His style is hardly boxing based. Stance is not boxing (not modern anyway) , nor is his guard. Boxers who sparred him ahead of the Mayweather fight found him very Unorthodox and martial arts like.
If the power in a punch is mostly generated by the legs, shouldn't kickers have greater potential?
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His style is hardly boxing based. Stance is not boxing (not modern anyway) , nor is his guard. Boxers who sparred him ahead of the Mayweather fight found him very Unorthodox and martial arts like.
He literally talks about how hip movement results in head movement. Seriously man, you're being ridiculously obtuse about this. You're acting like I made some absurd claim when all I'm saying is that movement at the hips will move the head. 5 seconds in front of a mirror will prove this. Shifting weight moves your head, flexing at the hips moves your head, and both are necessary for proper punching technique, which will thus move the head. Watch any good puncher.
Where the fuck do you get off thinking this isn't coming from firsthand experience? You keep saying shit about me lacking perspective or experience but the reason I'm not receptive is because, as I already told you, I've felt the punches of many different styles and been taught those punches as well, and none compared to the boxers. Not the TKD guys (they had probably the worst punches), not the kung fu guys, not the karate guys, not the kickboxers or nak muay or sambo guys, not the MMA guys, nobody punches as hard, fast and with as much leverage as boxers. They have the best, most refined punching mechanics of anyone in the world. I've tried punching the way I was taught in other arts and by other stylists and it's always been worse than boxing punches. On the other hand, every time I show someone who doesn't box how to punch correctly they're amazed at how much less effort it takes to hit with more power. And that comes down to simply weight transfer, rotation and leverage.
It had power because Kimbo absolutely smashed his own head into the punch:
Look at how his head comes forward with his chin straight up. Also, yes the kick does land on his leg. You can very, very clearly see it make contact on his knee and push his lead leg back, so Kimbo ends up with his head WAY out in front of his feet and falls down. Note that he wasn't ko'd by that shot, he catches himself on all fours. It was the followup shots that TKO'd him when he rolled to half. You're the one who doesn't understand where the power is coming from here.
Hard to beat Joe Louis or Mike Tyson for proper power punches:
Notice how both of their heads move because they sit down on the opposite hip for leverage as their body rotates, and how both the guys they hit go down looking like they just got shot. That's how to throw a damn punch. Keeping the head centered is both less stable and less powerful. It's simply inferior, which is why TKD guys punch like shit.
Why do you make a distinction between TKD and Karate punches? A TKD guy is taught the Karate bodymechanics...
Are you just trolling or what?
Jabs, uppercuts, check hooks, you don't learn that shit in TKD.
https://gfycat.com/InsignificantSelfassuredAmericancreamdraft
Please explain to me how he ISN'T boxing in all those gifs?
Jabs, uppercuts and hooks Are taught in TKD. its just shitty instructors who dont teach it right
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"A guy" - Western Boxing teaches you to load up on your punches. You don't do that if you are a Muay thai or Karate fighter. One is not better than the other. It all depends on your objectives. My only objective is to punch, that's why I transitioned to boxing. My kicking wasn't good enough. Simple at that. I do think it helps indirectly with other things but in no way is it a superior system supposing the guy wants to throw kicks into the mix. You will develop bad habits from both Karate and Boxing and Kickboxing, depending on what outlet you entered next
I just tried out the Western Boxing bodymechanics on my TKD mitts training today and I already gained a 15-20% increase in power. Nobody argues that. It's way too simplistic though to say anything but boxing instruction is a bad.
All I asked for was evidence. If you're going to enforce a belief, that's the least you can expect to provide if you wanted to convince someone.
Because you're not even referencing the same type of punch the Taekwondo practitioner was throwing; you're bringing up hooks and punches that curve at an angle. The technique for transferring power is applicable even if you punch as straight as possible at the air in front of you; it doesn't have to be the strongest punch. Which is why I questioned if you understood the mechanics from firsthand experience of how different punches and how they're thrown affect the body, since it would seem like they are all the same to you.
What you see as his lead leg being pushed is actually his knee buckling. Here is a clearer gif of the sequence:
See how Kimbo's leg actually straightens up. The push kick is done with the forefoot, you wouldn't see Seth's foot go past Kimbo's leg, if it were actually pushing against it.
How'd I know you were going to say Tyson? And not even one straight punch thrown in those gifs. Ok, so if Tyson epitomizes the perfect technique in throwing a power punch in your opinion, then why isn't he unanimously considered by all in boxing to be the most powerful puncher? Larry Holmes who lost to Tyson by KO and fought many heavy hitters in his time expressed Tyson being the sharpest puncher he's faced but not the hardest; he reserved that honor to Earnie Shavers. Tyson was around 220 lbs in his prime while Shavers was around 210 lbs; so it evidently does not have to do with mass. Why would Shavers punch harder than Tyson if the latter supposedly has the better technique for throwing power punches?
All I asked for was evidence. If you're going to enforce a belief, that's the least you can expect to provide if you wanted to convince someone.
Because you're not even referencing the same type of punch the Taekwondo practitioner was throwing; you're bringing up hooks and punches that curve at an angle. The technique for transferring power is applicable even if you punch as straight as possible at the air in front of you; it doesn't have to be the strongest punch. Which is why I questioned if you understood the mechanics from firsthand experience of how different punches and how they're thrown affect the body, since it would seem like they are all the same to you.
What you see as his lead leg being pushed is actually his knee buckling. Here is a clearer gif of the sequence:
See how Kimbo's leg actually straightens up. The push kick is done with the forefoot, you wouldn't see Seth's foot go past Kimbo's leg, if it were actually pushing against it.
How'd I know you were going to say Tyson? And not even one straight punch thrown in those gifs. Ok, so if Tyson epitomizes the perfect technique in throwing a power punch in your opinion, then why isn't he unanimously considered by all in boxing to be the most powerful puncher? Larry Holmes who lost to Tyson by KO and fought many heavy hitters in his time expressed Tyson being the sharpest puncher he's faced but not the hardest; he reserved that honor to Earnie Shavers. Tyson was around 220 lbs in his prime while Shavers was around 210 lbs; so it evidently does not have to do with mass. Why would Shavers punch harder than Tyson if the latter supposedly has the better technique for throwing power punches?
Holmes got up from Shavers best punch. His legs buckled against Tysons
Come on man you don't learn to punch like that in TKD. There are so many techniques shown in those gifs that you'll never see in any TKD competition. It's ridiculous to argue what he's doing is anything other than boxing based, especially considering he was a junior national boxing champ probably a decade before he ever stepped foot in a TKD gym.
Conor has attributes in MMA directly from his Boxing background, including timing and power. His style is however not Boxing based IMO.
Conor fights like a traditional karate/TKD fighter mixed in with boxing. He says himself in this clip that he tries to emulate their footwork:
All I asked for was evidence. If you're going to enforce a belief, that's the least you can expect to provide if you wanted to convince someone.
Because you're not even referencing the same type of punch the Taekwondo practitioner was throwing; you're bringing up hooks and punches that curve at an angle. The technique for transferring power is applicable even if you punch as straight as possible at the air in front of you; it doesn't have to be the strongest punch. Which is why I questioned if you understood the mechanics from firsthand experience of how different punches and how they're thrown affect the body, since it would seem like they are all the same to you.
What you see as his lead leg being pushed is actually his knee buckling. Here is a clearer gif of the sequence:
See how Kimbo's leg actually straightens up. The push kick is done with the forefoot, you wouldn't see Seth's foot go past Kimbo's leg, if it were actually pushing against it.
How'd I know you were going to say Tyson? And not even one straight punch thrown in those gifs. Ok, so if Tyson epitomizes the perfect technique in throwing a power punch in your opinion, then why isn't he unanimously considered by all in boxing to be the most powerful puncher? Larry Holmes who lost to Tyson by KO and fought many heavy hitters in his time expressed Tyson being the sharpest puncher he's faced but not the hardest; he reserved that honor to Earnie Shavers. Tyson was around 220 lbs in his prime while Shavers was around 210 lbs; so it evidently does not have to do with mass. Why would Shavers punch harder than Tyson if the latter supposedly has the better technique for throwing power punches?
For fucks sake...let's look at some straight punches then:
The head still moves. Every punch has it's own distinct mechanics. Not every punch is the same. You're the only one who said that. However, the head will still move on every punch, to a lesser or greater degree depending on a few factors already explained to you.
Forget the leg, that's not even important. The relevant point to this thread is that the only reason the punch hurt Kimbo is because he ran into it with his chin straight in the air and his head out in front of his feet. Even still, despite him literally throwing himself head first into the punch, he wasn't knocked out by it. He caught himself on all fours and tried to defend from half guard, but got swarmed and finished. If the punch had any real power on it's own, Kimbo throwing himself onto it would have gotten him hurt a lot worse than he was.
Are you seriously that dense? Technique is not the only factor in how hard someone hits. What a ridiculous claim to make. Tyson is unanimously regarded as one of the most powerful punchers in history, but because he wasn't literally THE hardest puncher ever you're gonna try to disregard his technique? There are many more factors than technique and mass. For someone who claims to have such a broadened perspective of power you should probably know that.
At the end of the day, the core issue here is that to maximize power in a punch, you have to engage your hips and shift your weight.
When you do those things, your head moves automatically.
Matter of fact, speaking of Shaver, let's watch how much his head moves on his power punches:
I seriously don't understand why you're continuing to argue other than not wanting to admit that you're wrong. The best punchers all engage their hips and shift their weight, which naturally results in their head moving off center. I gave you a video explaining why that happens by a highly respected coach, I showed you examples of elite fighters demonstrating it for multiple different punches, and I wrote out multiple times why it happens. You're the one that sounds like you have zero practical experience learning and watching punches from legitimately good punchers. If you did, you should have noticed by now that their heads always moves subtly during power punches and without any conscious effort. You could verify this in the mirror, by watching punching tutorials or by watching any good puncher, but instead you're here speaking purely in theory and acting like I'm the one who needs more evidence. There's a reason not a single person on this forum has stepped in to agree with you, even the TKD guy who started the thread. You're in denial of the fundamentals of punching technique.
No it doesn't. You've been boxing for like a day. You don't know shit about boxing.
Boxing punches are the best. That's all there is to it. They translate to all styles. I've been taught the punches of many different styles and the best thing I can say about any of them is that they're less refined versions of boxing punches.
Nobody said anything but boxing is bad. It just isn't as good, and depending on the art (like TKD) it might be shit.
You wrote that my link proved that nobody but a boxer should teach boxing/punching. I made the transition to boxing based on a Kickboxers hands.. Thats how high level som of them becone when they dont train clinches/knees. He bobbed and weaved like a pure boxer and was so dynamic i figured if hes that good, how good aren't boxers..
You made the transition from foot tag to boxing based on what a kickboxer (who comes from a style with among the best hands of non-boxers) could do. That still isn't NEARLY the same as the punching and punching defense you'll experience from real boxers. You still have no clue about boxing, you're have like a day's experience with it.
I'd be curious to see... If he is a natural born talent at boxing specifically (he has a proven record in KB as a national champ) he might be better than just average guys at a boxing gym. I have sparred Muay thai guys as well and they werent even close when it comes to his boxing. They couldn't dictate anything with their hands and I countered them easily
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Holmes got up from Shavers best punch. His legs buckled against Tysons
Tyson had to hit him loads of times to put him out shavers only once, man youre dumb, its very hard to KO someone with 1 punch much easier with multiple its also harder to the side of the head than the chin Tysons was right on the button after many punches
Holmes got up from Shavers but he went unconscious in 1 go, 1 punch is all it took
I know Shavers hits harder. Nobody hits as hard.
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well the highest amount of evidence is in shavers favor every fighter that fought him said he hit the hardest bar none
not only that the ones that didnt fight shavers but fought other guys like foreman said that foreman hit hardest etc
then the ones that fought both foreman and shavers all said shavers hit harder
that increases even further the evidence indirectly because you have more people to draw from to see that it all stays consistent in shavers favor
it would be fking bizarre if they were all telling a lie
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