless I missed something. In fact, I was under the impression that he sucked after Dillashaw-gate. All the praise that I see is about his performances, which are undeniably awesome.

Who's to say some of the guys he beat weren't top 100? It's laughable to even consider such a list. People can't even agree on top 10 let alone 100.

 

[Kanka]

Haven't seen anyone calling Takeru P4P so I can't speak on that. Certainly nobody on this forum is saying that unless I missed something. In fact, I was under the impression that he sucked after Dillashaw-gate. All the praise that I see is about his performances, which are undeniably awesome.

Who's to say some of the guys he beat weren't top 100? It's laughable to even consider such a list. People can't even agree on top 10 let alone 100.

If you haven't seen anybody put him as a top P4P just check the combatpress rankings. Perhaps not on this forum, bu i'm sure alot of people think he is a top P4P kickboxer. Not believing this is just denial or a failure to recognize all the hype he is getting. Even if he wasn't on combatpress list he'd still be overrated. Kickboxing goes beyond f42

It's not a precise number lol but i'm sure it's possible to find 100 fighters that have accomplished more in the last year than his opponents. Not that i have the energy to do it but you should get my point

 

[Snubnoze707]

For the record, I'm fine with him being considered top 10 P4P. He's the most dominate Kick boxer in his division. They got Kaew in the top 10 too and he just got toarched by a guy that isn't even #top1000

 

[SuperLuigi]

I have no problem with him getting more hyped because he is a Japanese guy with cool hair and a flashy aggressive style. Presentation is always going to factor into popularity and such. Even if you think the 55-60kg nak muays would beat the kickboxers at that weights, its still really impressive the way he blitzed through them.

 

[Kanka]

I have no problem with him getting more hyped because he is a Japanese guy with cool hair and a flashy aggressive style. Presentation is always going to factor into popularity and such. Even if you think the 55-60kg nak muays would beat the kickboxers at that weights, its still really impressive the way he blitzed through them.

I don't have a problem with him getting hyped either but the guy who started the thread asked where he ranks in the current kickboxing P4P list. I simply responded that he is not near top P4P level and that he is overrated by many. He also asked who can beat him under K-1 rules and there are probably a handful of thais that could beat him in K-1 if they had the chance to fight him. I don't see any logical ways to argue against this.

 

[Cocakillbana]

Yes, in muay thai. But that's not the sport we're talking about here.

Huh? I said regardless of rules (good Thais would usually be viewed as the superior fighter and perceived favorite against most of Takeru's opponents). Does that not say a lot?

I remember you saying Slimani was greater than Petrosyan based on his record.

That wasn't obvious sarcasm? Moreover, this didn't answer my question in any way.

No, you would still complain.

I don't see how my "Rodthung post" has any connection with what I've said here.

 

[SuperLuigi]

He also asked who can beat him under K-1 rules and there are probably a handful of thais that could beat him in K-1 if they had the chance to fight him. I don't see any logical ways to argue against this.

I don't disagree, but out of curiosity who would you put in a KB top 10 P4P? I think he is better than guys like Alex Pereira and Harut Grigorian.

 

[Yodsanan]

Huh? I said regardless of rules (good Thais would usually be viewed as the superior fighter and perceived favorite against most of Takeru's opponents). Does that not say a lot?

we don't make rankings based on what if's and people that never have competed under kickboxing. I'm sure most good thais make better opponents than Takeru current opponents.

That wasn't obvious sarcasm? Moreover, this didn't answer my question in any way.

who did he beat? enlighten me, since you seem such a big fan of him.

I don't see how my "Rodthung post" has any connection with what I've said here.

Tenshin beats thais and you still trash talk him.

 

[Kanka]

I don't disagree, but out of curiosity who would you put in a KB top 10 P4P? I think he is better than guys like Alex Pereira and Harut Grigorian.

I don't have such a list but i could list 30 kickvoxers i think are better than Takeru.

What makes Takeru better than let's say Yasuhiro Kido, Minoru Kimura, Yasuomi Soda, Yuta Kubo etc apart from that he fights in a weaker division? Those guys have proven themselves against better competition while Takeru hasn't

 

[Yodsanan]

What makes Takeru better than let's say Yasuhiro Kido, Minoru Kimura, Yasuomi Soda, Yuta Kubo etc apart from that he fights in a weaker division?
What makes Takeru better than let's say Those guys have proven themselves against better competition while Takeru hasn't

just stop. you clearly have no idea what you are talking about.