Opinion How much responsibility does a government have to generate money other than taxes?

[Deleted member 509053]

Ah I see, thanks guys this makes a bit more sense now. I was always wondering thinking there's no way it could have been that blatantly "free" and function the same back then like I hear/read sometimes. Given the change of times, I'd actually lean to think that maybe we should be taxed as a whole more than we are now, as long as the money is used correctly and going to the right places. The changes between pre-1900 and today are monumental so it wouldn't realistically make sense to be taxing less.

Our taxes now are grossly misused/wasted. I would be livid to pay more than I already do.

 

[Leagon]

For internet, the government allows private companies to install the infrastructure for a given area and maintain a monopoly or near monopoly on providing internet service for that area.

It'd be like letting the construction companies own the roads after they finished making them.

For reference, Chatanooga TN got tired of waiting around for internet providers to sign up and build the infrastructure, so they did it themselves. Their rates are cheaper, their service is solid, and they offer a 1 GB/ 1 GB connection (10x faster than 100MB/ 100MB which is generally considered fast by other providers) for only like 30$ more than a competitor would charge for 100MB / 100 MB.

https://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/04/...eeds-business-development-in-chattanooga.html

Lol, good on Chattanooga.

And, yeah, your analogy really shows how insane it is.

@Warlord Palis

 

[cooks1]

In America, there's always discussion surrounding income taxes, and there's an implicit assumption that anything that costs money requires tax money to fund. Even Republicans, who favor keeping individual income, seem to just accept that things must be paid for via tax money.

But this is a strange assumption. There are several countries that have no taxes at all and many countries with very low tax rates.

https://flagtheory.com/tax-free-countries/

Obviously these countries are much smaller and have different financial burdens, but it raises the question of how much responsibility a government has to find ways to make money other than depending on the income of its citizens.

As I've said before on this board, I have no background in economics, so this may be simpler or more complicated than how I'm presenting it. But why is there no expectation that our government should be able to maintain the country without our 3+ trillion tax dollars?

With the high immigrant population the US has, would it be unreasonable to have slightly steeper taxes on non-residents (especially megarich ones) than on permanent residents and citizens?

No Problem. Just have governmentstate ownership of our natural resources and their means of production.

States with high immigrant populations and state income tax could certainly lower income and property taxes and raise sales taxes and would accomplish some of what you are looking for.

 

[EradiatedHaggis]

No, keep these socialist ideas OUT of America. The government should not be controlling any type of business or industry. This is a thing that has failed so many times it boggles the mind that anyone still thinks its a good idea outside of those in power that want even MORE of it...

 

[Lord Commander Palis]

Lol, good on Chattanooga.

And, yeah, your analogy really shows how insane it is.

@Warlord Palis

Need attention?

 

[BangersAndSmash]

No, keep these socialist ideas OUT of America. The government should not be controlling any type of business or industry. This is a thing that has failed so many times it boggles the mind that anyone still thinks its a good idea outside of those in power that want even MORE of it...

You're absolutely right. Private business have a perfect record with energy companies.

Oh wait...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enron
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_Future_Holdings
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacific_Gas_and_Electric_Company

 

[MMAViewer]

No, keep these socialist ideas OUT of America. The government should not be controlling any type of business or industry. This is a thing that has failed so many times it boggles the mind that anyone still thinks its a good idea outside of those in power that want even MORE of it...

What about the USPS and the Military?
Honestly I'd rather we try governmental healthcare and hope we can be as successful at that as we are at the mail and military. The private option is to have 3 industries fucking us. The Insurance, caregiver and pharmaceutical industries ARE ALL FUCKING US!

 

[JudoThrowFiasco]

Competitive crown corporations(not sure what america would call them) and increased public investment in private start ups could all generate revenue. But tbe government negotiating trade deals and international bids all benefit as well.

 

[EradiatedHaggis]

You're absolutely right. Private business have a perfect record with energy companies.

The difference is that no company controls 100% of an energy market and so if one fails, another company replaces it...when a government controls it all and fucks shit up, the people are screwed for a long time. Congrats on your socialist derpiness.

 

[EradiatedHaggis]

What about the USPS and the Military?
Honestly I'd rather we try governmental healthcare and hope we can be as successful at that as we are at the mail and military. The private option is to have 3 industries fucking us. The Insurance, caregiver and pharmaceutical industries ARE ALL FUCKING US!

There was NOTHING before the USPS...and the military?

Are you going to bring up library's and Fire and Rescue in this topic about business industries?

 

[MMAViewer]

There was NOTHING before the USPS...and the military?

Are you going to bring up library's and Fire and Rescue in this topic about business industries?

How does "there was nothing before" and not make them government?
Look I get what you are saying about innovation, but my point was that government does do some things well and I would trust them more running hc than the 3 industries being run privately I mentioned.

And to be clear I don't believe all government runs smoothly, not even close. I also don't believe that we should not allow private insurance and private doctors even if we did have government run hc.

 

[R. Jeremy]

Cannot pay the military industrial complex with chickens

 

[EradiatedHaggis]

How does "there was nothing before" and not make them government?

The topic is about government taking over industries...you bringing up a thing that had no industry and a thing that is not an industry is not an argument.

 

[MMAViewer]

The topic is about government taking over industries...you bringing up a thing that had no industry and a thing that is not an industry is not an argument.

I was refuting your argument that government shouldn't control any type of business or industry. Your pointing out that there was no mail industry proves that government can be innovative and is still successful today with the USPS despite its private competitors.

 

[EradiatedHaggis]

I was refuting your argument that government shouldn't control any type of business or industry. Your pointing out that there was no mail industry proves that government can be innovative and is still successful today with the USPS despite its private competitors.

Jesus jumped up Christ on a cross...

Ok, let me play with this stupid argument of yours.

Goverment is good because it created the USPS out of nothing...yet the USPS has been a failing outdated industry because it did not evolved due to government and now FedEx and UPS is doing it far better and for less...your point is moot. Taa Daa!

But before you come up with another. How about NASA? In fact, how about BOTH NASA and ROSCOSMOS, Russias space agency? BOTH created by their governments, controlled by their governments and BOTH responsible for the sudden drop in innovations in space related everything.

Only after outside companies coming in has there been a sudden leap forward again as well as the massive drop in COSTS related.

Just stop. There has been no valid argument made in favor of socialized ANYTHING by even world leading social economists that hasnt been shot the fuck down by even average other economists...so, there is nothing you are going to be able to come up with that wont also be shot down easily. That is just reality. Thank you history.

 

[MMAViewer]

Jesus jumped up Christ on a cross...

Ok, let me play with this stupid argument of yours.

Goverment is good because it created the USPS out of nothing...yet the USPS has been a failing outdated industry because it did not evolved due to government and now FedEx and UPS is doing it far better and for less...your point is moot. Taa Daa!

But before you come up with another. How about NASA? In fact, how about BOTH NASA and ROSCOSMOS, Russias space agency? BOTH created by their governments, controlled by their governments and BOTH responsible for the sudden drop in innovations in space related everything.

Only after outside companies coming in has there been a sudden leap forward again as well as the massive drop in COSTS related.

Just stop. There has been no valid argument made in favor of socialized ANYTHING by even world leading social economists that hasnt been shot the fuck down by even average other economists...so, there is nothing you are going to be able to come up with that wont also be shot down easily. That is just reality. Thank you history.

No FedEx and ups aren't doing it better or cheaper.
NASA....???


Are you just deflecting here? Squirrels? You lost me here man sorry.

 

[EradiatedHaggis]

No FedEx and ups aren't doing it better or cheaper.
NASA....???


Are you just deflecting here? Squirrels? You lost me here man sorry.

Are you actually saying you think that USPS is not running a deficit and UPS and FedEx are not making massive profits all while acting as if NASA was innovating with a near 3 decade old design that was outdone by every single company trying to get the new shuttle design contract only to see SpaceX go above and beyond what NASA was even contemplating doing?!?

Get the actual fuck out of here with your bullshit. NASA was doing so god damn bad that NO ONE believes the government will even be IN the space program business by 2040 anymore, its all going to be commercial based and even Neil Degrasse Tyson is pushing for it because...HISTORY AND FACTS.

SOMETIMES governments start things, then...it needs to get the FUCK OUT OF THE WAY for the money makers because they are the ONLY ones that push things to the goal and beyond. Always.

 

[MMAViewer]

Are you actually saying you think that USPS is not running a deficit and UPS and FedEx are not making massive profits all while acting as if NASA was innovating with a near 3 decade old design that was outdone by every single company trying to get the new shuttle design contract only to see SpaceX go above and beyond what NASA was even contemplating doing?!?

Get the actual fuck out of here with your bullshit. NASA was doing so god damn bad that NO ONE believes the government will even be IN the space program business by 2040 anymore, its all going to be commercial based and even Neil Degrasse Tyson is pushing for it because...HISTORY AND FACTS.

SOMETIMES governments start things, then...it needs to get the FUCK OUT OF THE WAY for the money makers because they are the ONLY ones that push things to the goal and beyond. Always.

You don't seem to know much about the USPS. Do you realize how solvent they are?
Does fed ex and ups have to pay for their future employees pension years in advance? Do you realize the USPS lends the government/taxpayers millions upon millions of dollars?


And fuck your bullshit about NASA. You are the only one deflecting with that shit. Ain't no one listing to that babble.

 

[EradiatedHaggis]

You don't seem to know much about the USPS. Do you realize how solvent they are?
Does fed ex and ups have to pay for their future employees pension years in a advance? Do you realize the USPS lends the government/taxpayers millions upon millions of dollars?


And fuck your bullshit about NASA. You are the only one deflecting with that shit. Ain't no one listing to that babble.

Yeah, babble...

2017 "Mail volume is now at a 29-year low, and for the past 10 years, USPS recorded annual losses as high as $15.9 billion. Last year, it tallied a $5.6 billion loss."
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...ice-eyes-bipartisan-bill-solve-woes/97944594/

But thanks for once again proving that socialists talk OUT THEIR ASS AND KNOW SHIT ABOUT FUCK.

 

[MMAViewer]

Yeah, babble...

2017 "Mail volume is now at a 29-year low, and for the past 10 years, USPS recorded annual losses as high as $15.9 billion. Last year, it tallied a $5.6 billion loss."
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...ice-eyes-bipartisan-bill-solve-woes/97944594/

But thanks for once again proving that socialists talk OUT THEIR ASS AND KNOW SHIT ABOUT FUCK.

Fake news.
Can you answer the question I asked about pension or no?

Here is a closer to reality source btw.

https://about.usps.com/news/national-releases/2017/pr17_069.htm