Judo Gene LeBell On Karl Gotch

[Rvd Slmr]

As a huge fan of Barnett and a lover of catch, I unfortunately have to correct you here. Josh has, in fact, been submitted in MMA.

The thread started in 2015, the Rothwell fight hadn't happened yet.

 

[ManWolf]

The thread started in 2015, the Rothwell fight hadn't happened yet.

My bad! Great catch!

 

[Which Doctor]

This thread is like a bat signal for danthewolfman.

As a huge fan of Barnett and a lover of catch, I unfortunately have to correct you here. Josh has, in fact, been submitted in MMA.

The thread started in 2015, the Rothwell fight hadn't happened yet.

Sandbagging whitebelts answering the wrong wolfman bat-signal. That's some BJJ shit right there. Porra; you guys need for to clean up you sportch.

 

[TriangleMonkey]

Khabib has a catch as can style imo

He pummels you with positioning and wrestling, and will snatch an oppurtunistic sub when present.

 

[KBE6EKCTAH_CCP]

I doubt that more than 5% of the posters in this shithole of a subforum have any idea who Judo Gene Lebell is.

 

[loyalyolayal]

I doubt that more than 5% of the posters in this shithole of a subforum have any idea who Judo Gene Lebell is.

The guy who sonned the "father" of MMA. Wish Bruce Lee met Carlson Gracie. We wouldn't have to hear about this bs.

 

[mkt]

Who said these were "easy leg break techniques"? Is your reasoning that if Gotch could do it then it must have been easy?

As for your other questions, Joe Rogan didn't ask those or any similar questions so I have to believe that either Rogan believed him, or Rogan was afraid to question LeBell's veracity which is entirely possible.

Quite the pedantic response there, especially since you didn't engage with my other points. "because Gotch would just grab one of their legs and break it. LeBell said he never saw Gotch fail to break the leg of a Jiu-Jitsu guy who was using the guard position." Gene implies that Gotch had little trouble doing those leg breaks...if they actually happened (we still have zero evidence).

 

[mkt]

The guy who sonned the "father" of MMA. Wish Bruce Lee met Carlson Gracie. We wouldn't have to hear about this bs.

I think we can respect LeBell's accomplishments AND acknowledge he's a bitter and perhaps senile older gentleman at this point--and says some things that aren't true. Think about it--he's one of the few Americans who's really understood submission grappling since the 1950s. He fought a boxer in a proto-MMA fight back in the early 1960s. But then he had to watch someone else make submissions popular and mainstream. I'm pretty sure he has a big chip on his shoulder.

 

[TheMaster]

Labell talks alot. Too much, this is likely folktale stuff.
He has a rep but even his near mythic grappling status and Bruce Lee stories are dubious and use creative license

According to Lebell, he single handedly went through the Kodokan elite also. Not very likely story. Again he is an entertainer first. But definately a pioneer no doubt.

His one recorded mma crossover fight with Milo Savage, seeing him take 20 minutes to take down a judo jacket wearing lightweight boxer with no grappling experience makes one wonder on his actual fighting abilities in his prime. The strangle hold finish was good though, made americans aware of the dangerousness of subs and Judo holds.

 

[gono btw]

He fought a boxer in a proto-MMA fight back in the early 1960s. But then he had to watch someone else make submissions popular and mainstream. I'm pretty sure he has a big chip on his shoulder.

Between the 1930s & his fight vs Milo, there was already a Vale Tudo scene rollin´...

 

[Adjutant]

I think we can respect LeBell's accomplishments AND acknowledge he's a bitter and perhaps senile older gentleman at this point--and says some things that aren't true. Think about it--he's one of the few Americans who's really understood submission grappling since the 1950s. He fought a boxer in a proto-MMA fight back in the early 1960s. But then he had to watch someone else make submissions popular and mainstream. I'm pretty sure he has a big chip on his shoulder.

True. He is definitely senile. is it severe? I dont know, but listening to him and watching him (wild, confused eyes) you can tell he is gone to some degree.
The only thing (that I remember) that bothers me about Gene is him talking about how if someone wanted to train under him, he would require that he choke them unconscious. I always that was sort of a BS move

 

[silvasurfer5253]

Josh is probably the best catch wrestler in the sport and hes never been submitted. Hes fought guys like Monson, Pawel nastula, Mir and big nog and he beat Dean Lister in submission grappling. CAtch is legit.

Barnett was submitted by Ben Rothwell via GO-GO choke. True story.

But, he was an awesome grappler.

 

[mkt]

Between the 1930s & his fight vs Milo, there was already a Vale Tudo scene rollin´...

Reading comprehension and context, sir. I had already referred to him as one of the few AMERICANS who understood submission grappling. No Vale Tudo in the U.S. during Gene's prime.

 

[gono btw]

Reading comprehension and context, sir. I had already referred to him as one of the few AMERICANS who understood submission grappling. No Vale Tudo in the U.S. during Gene's prime.

hmmm.. IIRC you were sayin´somethin´like he somehow 'started this whole thing', or felt like it... might have misunderstood then...

 

[Blackjack]

Quite the pedantic response there, especially since you didn't engage with my other points. "because Gotch would just grab one of their legs and break it. LeBell said he never saw Gotch fail to break the leg of a Jiu-Jitsu guy who was using the guard position." Gene implies that Gotch had little trouble doing those leg breaks...if they actually happened (we still have zero evidence).

You referred to them as "easy leg break techniques." If they were easy to do then why would LeBell even bring it up in the interview? The remarkable thing is that it's not easy to do, yet Karl Gotch accomplished it consistently. That's how good he was. That was what made it worthy for inclusion in the interview Joe Rogan conducted with LaBell. I hope that clears up the mystery for you.

Why didn't I engage your other points? Did you really expect me to "engage" the following: "I really doubt the few Americans trained in JJ guys even attempting the guard much." Alright, you doubt it. So what?

How about this gem: "Whose legs did he break"? Gotch broke the legs of any of the jiu-jitsu guys who challenged him and used the guard. I didn't "engage" that point of yours because it was already explained.

If you're so interested in finding out more about it why don't you listen to the interview with Gene LeBell that Joe Rogan conducted in which Karl Gotch was discussed?

 

[mkt]

You referred to them as "easy leg break techniques." If they were easy to do then why would LeBell even bring it up in the interview? The remarkable thing is that it's not easy to do, yet Karl Gotch accomplished it consistently. That's how good he was. That was what made it worthy for inclusion in the interview Joe Rogan conducted with LaBell. I hope that clears up the mystery for you.

Why didn't I engage your other points? Did you really expect me to "engage" the following: "I really doubt the few Americans trained in JJ guys even attempting the guard much." Alright, you doubt it. So what?

How about this gem: "Whose legs did he break"? Gotch broke the legs of any of the jiu-jitsu guys who challenged him and used the guard. I didn't "engage" that point of yours because it was already explained.

If you're so interested in finding out more about it why don't you listen to the interview with Gene LeBell that Joe Rogan conducted in which Karl Gotch was discussed?

You still haven't provided a shred of evidence this happened. Did it happen in gyms? Tournaments (though submission grappling competitions in the 1950s United States were, well, non-existent)? Can we find a single person besides LeBell to verify this? I'm pretty sure some of the broken leg victims would speak up if Gotch was so good at this art.

Who were these skilled jiu jitsu guys in the U.S. 50 years ago, by the way? They were confident enough in their skills to challenge Gotch...so what were their names?

 

[caesar]

As a huge fan of Barnett and a lover of catch, I unfortunately have to correct you here. Josh has, in fact, been submitted in MMA.

Well technically he did 'tap' in his first fight against Mirko <Lmaoo>...

 

[BA0701]

Josh is probably the best catch wrestler in the sport and hes never been submitted. Hes fought guys like Monson, Pawel nastula, Mir and big nog and he beat Dean Lister in submission grappling. CAtch is legit.

Um, while I agree with you about Josh's catch wrestling credentials, he got subbed badly by Rothwell.

 

[BA0701]

As a huge fan of Barnett and a lover of catch, I unfortunately have to correct you here. Josh has, in fact, been submitted in MMA.

Oops, sorry, I posted the same thing after you did. Good catch man

 

[Rvd Slmr]

The remarkable thing is that it's not easy to do, yet Karl Gotch accomplished it consistently. That's how good he was.

Other option, it's bullshit.