In one video, Vice news shows how Democrats plan to continue losing.

[Jack V Savage]

Of course nobody ever thought she would win. She only got as many votes as she did because the DNC spurred so many Sanders supporters into voting for her. You still miss the point which isn't surprising.

Is the reason you're not surprised that I "miss the point" that your words and what you apparently intended to convey were not really similar?

Out with the old that doesn't work and in with the new which is basically our only chance at this point.

I thought our only chance to get a leftward move in policy is to divide the left, say that Republicans are better than whichever faction only agrees with us 95% of the time, and refuse to vote.

Really, the far left is not an ally for those of us who wanted expanded healthcare coverage, a stronger safety net, and higher wages for the middle class. There's a better chance of peeling off the moderate right.

 

[theBLADE1]

Is the reason you're not surprised that I "miss the point" that your words and what you apparently intended to convey were not really similar?

My point was that most progressive left-leaning voters aligned with Sanders rather than Stein because of his political background and the fact that he is by far the most popular candidate in the United States right now. So you and your strawman argument about Stein and how many times she's won any election is a nonstarter altogether

I thought our only chance to get a leftward move in policy is to divide the left, say that Republicans are better than whichever faction only agrees with us 95% of the time, and refuse to vote.

Really, the far left is not an ally for those of us who wanted expanded healthcare coverage, a stronger safety net, and higher wages for the middle class. There's a better chance of peeling off the moderate right.

I don't like the term far left I prefer progressives. But if we're referring to progressives then they are indeed the only chance to expand health care coverage, build a stronger safety net, and provide higher wages for the middle class. The overall point that you're missing is moderate/corporate Democrats are the definition of ineptitude and can't get anything done that claim to fight for. That's because no one believes the actually fight for it and that is a legitimate criticism. They've done nothing but lose since 2010 and that's just facts.

And no, there is not a better chance at peeling off the moderate right and the fact that Democrats are actually seeking that vote speaks to my point. Right-leaning voters lean right. Most of those moderate Republicans either voted for Trump or Gary Johnson. They never even considered voting for Hillary Clinton. Although MANY have said they would've voted for Sanders and he proves it when he does town halls in front of Republicans/Trump voters.

 

[Jack V Savage]

I don't like the term far left I prefer progressives. But if we're referring to progressives then they are indeed the only chance to expand health care coverage, build a stronger safety net, and provide higher wages for the middle class.

Not when they continually align with people with the opposite goals. Philosophically, they might be on the same page, but politically, they're aligned with the right or even the far right.

The overall point that you're missing is moderate/corporate Democrats are the definition of ineptitude and can't get anything done that claim to fight for.

Putting aside the silly description, what about the ACA? Restoring tax progressivity to pre-Reagan levels? EITC (lifting bottom 10% incomes by a fourth)? Green energy explosion? Restoring nearly full employment way ahead of most of the rest of the developed world? These are huge accomplishments that you'd think "progressives" would like.

And no, there is not a better chance at peeling off the moderate right and the fact that Democrats are actually seeking that vote speaks to my point. Right-leaning voters lean right. Most of those moderate Republicans either voted for Trump or Gary Johnson.

Most? Sure. But Clinton got a much higher share of Kasich primary voters than Trump got of Sanders primary voters (and, interestingly, Sanders/Trump voters tend to be right-wingers). While Democrats have moved slightly left over the past quarter century, the GOP has moved far right. That does theoretically put more moderates in play. I also think you're missing that "divide the left" was the GOP's strategy. They like Bernie only because he wasn't the nominee.

 

[Jorge Luis Borges]

I still firmly believe Sanders would have won the general. He would've won all the states Hillary lost that she was supposed to win because his was a campaign of substance. She lost Ohio and Pennsylvania because people wanted their jobs back and to be secured. They didn't feel they were ever going to get that from her.

I think Bernie might have visited Wisconsin once or twice during the election rather than trying to run up the score in CA. That probably would have tipped it.

 

[Amerikuracana]

Democrats want to implement identity politics for some weird global scam, and they want to demonize particular males.. Bernie wants to institute policies that benefit a majority of Americans, that would mostly be good, that would probably need a little scaling back after he got out. Maybe not. If people have more money, they will buy more crap. Anyways, if Bernie can somehow distance himself from the fail identity politics that is ALL of the D agenda right now, HE WINS.

 

[theBLADE1]

Not when they continually align with people with the opposite goals. Philosophically, they might be on the same page, but politically, they're aligned with the right or even the far right.

BLAH BLAH next.

Putting aside the silly description, what about the ACA? Restoring tax progressivity to pre-Reagan levels? EITC (lifting bottom 10% incomes by a fourth)? Green energy explosion? Restoring nearly full employment way ahead of most of the rest of the developed world? These are huge accomplishments that you'd think "progressives" would like.

You mean all those things that are in danger of being gutted because the Democrats lost to a reality TV show star? I'm not saying Democrats and Republicans are one and the same I'm saying Democrats don't know how to win which has been illustrated the past seven years.

Most? Sure. But Clinton got a much higher share of Kasich primary voters than Trump got of Sanders primary voters (and, interestingly, Sanders/Trump voters tend to be right-wingers). While Democrats have moved slightly left over the past quarter century, the GOP has moved far right. That does theoretically put more moderates in play. I also think you're missing that "divide the left" was the GOP's strategy. They like Bernie only because he wasn't the nominee.

The fact that you actually believe Sanders voters tend to be right-wingers means that I don't have to justify you with a credible response because it doesn't deserve it. You're the one sounding more and more like a Trump supporter.

 

[bobgeese]

Bernie threatens to tear the party in half.


Then magically, out of all the crimes committed by Dems, what are the headlines?

Bernies wife is a crook.


Must be a coincidence... Dat propaganda tho

 

[theBLADE1]

Bernie threatens to tear the party in half.


Then magically, out of all the crimes committed by Dems, what are the headlines?

Bernies wife is a crook.


Must be a coincidence... Dat propaganda tho

Most of the smear tactics are what actually caused new voters to not take Sanders seriously. I don't like Donald but he isn't entirely lying when he says that the media controls the narrative a.k.a. fake news.

 

[bobgeese]

Most of the smear tactics are what actually caused new voters to not take Sanders seriously. I don't like Donald but he isn't entirely lying when he says that the media controls the narrative a.k.a. fake news.

If you think cable news is anything more than low information failed actors spouting propaganda, you're full potato.

Trump is a 100% right about fake news.


For the record, media smears had nothing to do with me knowing Bernie is full of shit. It was promising everything to everyone for free, without the slightest clue about how to pay for it.

When they asked him how he would pay for it all, it was painfully clear he never even thought about it.

He was the biggest liar in 16, and that's quite an accomplishment.

 

[theBLADE1]

For the record, media smears had nothing to do with me knowing Bernie is full of shit. It was promising everything to everyone for free, without the slightest clue about how to pay for it.

When they asked him how he would pay for it all, it was painfully clear he never even thought about it.

He was the biggest liar in 16, and that's quite an accomplishment.

FALSE

He provided multiple examples in speeches and on his website that outlined exactly how he would do so. Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton were by far the biggest liars. Anyone who doesn't know that has their head buried in the sand.

 

[bobgeese]

FALSE

He provided multiple examples in speeches and on his website that outlined exactly how he would do so. Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton were by far the biggest liars. Anyone who doesn't know that has their head buried in the sand.

Well, then he's senile as a motherf..... because when they interviewed him on tv, he couldn't provide a single answer. His proposals totaled nearly the entire US debt. Straight up fantasy land shit.



"Bernie Sanders has made a lot of expensive promises during his campaign, and a recent Wall Street Journal report indicated that these promises may not even be financially possible.

According to the numbers released by WSJ this week, Sanders’ plans would cost roughly 18 trillion dollars, a figure that is about the size of the entire national debt. This means that if these plans were enacted, it would double the current national debt, a feat that may not even be possible under today’s economic circumstances.

To fund his plans, Sanders has suggested large tax increases that would bring in $6.5 trillion over 10 years, which is still not even close to the total number needed. Over a 10 year period of implementing Sander’s proposals, the government would spend a projected $68 trillion.

The plans include a $15 trillion health program, $1.2 trillion in benefit packages, $1 trillion on roads, bridges and airports, $750 billion on schools, and billions in other expenses.


Many of these promises sound great at face value and are in line with what most people want to hear, but like most promises made by politicians, they aren’t entirely possible and they come with a heavy cost.

 

[Jack V Savage]

You mean all those things that are in danger of being gutted because the Democrats lost to a reality TV show star? I'm not saying Democrats and Republicans are one and the same I'm saying Democrats don't know how to win which has been illustrated the past seven years.

The fact that you actually believe Sanders voters tend to be right-wingers means that I don't have to justify you with a credible response because it doesn't deserve it. You're the one sounding more and more like a Trump supporter.

In both cases, you're just unaware of relevant info. Holding the WH is always bad for winning other elections. It would be nice if someone could figure a way to change that, but the fact that normal patterns hold isn't indicative of anything. Just like it would be nice if we could be warm in the winter, but the fact that it gets colder doesn't mean that the sun is burning out.

And look up polling data on Bernie/Trump voters. They are older right wingers.

 

[Rod1]

the problem with country is that greedy ____ who don't contribute their fair share, hoard all the wealth instead of allowing the noble working class, who build this country, to get what they deserve. I plan on taking everything from the greedy banker _____, and giving it to the hardworking people who make this country great. My answer to every problem is to take more shit from ______.

If you want bernies rhetoric, insert "millionaires and billionaires"
if you want hitlers rhetoric, insert "jews"
if you want soviet rhetoric, insert "bourgeoisie"

bernies message is one of hate, disguised as compassion, and its a losing one

And if you want Trumps rhetoric is foreigners.

 

[AviatorShades]

“These days, the American dream is more apt to be realized in South America, in places such as Ecuador, Venezuela and Argentina, where incomes are actually more equal today than they are in the land of Horatio Alger.”

- Bernie Sanders, 2011

A brilliant man, a visionary.

 

[theBLADE1]

And look up polling data on Bernie/Trump voters. They are older right wingers.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/why-young-democrats-love-bernie-sanders/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ton-combined-by-a-lot/?utm_term=.c4a10ceca4e1

http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-clinton-sanders-age-20160419-story.html

All the data says you're full of shit. You are a proven liar and you smear what you're afraid of.

 

[VivaRevolution]

China has been a production hub for 40 years?

No, but it has had a market share that has exploded, and a shit standard of living.

 

[unimackpass]

They've got to quit doing this garbage to themselves

Now your onto something. What Obama released on us is a dog that will bite anyone, a sword that cuts both ways.

 

[splendica]

Now your onto something. What Obama released on us is a dog that will bite anyone, a sword that cuts both ways.

Agreed. Rabid to the core.

 

[cincymma79]

No, but it has had a market share that has exploded, and a shit standard of living.

Compared to where it was when they started?

 

[Jack V Savage]

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/why-young-democrats-love-bernie-sanders/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ton-combined-by-a-lot/?utm_term=.c4a10ceca4e1

http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-clinton-sanders-age-20160419-story.html

All the data says you're full of shit. You are a proven liar and you smear what you're afraid of.

Huh?

You realize we're talking about the subset of Trump/Sanders voters, right?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-clinton-the-election/?utm_term=.6f000b6c7c3d