Japan needs migrants badly | Page 9

Discussion in 'The War Room' started by freaky, Dec 5, 2017.

  1. TheGreatA Black Belt

    TheGreatA
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    I don't think they changed the core philosophy of what it means to be Japanese.

    It seems to us a radical change, because what happened was comparable to the unification and industrialization of Germany, except that the process was much more rapid. By 1894, Japan already showed its power against the Chinese, even though in the 1860's they were relatively backwards, comparable to a medieval feudal European kingdom in their structure.

    But I think it would be fair to say that the essential principles for Germanic peoples remained the same from what they had been centuries ago, and the same could be said for the Japanese. Nationalism was only truly effective in uniting folk that shared a common cultural, philosophical, linguistic tradition. Attempts to unify people who did not share these qualities, usually ended in failure.

    For Japan to suddenly turn into modern-day Germany would be a bigger leap of faith. They simply don't share the same sentiments of what WW2 meant for them. Japan still retains the same philosophy towards social structure, while the Germans believed that they needed to rebuild everything from scratch (Stunde Null), including what it means to be German, which means that they've taken active measures to abandon the remnants of the thousands of years of historical, philosophical and cultural development that had brought them to this point.

    For Japan to adopt immigration as a policy, would require them to critique their social structure and cut themselves off from their history. I cannot see that happening.
     
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    Last edited: Dec 7, 2017 at 8:36 AM
  2. panamaican Senior Moderator

    panamaican
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    You mean with our concentrated effort to rebuild their economy following WWII they have managed. That same with S. Korea and the same with West Germany vs. East Germany. The countries and regions that we helped to rebuild thrived so kudos for them but they didn't just "hard work" their way to success without outside intervention.
     
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  3. Rockapotomuss Woke Based Poster

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    Japan is too small geographically to have a constantly increasing population.
     
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  4. TheGreatA Black Belt

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    They would have in either case, but America correctly deduced that "hard working" their way to success, for Germany and Japan, would've inevitably meant "borrowing" resources from other territories (without any intent of returning a damn thing in exchange to those that they possessed power over). Therefore it was altogether a better idea to establish trade relations with the two, as an entity that both Japan and Germany could respect (if for nothing else than their military might), rather than leave them to fend for themselves.

    It is simply impossible to expect the Japanese or the Germans to not remain competitive, the same way that it is impossible to expect the Americans to not be competitive. They will find a way, one way or the other. America's optimal location has benefited them in such a way that they have not necessarily needed to resort to some of the moral lows that Japan and Germany did, in order to establish their dominance over the others.
     
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  5. panamaican Senior Moderator

    panamaican
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    I think there's a lot of wishful thinking in the above. East Germany was nowhere near as competitive as West Germany prior to reunification. China took longer than Japan. N. Korea remained a shithole. Most of the rest of Asia is still below average in terms of development.

    The biggest difference between those different outcomes is the level of U.S. economic intervention and support.
     
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  6. TheGreatA Black Belt

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    East Germany was a Soviet-subjugated Marxist shithole, which was essentially constructed to starve out and emasculate the German population, so that they would no longer represent a threat to Soviet interests. West Germany was only allowed to be what it was, because the Americans, again, correctly deduced that they needed the Germans to remain strong, just not hostile against America or its allies. America wouldn't be what it is without Germany, and vice versa.

    Germany and Japan already showed that they could fend for themselves without America's support. It's just that the way in which they went on about it (conquest, brutality), put them in diametric opposition to America's interests, which meant that America needed to assert its dominance over them. Militarily, of course. Take America out of the equation and Germany dominates the European continent, while Japan dominates the Pacific. The same way that America came to dominate, well, America.

    Obviously, the Germans and the Japanese cannot build themselves into being America in the tiny pieces of resource-deprived land that they occupy. However, they certainly possessed the necessary will to build themselves into being America, and they still do. America helping them in their quest, enables them to accomplish this task without resorting to their previous means.
     
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    Last edited: Dec 7, 2017 at 9:50 AM
  7. panamaican Senior Moderator

    panamaican
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    We're going to disagree here because I'm speaking specifically about the post WW2 competitive environment. You seem to believe that following the destruction of their nations and their production capacity that they would have outcompeted all of the other regional powers who weren't similarly devastated. I don't think so.

    By the time Germany and Japan rebuilt to basic levels of productivity, most of the resources would have already been allocated between the nations on the winning side. Without the U.S. presence inside their borders they would not have had the steady supply of consumers with the disposable income to buy local products and transfer wealth from service men's paychecks into the local economies. That would have meant competing for export markets against nations with better production capabilities.

    The cost of rebuilding would have hamstrung those nations for decades.
     
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  8. TheGreatA Black Belt

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    I don't think you take into account what Germany and Japan would've turned into without American guidance. We already saw what Germany built itself into after the devastation and collapse of the first World War, in the span of a decade. And through what means.

    The German populations have lost massively before, they have had their civilizations destroyed, ravaged and pillaged by their enemies numerous times throughout history. The entire Germanic tradition, instilled in every generation prior to WW2, revolves around the theme of self-sacrificing, losing courageously and rising from the ashes, to exact revenge, if necessary.

    If America did not work to steer Germans away from this path, I do not see why history wouldn't have repeated itself, in the same manner as it had, for as long as the history of Germanic people has been documented, since the times of Roman subjugation (and subsequent fall of Rome at the hands of Germans). The Soviets, with their own brutality, would've enhanced this "revenge mentality" to manifest even further. The Soviets were only ever going to be a temporary phenomenon despite their victory in World War 2, and would've ultimately collapsed, especially without American support.

    Economic realities really mean jack-shit concerning this scenario because the Japanese and the Germans would've taken what they required, in whatever way was necessary, without paying a dime back to anyone that they took it from. They are a people of supreme intellect, productivity, not to mention that they possess (or possessed) the will of a conqueror's, as do the Americans. Any hardships encountered only encourage them to work even harder.
     
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    Last edited: Dec 7, 2017 at 10:18 AM
  9. panamaican Senior Moderator

    panamaican
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    Following the first World War, Germany's production capacity wasn't destroyed. They were hamstrung by an economic bill to the winning side, not an actual loss of capacity.

    Anyway, your statement that economic realities mean jack-shit against some mythical solution just illustrates my point that we're going to disagree. You're operating under "...it just would have happened" logic, all details to the contrary be damned. Yet, you acknowledge and simultaneously disregard to how the German mythos didn't help East Germany rise above the poor policies of the Soviets.
     
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  10. TheGreatA Black Belt

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    Their production capacity wasn't destroyed by World War 2 either. Severely damaged, for sure, but still a threat to the extent that a plan was made by the Allies to divide Germany into small pieces and destroy its entire production, until America came to its senses and started seeing the USSR as the existential threat that it was, requiring West Germany to stand as the buffer between the democratic world and the socialist regime.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morgenthau_Plan

    East Germany did not rise above the Soviets because it did not possess the power to. They were only a country of around 15 million, under a very repressive regime. The Soviets and the DDR system, could've never repressed the entire German population (of 80 million). Any attempt to do that, would've ended in failure.

    It is evident in the fact that the moment that their level of repression over the population was reduced by even a tiny bit, the whole system collapsed into a heap. The Berlin wall and Stasi kept them going a lot longer than they should've been.
     
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    Last edited: Dec 7, 2017 at 10:49 AM
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  11. woodguyatl Green Belt

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    Japan’s short term economic downturn started in 1992.
     
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  12. Possum Jenkins Cultural Marxism Belt

    Possum Jenkins
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    Our friend Seano is constantly whining about how immigrants entering the workforce drive wages down for blue-collar US-born workers. And he's always bringing up his own anecdotes of it happening.

    So they enter the labor market with so much force they change the wage system... yet somehow they "don't want to achieve, only receive"

    <mma4>
     
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  13. BassAckwards Brown Belt

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    just wait a few more years when most of the aging population dies off; japan will correct itself and reach equilibrium. they are technologiclaly advanced, hence dont have the demand for manual labor. they are already at 2.8% unemployment. adding more to their population will only add more to unemployment and be a burden to the economy.

    and lol-migrants wont fix japan's problems. if you bring in educated migrants, they will fall into the same grind as their japanese counterparts; work long hours to sustain their standard of living and wont spit out babies. bringing in uneducated migrants will add babies but be more of a drain to japanese society as they suck up resources.
     
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  14. KBE6EKCTAH_CCP Arrow sash belt with Lederhosen

    KBE6EKCTAH_CCP
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    How many times are you going to post the same thing ?

    Also, this reeks of but but Hitler, but applied to Japan. I don t care about history. Today s people don t carry any burden.
     
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  15. deltapapha Brown Belt

    deltapapha
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    if NK goes up in smoke Japan will get her migrants
     
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  16. nac386 Silver Belt

    nac386
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    I don't doubt that. But unfortunately for you, history provides the context for where we are today.
     
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  17. Cuauhtemoc Red Belt

    Cuauhtemoc
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    They have all that. People also practice sexual intercourse in Japan, believe it or not. But there's a thing called the pill.
     
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  18. oldshadow Gold Belt

    oldshadow
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    Well it seems they don't have much time for sex or kids.

    http://www.bbc.com/news/business-39981997

    My post stands.
     
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  19. Kafir-kun Gold Belt

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    The problem is you have to be a bit brutal to enforce such a system since more often than not the migrants try to abuse it and stay indefinitely, or at least a not insignificant portion of them. Germans tried such a system with the Turks but they seem to have lacked the guts and/or capacity to expel them and so they became a immigrant migrant population.
     
    #179
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  20. superpunch Red Belt

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    nm
     
    #180
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2017 at 12:41 AM

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