is Krav Maga really effective

[Damedi07]

Have you seen the training sessions? The training obviously doesn't prepare you to face a real life situation, simply because there is hardly any resistance from your sparring partners. They let you perform these krav maga tactics on them. In a real street fight, there will be wild, fast punches from every direction and stumbling around and the krav maga guy simply won't have the experience to fight a real opponent who IS resisting and IS actually trying to knock the shit out of you. They aren't ready for a full contact match up.

In addition, if a boxer can obliterate a krav maga guy, then technically he would easily obliterate the street thug, correct? Therefore, boxing is a much better form of self defense for a street scenario.


Furthermore, I think the people that train in krav are just lazy and don't wan to train in a real sport. Because lets face it, boxing/bjj training isn't easy. S&C, endurance, etc. are vital in these sports and aren't easy things to accomplish. Also, in a competitive sports like boxing or bjj, you have to face other trained opponents which will be difficult and you risk getting hurt.

But in krav, you don't have to do all that hard training because the entire time you tell yourself, "oh well the people i'll be fighting won't be trained anyways, so i'll easily take them on". Krav maga is great because your training partner isn't resisting and they easily let you perform all these submissions. Makes you feel powerful.

This video says it all.



Keep a look out for 00:15 seconds in, where he hits the guy with a rolled up magazine. Shit is deadly for sure.

The point is, what is shown in this video isn't realistic. Much like aikido. Not full contact.

this video made me want to register. i really hope these aren't the types of techniques they are really teaching in krav maga. the knife defenses are dangerous. i did some kenpo jiu-jitsu a few years back and we used to practice some knife and club defenses and even though i am not foolhardy enough to believe that i can take on any knife wielding thugs i do know one thing......the first thing you would want to do is control and them immediately disarm. these techniques are just showing a short burst into the knife arm and then attacking. who in their right mind would teach to attack someone who still had a knife in their hands? disarming is like an afterthought in these scenarios and there is virtualy no controlling of the weapon. if these are the techniques they are teaching people then people are going to get the shit stabbed out of them trying this crap. no armed thug is going to just come at you with some wild crap and then just give up when you hit his arm. teaching people crap like this and giving them a false sense of security could be dangerous.

 

[Big Nasty Edison]

I get what TS is saying. Krav Maga isn't for sport, it's for real survival. That being said, I think it's impossible without killing your training partners to really "drill" alot of the techniques. How can I realistically train gouging my partners eyes out? Have him where goggles? Then I'll never get used to the nasty sick feeling of feeling a mans eyes pop.

Basically I'm saying can you drill it enough outside of a combat zone to make the moves instinctual? That's why the people who originated it and are great at it are from the Israeli army and other armed forces. They actually HAVE to use it when it counts.

 

[Seb Shaw]

How can I realistically train gouging my partners eyes out? Have him where goggles? Then I'll never get used to the nasty sick feeling of feeling a mans eyes pop.

I doubt the Israeli army guys gouge anyone's eyes out on a regular basis. It's one of those things that you'll do in training by for example pressing your thumbs down into the guy's forehead instead of his eyes or on an opponent wearing a projective mask. If a day comes when you're being attacked and choked for real, your survival instincts will give you the motivation to actually put your fingers in his eyes.

 

[Damedi07]

I doubt the Israeli army guys gouge anyone's eyes out on a regular basis. It's one of those things that you'll do in training by for example pressing your thumbs down into the guy's forehead instead of his eyes or on an opponent wearing a projective mask. If a day comes when you're being attacked and choked for real, your survival instincts will give you the motivation to actually put your fingers in his eyes.

this. people take krav maga it seems and think they have become some one man army. like they have somehow become venerable killing machines. some krav maga is probably better than no training at all, but honestly.....any trained fighter knows damn well they can collapse someone's wind-pipe, kick or knee you in the groin, gouge your eyes out....etc. i highly doubt anyone really thinks pulling guard in a street fight is a great idea. but if you are fighting someone and the fight ends up on the ground the guy who has grappling training is going to end the fight pretty quickly. i'd much rather be a techincally trained striker/grappler rather than being trained poorly trained when trying to defend myself.

 

[Bay Area]

The difference between combat sports and defense systems are this: In sports, you are trained over and over to strike legal targets. In krav maga and the like, you are trained over and over to strike illegal targets. As soon as you are pressured, you will attack the throat, groin etc. Your mind just naturally reacts after years and years of repitition on BOB.

Anyone who cant see the value in this is a retard.

 

[Damedi07]

The difference between combat sports and defense systems are this: In sports, you are trained over and over to strike legal targets. In krav maga and the like, you are trained over and over to strike illegal targets. As soon as you are pressured, you will attack the throat, groin etc. Your mind just naturally reacts after years and years of repitition on BOB.

Anyone who cant see the value in this is a retard.

value is there in that it's better than nothing. but "training" against people who aren't really resisiting isn't exactly the best training. and it's not like you can really train hard in these types of things. you can't spend a sparring session going all out on someones nutsack or throat.

 

[JerkWeed]

and every time I got him down he said "if this were real I would go for your eyes or ...."

That is worth thinking about but in submission grappling sports you tend to have your pelvis glued to your opponent and it's not easy to get a grab at the jewels.

If you are attacking their arms how will they grab anything?

If you are choking them your eyes can often be tucked behind an arm or shoulder.

If you are leg locking them your eyes are out of reach and their own leg is protecting your groin.

 

[Damedi07]

That is worth thinking about but in submission grappling sports you tend to have your pelvis glued to your opponent and it's not easy to get a grab at the jewels.

If you are attacking their arms how will they grab anything?

If you are choking them your eyes can often be tucked behind an arm or shoulder.

If you are leg locking them your eyes are out of reach and their own leg is protecting your groin.

idk if i would rely on that in a street fight. the possibility of him getting your eyes is definitely there. i'd rather stay on my feet if i could. but you still need to know how to fight on the ground if it goes there. you can break someones arm pretty easily with an armbar or keylock. i think the whole "this is for sport so it's not gonna be useful on the street" argument is severely flawed.

 

[airman20012001]

I was watching a human weapon episode were they traveled to israel to check out israel combat.
One of the guys on th show had a bjj background, and when ever they would get in a comabat situation he would clinch up and go to the ground.
well I pisse the instructor would get pissed
because once your on the ground your a target, for anyone else that wanted to get a shot in and you cant escape laying on the ground

and I agree stay off the ground

 

[Big Nasty Edison]

I was watching a human weapon episode were they traveled to israel to check out israel combat.
One of the guys on th show had a bjj background, and when ever they would get in a comabat situation he would clinch up and go to the ground.
well I pisse the instructor would get pissed
because once your on the ground your a target, for anyone else that wanted to get a shot in and you cant escape laying on the ground

and I agree stay off the ground

I think it was on that same episode that the instructor had a rubber knife and Jason Chambers had to avoid getting stabbed in the light sparring. He clinched up with the guy and got stabbed like a 234234234 times.

 

[sukotsuto]

That is worth thinking about but in submission grappling sports you tend to have your pelvis glued to your opponent and it's not easy to get a grab at the jewels.

If you are attacking their arms how will they grab anything?

If you are choking them your eyes can often be tucked behind an arm or shoulder.

If you are leg locking them your eyes are out of reach and their own leg is protecting your groin.

This was the exact same point I've been making. Besides, "if it were real life", I'd do the same thing (groin grab, eye gouge), the only difference is, I'm in a better position to do it if I'm on top in a side mount or mount. If someone shoots an eye gouge, a trained fighter wouldn't care if it's an eye poke, a punch, or a palm strike, if the fighter senses it coming, the fighter will bob and weave, and even counter the attempt with a left hook to the face.

Another thing people don't seem to take into account is that if you hit someone in the balls or eyes, not everyone would go down immediately. There's a chance that it will mess them up and leave you alone... but there's also a chance that it will make them even more pissed, fight off the pain, and would go at you more aggressively, maybe a bit more cautious than that person's initial attack on you, now that the assailant knows you're going to play dirty (and might do the same thing)

I know that when some dude went for my nuts during sparring. I flinched for a second, but it pissed me off twice as much, and I ended up going at the dude a lot harder than I usually would.

 

[Damedi07]

This was the exact same point I've been making. Besides, "if it were real life", I'd do the same thing (groin grab, eye gouge), the only difference is, I'm in a better position to do it if I'm on top in a side mount or mount. If someone shoots an eye gouge, a trained fighter wouldn't care if it's an eye poke, a punch, or a palm strike, if the fighter senses it coming, the fighter will bob and weave, and even counter the attempt with a left hook to the face.

Another thing people don't seem to take into account is that if you hit someone in the balls or eyes, not everyone would go down immediately. There's a chance that it will mess them up and leave you alone... but there's also a chance that it will make them even more pissed, fight off the pain, and would go at you more aggressively, maybe a bit more cautious than that person's initial attack on you, now that the assailant knows you're going to play dirty (and might do the same thing)

I know that when some dude went for my nuts during sparring. I flinched for a second, but it pissed me off twice as much, and I ended up going at the dude a lot harder than I usually would.

there's also the fact that no one is gonna stand there, legs spread open and just let you blast them in the balls as hard as you can. most of, if not all of the krav maga videos i've seen show techniques used against, at least, semi-compliant uke's. let's face it...i'd say there is a good portion of times where someone who is starting a fight with you is confident enough to do it. yeah sometimes it's just some juiced up meathead with no fight training but a head full of roid rage. for some reason people a decent number of people who lift weights somehow also think it makes them pro fighters. but sometimes it will be someone who had trained in sme sort of combat art and uses it to be a punk. you are better off learning a good mixe dmartial art style and also incorporating some self defense and/or weapon training that teaches disarms just in case.

 

[airman20012001]

I think it was on that same episode that the instructor had a rubber knife and Jason Chambers had to avoid getting stabbed in the light sparring. He clinched up with the guy and got stabbed like a 234234234 times.

lol, right,
Self defence in my opinion should be about distance, and what you have to do to achieve that distance. Smash balls, rip out eyes, whatever. I dont want to be on the ground rollin around open to any kind of attack. I want distance

 

[DonS**]

lol. Pretty good escape when i think about.
I don't do BJJ but would it be possible to get out of every BJJ hold with some sort of dirty move like that? Eyes, nuts, windpipe and so forth?
I like the fact they only really teach one kick (nut bound) as i've done Muay Thai and in a fight i dont think i'd even think to kick there.

I'm unsure about it also, but i can't argue with the effectiveness of the above technique even if you can't spar it.

Early UFC only banned eye gouges and biting. And biting (cheating) failed against BJJ in UFC 1.

 

[tstriker]

Where did you get the impression that there is only 1 kick taught in KM?

From what I've seen there are dozens of different kicking techniques including the trusty groin, round kick, front kick, stomp kick, back kick, back kick with a spin, heel kick, spinning heel kick, slap kick, axe kick, side kick, advancing side kick - and that's just off the top of my head.

Here's a book on the KMWW curriculum

Or checkout the curriculum for each level here

 

[tstriker]

And for the record. I think the best readiness for street level situations include Krav Maga, Muay Thai, JKD, BJJ, Judo and FMA. Krav endeavors to take aspects of each of these systems and simplify them while maintaining effectiveness. But for the most part it is about simultaneously countering an attack with overwhelming violence. I am no expert - and I mean that. For me I'm trying to learn 4 of these right now and seeing what works for me, my mentality, my physical abilities, and my ability to assess a situation and determine a response. I don't want to fight anyone. But if a gun or knife is held against myself or a loved one - I have choices. If some idiot gets out of line in a public place - I have choices. If Uncle Joe get out of control at Thanksgiving Dinner - I have choices - maybe some BJJ or FJA joint locks can de-escalate the situation.

 

[mma purist]

I think they know some BJJ moves like RNC, but Krav teaches nothing about groundwork. My friend and I were sparing once, and every time I got him down he said "if this were real I would go for your eyes or ....".
?

i've heard that one before too... i wish they would realize that if they go for my balls with a rnc or bite my leg if i do an armbar etc. i am just going to apply the submission with pure force or alter the rnc to a neck crank and let that shit pop a few times.

 

[Midnighter]

i've heard that one before too... i wish they would realize that if they go for my balls with a rnc or bite my leg if i do an armbar etc. i am just going to apply the submission with pure force or alter the rnc to a neck crank and let that shit pop a few times.

You may break my neck, but your balls are mine.

no homo

 

[tstriker]

i've heard that one before too... i wish they would realize that if they go for my balls with a rnc or bite my leg if i do an armbar etc. i am just going to apply the submission with pure force or alter the rnc to a neck crank and let that shit pop a few times.

Ah, might want to check the link I posted about the curriculum before thinking that as a system they don't address ground work. How long did you friend study KM and what level did he reach? Cross check that w/the actual details in the curriculum.

 

[pheonix5]

I come from the idea that take whatever art you know well and apply the illegal things.From boxing instead of a jab do a jab with fingers to the eyes,nut kicks from any stand up art,eye gouges,knees to the nuts and headbutts from clinch and nut grabs,headbutts and even biting from grappling arts.