Is American/Full Contact Kickboxing dead in the United States?

see that's the kind of disrespect, I'm talking about. AK can work, it doesn't in most of the cases. Is that bad? No, because it wasn't build around other rulesets.

It's a style build around no lowkicks, and not many people can adapt to K1 and muay thai.

Tenshin knocking out Wanchalong with a spinning back kick, doesn't mean every thai camp is drilling spinning back kicks ever since, because for the most fighters it doesn't make sense and working on basic but incredible refined techniques has been shown to be the norm. Be it kickboxing or boxing. In fact most K1 Champs ( Takeru, Noiri, Koya ) right now come from a Karate background with a wide array of kicks, and most fight a fairly "basic style" that has been adapted to be effective under K1 rules.

I like AK, but you are talking disillusioned nonsense straight from the 80's coming from a full contact standpoint.



since you can't actually form an argument because you don't watch the sport we're talking about here, other then fights from 40 years ago, let me help you out. Here is one of the best AK stylist in the world right now Johannes Wolf, having an impressive performance over former K1 Champ Hirotaka Urabe. enjoy.



How was that disrespectful? Muay Thai fighters are vulnerable because they don't train lots of effective techniques and have limited footwork. Is that bad? No, because it wasn't built around other rulesets. AK fighters were vulnerable because they didn't really train low kicks. That isn't disrespectful, it's reality.

Boxing is limited by nature. What you're saying would be like if a boxer only used jabs and straights "because they work so well and are so effective" and never threw fancy pants uppercuts or hooks. It just makes no sense not to use techniques that are very effective and have the additional advantage of being surprising because they aren't used much (like front kicks through the guard or hook kicks around the guard or spinning kicks).

How does a spinning back kick not make sense? It's a very effective technique. Obviously I'm not suggesting a guy should just spam spinning back kicks all the time, but they work and have a useful function. Why not use them?
 
So you're telling me if I do nothing but train my jab I'll be the greatest fighter of all time? MT guys are sitting ducks for all kinds of techniques for the simple reason that they never train them, just like AK guys were sitting ducks for leg kicks because they rarely if ever trained them.
well the supposed GOAT in MMA has nothing but a double leg takedown and a fantastic jab, maybe a superman punch.. yes, if you master some few techniques you can be one of the best in the game, while there will be many people more versatile with dozens of weapons and they will be losing to less-creative elite fighters, that's what has been happening for 30 years in full contact KB and still happens in MMA as well
 
we're spinning around in a circle. your analogies are awful and you seem to lack a general understanding of any ruleset being discussed here. have a good one.


contact http://naska.com/ if you want to find some schools in your area @shadow_priest_x.
 
contact http://naska.com/ if you want to find some schools in your area @shadow_priest_x.

I actually did look into that. Found one sport karate school that was involved with all that but it was just a SHITLOAD of kids, very few adults, and a lot goofiness like nunchucks that glow in the dark or whatever.

No thanks.

Right now I'm involved with a traditional Shotokan dojo that competes under the WKF rules. Gonna stick with that. But it WOULD be cool to branch out a bit and also do some stuff that's a little closer to kickboxing.
 
Like I said, Muay Thai took over because AK failed to adapt to low kicks. That does not prove that Muay Thai is the superior style

If one style continually struggles due to a relatively rudimentary method of attack then that means the style is considerably flawed.



The Rick Roufus fight you posted demonstrates the exact opposite: that AK is vastly superior except for its achilles heel of low kicks.

Except for the fact most Ak had poor boxing , no clinch, no knees or elbows and generally weaker kicks than MT and other kickboxing systems.
 
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Right now I'm involved with a traditional Shotokan dojo that competes under the WKF rules. Gonna stick with that. But it WOULD be cool to branch out a bit and also do some stuff that's a little closer to kickboxing.

As you're already doing Shotokan and potentially looking to branch out to something closer to Kickboxing, you could probably consider Kyokushin Karate or one of its offshoots. It's still Karate so the Japanese terminology, formality, and even some of the kihon and katas you will already be familiar with and you will train a lot of conditioning drills, pad work, full contact bare knuckle sparring and so on. I trained Shotokan in my teenage years and then transitioned to Kyokushin in my early 20's and for me Kyokushin was a good bridge from Shotokan to eventually go towards Muay Thai.

Of course you could also simply train Kickboxing or Muay Thai instead :)
 
As you're already doing Shotokan and potentially looking to branch out to something closer to Kickboxing, you could probably consider Kyokushin Karate or one of its offshoots. It's still Karate so the Japanese terminology, formality, and even some of the kihon and katas you will already be familiar with and you will train a lot of conditioning drills, pad work, full contact bare knuckle sparring and so on. I trained Shotokan in my teenage years and then transitioned to Kyokushin in my early 20's and for me Kyokushin was a good bridge from Shotokan to eventually go towards Muay Thai.

Of course you could also simply train Kickboxing or Muay Thai instead :)

I'm familiar with Kyokushin. The closest dojo is about an hour away, which is a little too far for me.

Don't really want to be involved with MT frankly, and that's the only kind of kickboxing instruction to be found near where I live.

Truth is, I'm just a real mark for karate. One reason why I liked the AK scene was because it came directly from the American karate scene in the 70s and took karate to the next level in terms of competition at that time.
 
I have the same problem here in the U.K.

Muay Thai is alot more Popular. There are a few WAKO/Karate Kickboxing gyms but they are not as well funded or organised. I have partcipated in a few WAKO Kickboxing events and they are mismanaged and poor at best. England is Football mad and gives its funding to Boxing more than anything.

Even the IOC (Olympics) doesn't commision Kickboxing because its governing body such as WAKO are poorly managed

Best thing to do is become alot more active on social media regarding Karate/Kickboxing. It will hopefully find a resurgence in the next decade. Fighters like MVP, Raymond Daniels, WonderBoy, Uriah Hall and Galore Bofando are doing there bit. Rest of us have to do our bit.
 
What is the difference between dutch and japanese kickboxing?

Benny urquidez fought some japanese kickboxers who used low kicks in the 70s and won.

But sports evolve. K1 rules makes better fights and fighters.
 
If the instruction is good it's not that far away tbh, once a week could be better than nothing.

I live downtown in a city with solid public transportation infrastructure so I don't have a car. Getting an hour away regularly for a martial arts class would be pretty difficult.

Just as importantly though is that I am pretty focused on my Shotokan studies right now and don't really have the time to try to learn two styles at once.


I fucked with it for a brief time and it's just not that interesting to me.

It's an effective fighting art obviously, but for me, martial arts is about more than just combat effectiveness. It's also about the history, the philosophy and the artistry of whatever style you are studying. The history, philosophy and artistry of MT just isn't all that interesting to me.

As you undoubtedly know, the -Do in Karate-Do is about approaching Karate not just as a fighting system but as a way of life. That's the path I am on, trying to learn the Shotokan system both as a fighting style but also as a method of approaching life, and even as a historical and cultural artifact.
 
It's an effective fighting art obviously, but for me, martial arts is about more than just combat effectiveness. It's also about the history, the philosophy and the artistry of whatever style you are studying. The history, philosophy and artistry of MT just isn't all that interesting to me.
Muay Thai as a sport is hundreds of years old, way older than whatever style of Karate you are learning. It's full of history and rich in culture and spiritualism.

Granted, most gyms aren't teaching much of that.
 
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Muay Thai as a sport is over 100 years old and as part of SEA culture is hundreds of years old, way older than whatever style of Karate you are learning. It's full of history and rich in culture and spiritualism.

Granted, most gyms aren't teaching much of that however.

Yeah, but what I'm saying is that I just don't find it very interesting.

Southeast Asia in general doesn't interest me. I have no real desire to visit Thailand or Burma or Vietnam, for instance. It's not a part of the world that piques my interest.

I'm much more interested in Japan and Korea and, to a lesser extent, China.

It's just a matter of personal preference.
 
TS, your analogy is poor. Boxing hooks and uppercuts are not flashy techniques like spin kicks which aree high risk investments. Kickboxers incorporated the Muay Thai kicks because they were proven to do more damage. But the old instep roundhouse is still there. And AKB is not dead!
 
How exactly are kicks/elbows/fists high risk?

They're mostly not effective enough to be used often, but timed rightly it can be very dangerous.

Thais usually use spinning strikes when they're ahead on the score cards

Edit: i meant spinning elbows/kicks*
 
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I'm drunk asf though, idk what this discussion is about
 
Chuck Norris’ pit fighting thing was great fun to watch.
 
Chuck Norris’ pit fighting thing was great fun to watch.

The WCL. Love it.

I have the first season and watched some of it just a few days ago.

The rules were specifically designed to keep the action going and, in my opinion at least, it was a lot more exciting than the standard kind of kickboxing you get today on a Glory broadcast or whatever.
 
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