Is the armdrag useless as a takedown in mma/self-defense?

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by Smorra, Sep 2, 2005.

  1. Smorra Blue Belt

    Smorra
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    Is arm-drag, as a takedown (setup), and way of getting-the-back while standing, a flawed artifact of pure grappling that won't work in real fight or mma fight? When standing in a pure grappling match, people very often keep at least one arm down, to defend their legs against takedowns- this creates the opening to do the arm drag. In a real, or mma fight, people tend to keep their hands up to at least some degree. Rarely (never) in a fight, do you see someone hunched over with their arm in front of their lead leg to defend it, as is often the case in pure (especially no-gi) grappling.
       I imagine that you turn could turn your wrist over and grab the wrist of the arm you're going to drag with your thumb pointing down. This still ties up both of your hands, leaving your head momentarily undefended and his other arm free to punch you. Directly reaching between his arms and cupping his bicep/tricep to drag it would only take one arm, but he may be able to hit you with the arm you're trying to drag, as well as his other, free arm.
       Once my neck heals I plan on trying this in light mma sparring, but I wonder if it might just not be a good idea to do armdrags from standing when the other person can strike. Has anyone successfully used an alternate grip for the arm drag that worked when the opponent had his hands up, and while you had defend his punches?
     
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  2. Balto Silver Belt

    Balto
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    I've actually found the armdrag to be very useful in MMA.

    Assume both you and your opponent have a standard left lead boxing stance. Your opponent throws a straight right cross that is a little too wild and off balancing. You can step forward/diagonal at roughly 45 degrees with your lead left foot. You use your hands to do basically an arm drag motion to secure his arm as you step around to his back.

    You are pretty safe from strikes because you have his right arm immobilized. He can't knee you from the side/back and you are too close to side kick. You are also as far away as possible from his left arm so you are safe from punches and elbows.

    After you secure the arm and step around, you are in a great position to finish with a takedown. You can simply just drop your hips down and take the rear mount. If you have good upper body takedowns, you can finish with some sort of suplex or slam.
     
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  3. You can armdrag from the clinch and leap around to his back. You got to be quick and flexable though.
     
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  4. Corbin Dallas Orange Belt

    Corbin Dallas
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    We were drilling the arm drag earlier this week, but we were dropping down for a single or double leg instead of taking the back. Take downs from the clinch are the coolest!
     
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  5. GCSD Fighter <img src="http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/4034/

    GCSD Fighter
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    Best use of armdrag is when you want to trap opponent. Better in street, less likely to roll out.

    I find it useful to setup dirty striking and disarm knives. But these are using variations of the armdrag technique to stay safe.
     
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  6. flyingknee16 Brown Belt

    flyingknee16
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    When we do boxing at my MMA place, we also work on dodging punches and pushing them out of the way like an armdrag in order to secure the body clinch or take the back. So, it does have application in MMA, you just might have to adapt it a little bit.
     
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  7. satchmo The Champ

    satchmo
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    The armdrag is a fantastic setup. You can use to set up a body lock, double/single leg, a variety of trips, or go behind your opponent. The only thing is it has to be set up well to work. It is most effective if your opponent is pushing in to you.
     
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  8. EddNg Blue Belt

    EddNg
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    I used to feel the same way but I've used the arm drag a fair bit lately while sparring MMA. I tend to use the arm drag as a set up to an inside trip or a single leg
     
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  9. vigilante90210 Blue Belt

    vigilante90210
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    armdrag works fine and it only ties up one of your hands at a time, i use it for setting up takedowns as well as strikes by creating an angle and then throwing punches, also can work if your up against the ropes or cage and you want to move out, cover up and then drag out.
     
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  10. serima Green Belt

    serima
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    Armdrag is werry good in street fight, not sure of MMA
     
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  11. grecoguy43 Blue Belt

    grecoguy43
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    try to use armdrags to get your op's back.. i did that in folkstyle, greco and when i train mma. don't go to the ground with it, you have a whole new world of opportunities.
     
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  12. Smorra Blue Belt

    Smorra
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    Good idea. I hadn't thought of that, because I was trying to initiate it without him having to do anything first. I still would like to find a way to do that without depending on him throwing a wild punch.
    Also a good idea. I've actually done that before, but only in pure grappling. Again, it didn't occur to me to do it in mma because I was trying to do the arm drag directly, while in striking range.
    &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Has anyone had any success initating an armdrag from standup which didn't require first getting in a clinch, nor the other person missing and overcommitting to a punch? Even if it turns out that the armdrag requires one of these two situations to set it up in mma, that is still better news than it being useless.
     
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  13. If you can pull off an armdrag in mma without clinching, you may very well be the sexiest man alive.

    You might do an armdrag in striking range if your fighting someone who is a terrible striker, and drunk at the time. Although, a clinch to quick armdrag is useful, and Im a big guy (5'11 220) so when I jump on guys, were going down and thats that.
     
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  14. S.D.Force Blue Belt

    S.D.Force
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    arm drag could be used successfully in mma, but you would need to be a little more careful not to accidently miss the drag and land on your back. In sub grappling you could just go to guard. In mma, you might be the g and p treatment. The best way to engage an arm drag would be after pressing your opponent against the ring/cage for a while. They lightening up your push while you set up the technique, then explode into it.
     
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  15. Bobbybackpack Yellow Belt

    Bobbybackpack
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    How?
     
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  16. mataleaos Green Belt

    mataleaos
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    We don't see it as much in MMA and I've often wondered why. I was thinking it's harder to grip with the gloves but you can arm drag without needing a really strong grip. You can sort of arm drag using monkey grips if you needed to. Maybe because it's a closer range thing, and if you get that close then the benefits of a more traditional clinch game are easier for the time invested? The arm drag is one of my favorite techniques and I even use it from top mount, knee on belly, top side, and I think it's underused in MMA.
     
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  17. Edison Carasio Excellence of execution belt

    Edison Carasio
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    Arm drags is a top self defense technique imo
     
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  18. SummerStriker Black Belt

    SummerStriker
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    I'm not a good grappler but the arm drag is the main standing move I use.

    I set it up by getting an overhook on their arm and digging in to put the squeeze on their elbow. If I can lock their arm out, they will limp-arm to get out of it. That's when I hit the arm drag. I don't usually get all the way behind them, but if I can get my chest stuck behind their shoulder, I'll get a tani otoshi or something.

    And that's in MMA sparring. In MMA, it's easier to get their arm locked out because they will usually try to pull back to throw a knee or something from over/under. You can catch them then.
     
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  19. Uchi Mata Gold Belt

    Uchi Mata
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    Most of the clinching in MMA occurs up against the cage. For an armdrag to work really well, you need to be able to move past your opponent to some extent. It's pretty hard to do that if you're running into a cage. The other aspect of the cage that makes the drag rare is that people tend to lean on the cage, and it's very hard to arm drag someone who is leaning backwards. Most of the clinch fighting that occurs in open space is more Muay Thai than Greco as well (meaning you're trying to obtain a position where you can strike and not get hit rather than hit a big throw), so the context isn't there as often to hit it.

    The other thing to consider is that anytime you do an arm drag, for some period of time both your hands are occupied with his one arm while you're in easy punch/elbow range. In theory if you hit the drag right there shouldn't be any chance for your opponent to hit you, but if you don't hit it clean you're probably giving up at least one free, totally open shot.
     
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  20. Cappy Goodtime White Belt

    Cappy Goodtime
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    That guy probably hasn't thought about it in the last 12 years so I'll jump in.

    Most acts of aggression start out with a fair bit of posturing, flexing and pushing before real violence starts. It is during this stage where the arm drag excels. You can use the arm drag to neutralize a threat (bring a non-grappler into a grappling exchange) before anything serious happens.
     
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