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They will be humbled when they commit to the wrong move against their superior.
Highest GDP means squat when you are out tech'd. Know your role.
Is it inevitable China and the U.S. will get into a war?
- Thread starter squeezewax
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Highest GDP means squat when you are out tech'd. Know your role.
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Once again, such a compelling and informative argument you present. You're a true asset to your nation. With people like you on board I don't see how the future looks anything but roses for the US.
Actually throughout history the highest GDP nation is always the ones with the best tech.
China just overtook the US in terms of the volume of scientific papers published.
https://www.sciencealert.com/china-...t-first-time-published-researchers on youtube
They are also leaders in the fields of AI and renewable energy and are building the largest trade route in history.
https://digiday.com/marketing/china-emerges-hotbed-artificial-intelligence/
https://www.theguardian.com/environ...lead-in-renewables-as-us-retreats-report-says
But I'm guessing your talking about violence/savagery, ie military capability.
Even still, yes the US has superior military but a land invasion of China would be like Vietnam x1000. China has ICBMs that can hit the continental US and undetectable Subs that could launch off the US coast.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ercise-leaving-military-chiefs-red-faced.html
American military chiefs have been left dumbstruck by an undetected Chinese submarine popping up at the heart of a recent Pacific exercise and close to the vast U.S.S. Kitty Hawk - a 1,000ft supercarrier with 4,500 personnel on board.
By the time it surfaced the 160ft Song Class diesel-electric attack submarine is understood to have sailed within viable range for launching torpedoes or missiles at the carrier.
According to senior Nato officials the incident caused consternation in the U.S. Navy.
The Americans had no idea China's fast-growing submarine fleet had reached such a level of sophistication, or that it posed such a threat.
One Nato figure said the effect was "as big a shock as the Russians launching Sputnik" - a reference to the Soviet Union's first orbiting satellite in 1957 which marked the start of the space age.
The incident, which took place in the ocean between southern Japan and Taiwan, is a major embarrassment for the Pentagon.
Scroll down for more ...
The lone Chinese vessel slipped past at least a dozen other American warships which were supposed to protect the carrier from hostile aircraft or submarines.
And the rest of the costly defensive screen, which usually includes at least two U.S. submarines, was also apparently unable to detect it.
According to the Nato source, the encounter has forced a serious re-think of American and Nato naval strategy as commanders reconsider the level of threat from potentially hostile Chinese submarines.
It also led to tense diplomatic exchanges, with shaken American diplomats demanding to know why the submarine was "shadowing" the U.S. fleet while Beijing pleaded ignorance and dismissed the affair as coincidence.
Analysts believe Beijing was sending a message to America and the West demonstrating its rapidly-growing military capability to threaten foreign powers which try to interfere in its "backyard".
The People's Liberation Army Navy's submarine fleet includes at least two nuclear-missile launching vessels.
Its 13 Song Class submarines are extremely quiet and difficult to detect when running on electric motors.
Commodore Stephen Saunders, editor of Jane's Fighting Ships, and a former Royal Navy anti-submarine specialist, said the U.S. had paid relatively little attention to this form of warfare since the end of the Cold War.
He said: "It was certainly a wake-up call for the Americans.
"It would tie in with what we see the Chinese trying to do, which appears to be to deter the Americans from interfering or operating in their backyard, particularly in relation to Taiwan."
In January China carried a successful missile test, shooting down a satellite in orbit for the first time.
This was in 2006 btw, obviously not covered by western mainstream media. So how again are you going to humble them? Just by being Awesomer?
Last edited:
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Two biggest bullies on the block always fight. I think it will be Russia/China vs USA, Canada, and Euro Allies. SA and Oz, and India will sit it out and take over once the others are done with each other.
Before the war happens though, of course the Chinese will catch up to USA in Defense Tech. They will work with the Russians and build a real fleet. Then it will be a real war. Devastation on both sides. Many people will die.
Before the war happens though, of course the Chinese will catch up to USA in Defense Tech. They will work with the Russians and build a real fleet. Then it will be a real war. Devastation on both sides. Many people will die.
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Once again, such a compelling and informative argument you present. You're a true asset to your nation. With people like you on board I don't see how the future looks anything but roses for the US.
Actually throughout history the highest GDP nation is always the ones with the best tech.
China just overtook the US in terms of the volume of scientific papers published.
https://www.sciencealert.com/china-...t-first-time-published-researchers on youtube
They are also leaders in the fields of AI and renewable energy and are building the largest trade route in history.
https://digiday.com/marketing/china-emerges-hotbed-artificial-intelligence/
https://www.theguardian.com/environ...lead-in-renewables-as-us-retreats-report-says
But I'm guessing your talking about violence/savagery, ie military capability.
Even still, yes the US has superior military but a land invasion of China would be like Vietnam x1000. China has ICBMs that can hit the continental US and undetectable Subs that could launch off the US coast.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ercise-leaving-military-chiefs-red-faced.html
American military chiefs have been left dumbstruck by an undetected Chinese submarine popping up at the heart of a recent Pacific exercise and close to the vast U.S.S. Kitty Hawk - a 1,000ft supercarrier with 4,500 personnel on board.
By the time it surfaced the 160ft Song Class diesel-electric attack submarine is understood to have sailed within viable range for launching torpedoes or missiles at the carrier.
According to senior Nato officials the incident caused consternation in the U.S. Navy.
The Americans had no idea China's fast-growing submarine fleet had reached such a level of sophistication, or that it posed such a threat.
One Nato figure said the effect was "as big a shock as the Russians launching Sputnik" - a reference to the Soviet Union's first orbiting satellite in 1957 which marked the start of the space age.
The incident, which took place in the ocean between southern Japan and Taiwan, is a major embarrassment for the Pentagon.
Scroll down for more ...
The lone Chinese vessel slipped past at least a dozen other American warships which were supposed to protect the carrier from hostile aircraft or submarines.
And the rest of the costly defensive screen, which usually includes at least two U.S. submarines, was also apparently unable to detect it.
According to the Nato source, the encounter has forced a serious re-think of American and Nato naval strategy as commanders reconsider the level of threat from potentially hostile Chinese submarines.
It also led to tense diplomatic exchanges, with shaken American diplomats demanding to know why the submarine was "shadowing" the U.S. fleet while Beijing pleaded ignorance and dismissed the affair as coincidence.
Analysts believe Beijing was sending a message to America and the West demonstrating its rapidly-growing military capability to threaten foreign powers which try to interfere in its "backyard".
The People's Liberation Army Navy's submarine fleet includes at least two nuclear-missile launching vessels.
Its 13 Song Class submarines are extremely quiet and difficult to detect when running on electric motors.
Commodore Stephen Saunders, editor of Jane's Fighting Ships, and a former Royal Navy anti-submarine specialist, said the U.S. had paid relatively little attention to this form of warfare since the end of the Cold War.
He said: "It was certainly a wake-up call for the Americans.
"It would tie in with what we see the Chinese trying to do, which appears to be to deter the Americans from interfering or operating in their backyard, particularly in relation to Taiwan."
In January China carried a successful missile test, shooting down a satellite in orbit for the first time.
This was in 2006 btw, obviously not covered by western mainstream media. So how again are you going to humble them? Just by being Awesomer?
Don't need a land invasion. Completely decimate the coastline, destroy that pitiful Navy (sorry bub, your Navy is pitiful compared to ours I don't care exactly that China surprised us one time by getting close, lold good at 1 aircraft carrier) and keep China boxed in on land with India gladly obliging.
Good effort with yourself though, it's good you are nationalistic to your country, however, the technology is just not there yet for China. Our forward bases and Navy would make life hell for China, should China actually try and nut up vs it's superior. We're talking decades of barrages that would completely whittle that precious GDP down to Pakistan levels. Would China fair better than say 10 years ago? Yes, but overall, the Chinese are not people of innovations, they are people of stealing technology and emulating. They will always be behind.
I can post pictures too.
http://armedforces.eu/compare/country_USA_vs_China
Coukd givw them opium again, worked last time.
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People can be in denial all they want in the face of the mountain of data, reports and articles published, can ignore our own NSF director flat out saying the PRC is closing in to loosen America's grip over global S&T leadership but it's demonstrably happening nonetheless, far more abruptly than anyone anticipated and one of the big advantages they operate on is the comparative lack of regulatory obstacles and ethical practices. There is no one within the scientific community underestimating China or what they're up to. The challenge is with our government and the wider public.
On the contrary, the US has stagnated with inconsistent funding and there's still big issues in China with academic fraud and misuse of research grants despite a heavy crackdown effort under Xi; scientists there are also fixated with numerical output. The PRC could take the lead in both R&D expenditure and total output whilst actually remaining behind the US in high-impact quality. The Nature Index (12-month rolling window) paints a bit of different picture and is based only on the biggest HIJ's with the largest citation factors.
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Perfect Example (from MIT Technology Review):
CRISPR-Cas9 is a technology developed in the United States.
My bio-chem professor is disgusted with it. Not China, the stateside regulations. It's a fact that it's a detriment in the competitive race for new knowledge but responsibility shouldn't be completely eschewed. It isn't so much that they're actually 'ahead' in various areas, there's just so few oversights and regulations, "Genethics" is thrown completely out of the window whereas here it's a major pain in the ass to even get a permit to transform a phage.
CRISPR-Cas9 is a technology developed in the United States.
My bio-chem professor is disgusted with it. Not China, the stateside regulations. It's a fact that it's a detriment in the competitive race for new knowledge but responsibility shouldn't be completely eschewed. It isn't so much that they're actually 'ahead' in various areas, there's just so few oversights and regulations, "Genethics" is thrown completely out of the window whereas here it's a major pain in the ass to even get a permit to transform a phage.
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Don't need a land invasion. Completely decimate the coastline, destroy that pitiful Navy (sorry bub, your Navy is pitiful compared to ours I don't care exactly that China surprised us one time by getting close, lold good at 1 aircraft carrier) and keep China boxed in on land with India gladly obliging.
Good effort with yourself though, it's good you are nationalistic to your country, however, the technology is just not there yet for China. Our forward bases and Navy would make life hell for China, should China actually try and nut up vs it's superior. We're talking decades of barrages that would completely whittle that precious GDP down to Pakistan levels. Would China fair better than say 10 years ago? Yes, but overall, the Chinese are not people of innovations, they are people of stealing technology and emulating. They will always be behind.
I can post pictures too.
http://armedforces.eu/compare/country_USA_vs_China
Also interesting to see the F-22 return to prominence after being canceled in 2008 on the assumption that high-end state conflicts were a thing of the past. Somewhat hilariously, it's still levels above anything that's even in development stage around the world and there's a reason it's banned from export, even to America's closest allies. Israel, Japan, Australia in particular have clamored for the sale of them for years.
Just as I say that, this report surfaces today.
(Reuters) - U.S. defense contractor Lockheed Martin Corp plans to offer Japan a stealth fighter design based on its export-banned F-22 Raptor and advanced F-35 Lightning II aircraft, two sources said.
Lockheed has discussed the idea with Japanese defense ministry officials and will make a formal proposal in response to a Japanese request for information (RFI) after it receives permission from the U.S. government to offer the sensitive military technology, said the sources, who have direct knowledge of the proposal.
The decision on whether to release parts of the highly classified aircraft designs and software to help Japan stay ahead of Chinese advances will test President Donald Trump's promise to overhaul his country's arms export policy.
No Fear No S-400.
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Don't need a land invasion. Completely decimate the coastline, destroy that pitiful Navy (sorry bub, your Navy is pitiful compared to ours I don't care exactly that China surprised us one time by getting close, lold good at 1 aircraft carrier) and keep China boxed in on land with India gladly obliging.
Good effort with yourself though, it's good you are nationalistic to your country, however, the technology is just not there yet for China. Our forward bases and Navy would make life hell for China, should China actually try and nut up vs it's superior. We're talking decades of barrages that would completely whittle that precious GDP down to Pakistan levels. Would China fair better than say 10 years ago? Yes, but overall, the Chinese are not people of innovations, they are people of stealing technology and emulating. They will always be behind.
I can post pictures too.
http://armedforces.eu/compare/country_USA_vs_China
I think Tamudjin is not PRC citizen anymore I think Australian or American of Mongol lineage
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He's an interesting poster, I kind of get the sense this subject is a little emotive and that he's extremely put off by arrogant westerners. I can assure you that nobody who actually intellectually makes it happen in America and carries the weight of the masses is getting cut down by their own hubris. China is squarely on the radar.
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In the short term, excepting monumental global economic shifts, no.
China and the US have economies that are almost totally dependent on each other for a large portion of their success. Nobody's fucking with that. Both China and the US would take almost any action before actual serious and sustained combat.
I suppose one could count on a small possibility of a smaller regional war dragging both parties in, most likely of that being NK. But, notwithstanding monumental diplomatic failures, even that would be unlikely to drag the US and China into a prolonged fight. The money just isn't in it.
China and the US have economies that are almost totally dependent on each other for a large portion of their success. Nobody's fucking with that. Both China and the US would take almost any action before actual serious and sustained combat.
I suppose one could count on a small possibility of a smaller regional war dragging both parties in, most likely of that being NK. But, notwithstanding monumental diplomatic failures, even that would be unlikely to drag the US and China into a prolonged fight. The money just isn't in it.
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I can tell Mongolian lineage I was just being a smart ass with his defense of his races "supposed" upcoming superiority.
Air superiority baby. Fly, fight, win! (corny as hell but they made us say it multiple times a day in basic).
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LOL you have no idea what you're talking about. America’s well-deserved reputation as a global leader in technology innovation is the direct result of its tradition of welcoming people from other countries. Over the last century, China lost most of its top talent to America's lax immigration policy. That is no longer the case with H1B visa reform, thanks to Trump.
Qian Xuesen, or Hsue-Shen Tsien (11 December 1911 – 31 October 2009), was a Chinese engineer who contributed to aerodynamics and rocket science. Recruited from MIT, he joined Theodore von Karman's group at Caltech, including the founding of the Jet Propulsion Laboratory.[1] Later, he returned to China and made important contributions to China's missile and space program and helped lead the Chinese nuclear weapons program.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qian_Xuesen
Meet the Chinese design student accepted by seven top US universities including Harvard and MIT
Award-winning designer leaves ‘average’ academic record behind to pursue postgraduate studies at prestigious Massachusetts Institute of Technology
http://scmp.com/news/china/society/...gn-student-accepted-seven-top-us-universities
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I think he is very critical of America and the west.
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Sounds like this is China's personal problem of only allowing Chinese.
America has always been a melting pot and there are contributions from many immigrants of other countries that made it so over the years, your point?
What you think the world doesn't know that Chinas biggest innovation is counterfeiting? You must be naive and or Asian.
Edit: Lol nm just read your username.
I understand this and I would hold these gripes as well, it's human. But facts and fiction coupled by nationalistic fantasy need to be grounded into reality.
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Yea, didn't see the particular point there. There's not really an American 'ethnicity', there's a general sub-culture which is one (dominant) component of greater western civilization but we're all from and of immigrants with varying degrees of generational distance.
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Don't need a land invasion. Completely decimate the coastline, destroy that pitiful Navy (sorry bub, your Navy is pitiful compared to ours I don't care exactly that China surprised us one time by getting close, lold good at 1 aircraft carrier) and keep China boxed in on land with India gladly obliging.
Well its a good thing that American military intelligence cared much more than you did. Yeah whats the big deal? It was only a enemy sub that bypassed all detection systems and the incredibly expensive defensive screen that accompany the carriers. Sure it could have sunk a 30 billion dollar vessel with dozens of high tech aircraft, no biggie right? It could also be chilling 100km off the US coastline and launch ICBMS, but thats nothing that the US military should care about right? You ever consider a career in military intelligence?
You're obviously unaware of the implications of undetectable submarines and modern missle tech and how they make Aircraft carriers potentially obsolete. Could be why the US has decommisioned 10 carriers in the last decade, but lets not pay attention to that. a 10 million dollar missile sinking a 30 billion dollar carrier, I'd take that trade anytime.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...ica-s-aircraft-carriers-could-become-obsolete
Good effort with yourself though, it's good you are nationalistic to your country, however, the technology is just not there yet for China. Our forward bases and Navy would make life hell for China, should China actually try and nut up vs it's superior. We're talking decades of barrages that would completely whittle that precious GDP down to Pakistan levels. Would China fair better than say 10 years ago? Yes, but overall, the Chinese are not people of innovations, they are people of stealing technology and emulating. They will always be behind.
I can post pictures too.
http://armedforces.eu/compare/country_USA_vs_China
They don't need to 'nut up', they just need to play the waiting game which is what they would do unless provoked. Throughout their history they've actually been one of the most innovative civilizations, its just the last 300 years or so they've stagnated. But they're on the upward trend again, which I've detailed here with evidence and links, as did V-2.
Promoting willfull ignorance and idiocracy is a disservice to your nation and lowers the collective intelligence and capabillity of the population. A true patriot understands the threat, a true patriot educates himself on the topic.
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I really hope not. It's not good for anyone IMO. I also think that China in it's current form is headed for an implosion based on demographics and local debt. I don't see how they push growth fast enough to get rich before they get old.
