Japan needs migrants badly | Page 7

Discussion in 'The War Room' started by freaky, Dec 5, 2017.

  1. TheGreatA Black Belt

    TheGreatA
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    You'd have to change the entire foundation of what enables the Japanese society to function, in order to make people accept immigration. Otherwise you're just setting those immigrants up for failure, to become ostracized second class citizens, and possible figureheads to assume blame for the society's failures.

    It's obviously a more complex philosophy with many varying takes on the subject, but in essence, Japan, and most Asian societies around that region, are built upon the ideal that one must humble themselves as an individual, to become a part of the greater collective. And we are obviously not talking about a collective in the loose definition of the term. We are talking about a very strictly defined collective of Japanese people, sharing a likeness in thought, appearance, objectives, that the individual feels obliged to sacrifice himself for. This social pact, and the level of trust involved, is broken the moment that the Japanese is no longer surrounded by people who share his thoughts, or appearance, or goals in life. Not that there aren't disagreements among the Japanese themselves, but there is a general agreement that everyone is playing for the same "team". Something that is impossible to duplicate with immigrants from an entirely different culture, subscribing to an entirely different system of beliefs, who look, act , and talk different from the Japanese.

    By breaking down this structure, we're essentially going against thousands of years of philosophy, culture, tradition, that has allowed the Asian societies to exist and prosper in their current form, by having hammered down the nails that stuck out. The result of such a social and moral collapse could be far worse than any negative results from an aging population (which can still be addressed within a population, by adopting the required policies, without relying on the import of populations from elsewhere).

    I don't really see any reason to "poke the bear" in an island that is already scarce of resources as it is, not to mention a prime target for a major natural disaster.
     
    #121
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2017
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  2. Kafir-kun Gold Belt

    Kafir-kun
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    Japanese culture is not some monolithic and static essence, its changed before. It changed radically with the fall of the Shogunate and it changed again with the US occupation. I think there was definitely some continuity there but also major change. Their current model is reaching its limit. They could focus on radically encouraging fertility with certain policies but as I said those policies can take some time to bear fruit. I think temporary immigration in the meantime could help. Such a shift I think would be a far less radical shift than that brought about by the Meiji era.
     
    #122
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2017
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  3. PolishHeadlock Putin Belt

    PolishHeadlock
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    They became a world power because they saw what European powers were doing in Asia and tried to duplicate then militarily, economically and as colonists.

    Before that they were and isolationist Feudal society who the US forced open for trade.

    So yeah, twice the US helped them become a world power.
     
    #123
  4. Kafir-kun Gold Belt

    Kafir-kun
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    But they weren't colonized, they negotiated their entry into the modern era on their own terms. Their biggest advantage was being on the other side of the world away from the colonizers.
     
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  5. TheGreatA Black Belt

    TheGreatA
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    There was no essential change whatsoever to the Japanese society, even after the US occupation.

    After the Meiji restoration, Japan adopted Germanic values and societal models that already resonated with their own (which Germany had proven to work in the modern world). After the US occupation, Japan directed its collective energy into production rather than warfare (after having largely been bested by America's productivity). The offices and the factories became the new war-zones where one could establish their masculinity. Leading, inevitably, to the gradual degradation of the male ideal, to the point where men from younger generations have become detached from the "masculine", as it has come to mean working like a slave, rather than being a master of one's fate.

    For Japan to become dependent on immigration to survive, would require changing the foundations, rather than using what has already existed and guiding it in a new direction, as was previously done.
     
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  6. PolishHeadlock Putin Belt

    PolishHeadlock
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    They were forced into the modern world. But yes they adapted to it quickly and carved out a spot in the world
     
    #126
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  7. Seaside Comisario de transporte Platinum planet.

    Seaside
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    which is why chinese will takeover the world. they will clone superhumans. lol

    okay they probably take over all of east and southeast asia. muslim world always be a mess, and yeah
     
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  8. Space WR GOAT

    Space
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    The problem is, Japan right now is in a similar situation to what the US was in the 1970s.

    I agree in principle, but some of their business culture will have to change. Too many middle managers and employees are afraid to say anything critical about the company or sound the alarm on malpractice (to be fair this is a pan-Asian trait and will affect China when its companies mature too).

    People living in first-world countries generally don't want to work in factories either, at least not in the numbers they used to. Thankfully, Japan still has vocational high schools and universities, (which is what the US badly needs) to keep a somewhat steady supply of tradesmen, and to stymie the number of people in debt for majoring in women's genderfluid post-colonial studies.

    Then there's the competition from China. Of course, that won't last forever; China will eventually outsource its manufacturing as well, and become the new (just bigger) Japan.
     
    #128
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2017
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  9. Pelosi2016 Blue Belt

    Pelosi2016
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    In more modern times the availability of usable land isn’t even an issue. Take the Akita prefecture for example. It has a lower population now than before WWII. Migration to the cities plus a net loss of 1 million people overall in just 5 years has caused vast amounts of previously used land to be available now.

    There are a combination of problems starting with the attraction of city life. It is well known that there is a problem of migration from rural area to the cities. The cities extreme population densities, sub-standard housing (spaceously speaking), and low wages cause separately and collectively prevent people from having more kids. A population sink effectively.

    All of the societal issues seen in the Mouse Experiment of John B. Calhoun can be observed in Japan.
     
    #129
  10. Pelosi2016 Blue Belt

    Pelosi2016
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    Here is something to consider.

    Population (total / density / % of nation)

    *State* of California:
    39 million people total
    240 people / sq mi.
    12% of total US population

    *City* of Tokyo:
    37 million people
    6,890 people / sq mi.
    29% of total Japanese population.


    Anyone see what the problem might be here????
     
    #130
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  11. RIPWarrior Black Belt

    RIPWarrior
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    I've never seen a group of people so hell bent on destroying other people and their countries in this disturbing way. At the core is pure bitterness.
     
    #131
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  12. TheGreatA Black Belt

    TheGreatA
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    I think the problem is fairly obvious, and one that isn't going to be solved by immigration, but rather, will be added to by immigration.

    The immigrants aren't going to be suddenly filling the emptying rural areas of Japan, making them prosperous. There is not a single country with lax immigration laws, where the immigrant population isn't focused on a few key city-centers. All the attempts to de-centralize immigration, have ended in failure, including in my own country. The immigrants simply move into the cities after initially being settled in the nether regions. Any attempts to prevent them from moving, are called out by humanitarian organizations, which will make PR-minded politicians quickly buckle.

    The result is that Tokyo is simply going to have a few million more citizens, who will form their own areas within the city. And that will eventually lead to resentment, especially in a culture such as Japan's. It's not built to handle the kind of tensions that exist in Europe and America.
     
    #132
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  13. kuromusha Silver Belt

    kuromusha
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    Don't you have like 10 kids?
     
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  14. Amerikuracana Titanium Belt

    Amerikuracana
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    I would be honored to have my daughters marry into Japanese families. My sons as well. They are polite by today's standards, and good people.
     
    #134
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  15. therealdope Steel Belt

    therealdope
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    I don't think this is funny at all. Mass immigration is now all about supporting the social security ponzi scheme. The idea of 'labor force' is ludicrous in a technologically advanced age and country.
     
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  16. CauseImbetta Yellow Card

    CauseImbetta
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    Illiterate Somalis and Bengalis. The cream of the crop.
     
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  17. Scheme Brown Belt

    Scheme
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    No it isn't, mass immigration is simply the Cloward-Piven strategy being put into effect.

    Responsible immigration = good, mass immigration = bad
     
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  18. CauseImbetta Yellow Card

    CauseImbetta
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    Liberals will cry when they hear you don't want illiterate pond scum migrants turning parts of cities into ghettos like they did in Sweden. You mean man! Yada! Nande?
     
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  19. CauseImbetta Yellow Card

    CauseImbetta
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    I've been in Japan for a long time. They will never accept those people, not their mentality. Very stubborn and xenophobic. They would rather go extinct.

    Think about it. They have only been open for 70 years or so.

    The only way: government edict. Financial compensation for families. Robots.
     
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  20. CauseImbetta Yellow Card

    CauseImbetta
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    It's not overpopulated. It's sporadically populated in some regions and deserted in others.
     
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