How the hell is the WWE not dead yet?

sleepwalk said:
Yeah. I have to argue with my uberfan cousin all the time. Kevin Owens is an incredible talent in the ring and on the stick but the casual fan watches him feud with Roman Reigns or Brock Lesnar and they're taken out of the moment instantly. To quoth Disco Inferno Glen Gilberto, "That wellness policy isn't doing these guys any favors."



Always my sentiments.
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My 75 yr old dad still thinks wwe is real
 
Revolver said:
Kids love it and it still generates a ton of revenue.
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Does it though? They have a hard time drawing a crowd these days and house shows are the backbone of any succesful promotion. If no one shows up, you can't stay in the black for long.
 
RhinoRush said:
Does it though? They have a hard time drawing a crowd these days and house shows are the backbone of any succesful promotion. If no one shows up, you can't stay in the black for long.
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Makes sense but a big house means big fees and papering usually. Since the wrestlers only get a chunk it really isn't that hard running smaller venues. Also television is really the backbone, Uni is ponying up 200 million annually for Raw and Smackdown.

Your WCW comment is the biggest issue. The company has no incentive to take risks or even care that much about the consumer. Their motto may as well be the audience has no where else to go. They have something popular monopolized that they make less popular each passing year and since there is no rising tide no other boats can really float. TNA has lost more than ECW did in total every single year, the Canadians who bought them this year are sinking and can't even sell their library because once they go bankrupt the E can buy it for pennies.
 
RhinoRush said:
Those numbers seems suspect as hell to me by good for them if they are making it work.

Shocks and amazes me that 16 years on, still no one has stepped up to fill WCW's shoes.
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Suspect? Those numbers are audited by public accounting firms. Lol
 
Darth Nevets said:
Makes sense but a big house means big fees and papering usually. Since the wrestlers only get a chunk it really isn't that hard running smaller venues. Also television is really the backbone, Uni is ponying up 200 million annually for Raw and Smackdown.

Your WCW comment is the biggest issue. The company has no incentive to take risks or even care that much about the consumer. Their motto may as well be the audience has no where else to go. They have something popular monopolized that they make less popular each passing year and since there is no rising tide no other boats can really float. TNA has lost more than ECW did in total every single year, the Canadians who bought them this year are sinking and can't even sell their library because once they go bankrupt the E can buy it for pennies.
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The audience has gone somewhere though. Ratings are like 20% what they were during the Attitude Era. That's what's weird to me. Why are stations paying $200 for a show no one is watching?

http://www.wrestlinginc.com/wi/news...ay-night-raw-rating-second-lowest-in-history/
 
RhinoRush said:
Those numbers seems suspect as hell to me by good for them if they are making it work.

Shocks and amazes me that 16 years on, still no one has stepped up to fill WCW's shoes.
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Public company - they can be creative with their accounting but if they fuck up they go to prison.
 
warriorscomeout said:
Plenty of people have gone to prison for accounting scandals. You're grasping at straws. They're making money.
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I don't think I'm grasping at straws. I just don't understand it. How does a company go from 800k profit to 200M while ratings decline, attendance declines and the overall quality of the product declines?

The numbers would suggest they made some huge breakthrough this year, but there is nothing to base that on other than the numbers.

Perhaps it really is just foreign markets.

But if that's the case, hopefully an American company can fill the void WWE has left here and can start providing some quality wrestling stateside.
 
RhinoRush said:
I don't think I'm grasping at straws. I just don't understand it. How does a company go from 800k profit to 200M while ratings decline, attendance declines and the overall quality of the product declines?

The numbers would suggest they made some huge breakthrough this year, but there is nothing to base that on other than the numbers.

Perhaps it really is just foreign markets.

But if that's the case, hopefully an American company can fill the void WWE has left here and can start providing some quality wrestling stateside.
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The numbers are absolutely legit, wrestling reporters scrimp through every moment of the company's dealings. There are detailed reports of every bracelet paid for in cash at a show with 200 people.

Now the value of a product is often hard to gauge. 200 million seems ridiculous but frankly it's only twice the UFC whose biggest show drew less than TNA's canceled, often unaired, B show. The problem is that advertisers hate buying wrestling, during the glory days the two big shows beat MNF head to head. WCW added another hour, that they had to bear the cost for, and was only granted an additional 2 million dollars a year. MNF charges, including preseason, ESPN over 22 million for EVERY hour.

The squareness of the product enables partnerships that are frankly, extremely valuable.

As to the last point I will say that it is impossible for any domestic company to ever compete. Too much time has passed. There is no rich vein of talent or under-served market. Even if there was the E would snatch that talent up or diversify their brand to get those dollars. They would probably just buy their competition. The only way to compete would be for a billionaire to try and hire the biggest draws and hope to build up their brand which is something much too risky.
 
WWE isn't dead yet because it has no competition. If you want to watch pro wrestling you watch WWE or you don't watch dick.
 
Blackjack said:
WWE isn't dead yet because it has no competition. If you want to watch pro wrestling you watch WWE or you don't watch dick.
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New Japan Pro Wrestling with Jim Ross on commentary, Ring of Honor, Lucha Underground (dead), PWG, Progress and even Impact (TNA) is good nowadays. No WCW level competition but you can watch a lot of shit without ever watching RAW.
 
Darth Nevets said:
The numbers are absolutely legit, wrestling reporters scrimp through every moment of the company's dealings. There are detailed reports of every bracelet paid for in cash at a show with 200 people.

Now the value of a product is often hard to gauge. 200 million seems ridiculous but frankly it's only twice the UFC whose biggest show drew less than TNA's canceled, often unaired, B show. The problem is that advertisers hate buying wrestling, during the glory days the two big shows beat MNF head to head. WCW added another hour, that they had to bear the cost for, and was only granted an additional 2 million dollars a year. MNF charges, including preseason, ESPN over 22 million for EVERY hour.

The squareness of the product enables partnerships that are frankly, extremely valuable.

As to the last point I will say that it is impossible for any domestic company to ever compete. Too much time has passed. There is no rich vein of talent or under-served market. Even if there was the E would snatch that talent up or diversify their brand to get those dollars. They would probably just buy their competition. The only way to compete would be for a billionaire to try and hire the biggest draws and hope to build up their brand which is something much too risky.
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That billionaire would quickly go bust because he would have to put in double WWE expenses to compete. Thats 1.4 billion.
 
RhinoRush said:
I don't think I'm grasping at straws. I just don't understand it. How does a company go from 800k profit to 200M while ratings decline, attendance declines and the overall quality of the product declines?

The numbers would suggest they made some huge breakthrough this year, but there is nothing to base that on other than the numbers.

Perhaps it really is just foreign markets.

But if that's the case, hopefully an American company can fill the void WWE has left here and can start providing some quality wrestling stateside.
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What figures are you talking about?

WWE made 200 million profit just before going public at the height of the Attitude Era when they were printing money with very much lower costs.

They had 700 million in revenue last year, 30 million profit. 11% increase in revenue which isn't that surprising.

All these figures are verifiable and I doubt Vince wants to go to prison at 70.

They're not Enron fixing figures with creative accounting.

http://corporate.wwe.com/investors/sec-and-other-documents/annual-reports

"In 2016, WWE delivered the highest revenue in our Company’s history, $729 million – up 11% from 2015 and an impressive 44% from 2013, the year prior to the launch of WWE Network. These results included record revenue from our Network, Television, Live Events, Venue Merchandise and WWE Shop business segments. Growth from international markets continued to fuel our performance, reaching $189 million, up 11%. WWE’s strong, top-line growth translated into a 44% increase in operating income to $55.7 million. The market continued to reward this performance. Over the past twelve months, WWE stock provided shareholders with a 12% total return (including $37 million dividend payout).1 In addition, we issued $215 million of convertible note financing on favorable terms to support the execution of our long-term growth strategy.2"
 
RhinoRush said:
Shocks and amazes me that 16 years on, still no one has stepped up to fill WCW's shoes.
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TNA was close. Or at least as close as anyone has ever come,which in reality wasn't that close at all. Still though, they built this little org up from scratch with fresh original talent, had a pretty sweet TV deal, and was slowly gaining traction and becoming a factor.

Then they went full fucking retard, hired all the people that sunk WCW, buried their original talent with has beens and WWE mid-carders, and shit the bed worse than anyone could've ever imagined.
 
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