Judo vs wrestling.

Freestyle wrestling has TDs below the waist, Judo doesnt.
There are styles of Judo, which use double and single leg takedown variations.. Russian Judo being a prime example. But Japanese judo has them, just not legal in comps. Best wrestling for mma is folkstyle, and for transitions being catch wrestling imo. Judo is the most underutilized practical martial art in mma today, but that is because most styles of it, have yet to transition to a no-gi approach. Though Russian Judo is leading that charge slowly.
 
Well you quite clearly said that judo doesn't have below waist takedowns, which is wrong. And I can assure you that the elite knows their judo thoroughly. Even at the Olympic medal level there are some ground wizards, even though it wouldn't be that necessary anymore. And after all, the elite never cross over to MMA, at least not in their primes.
Well, my arguments were based on talking to some international level judokas who i know. Most of them know the moves but they just never use them in practice. Anyway, thank u for ur insight. I actually tought everybody had abandoned below waist takedowns cause i only kinda follow big competitions.
 
We will find out who wins when Ronda Rousey makes her WWE debut.
 
One comes with pajamas, the other comes in a tight one piece swimsuit
 
Sure it is. There are no champions of MMA that come from "catch wrestling" backgrounds.

You're trying to appear "different" or knowledgable with that asinine statement. There is no "catch wrestling" athletic programs at any schools in any country in the world. If anything, Folkstyle is more or less the evolution of "catch as catch can".
Lol mma fighters come from folk backgrounds because that's what they offer growing up in school.
You don't have submission wrestling in school and bjj has pretty much made true old school catch wrestling into no gi tournaments.
I'm not talking about the new I'm talking submission wrestling anyone who thinks training folk is better for mma purposes doesn't understand grappling in mma.
Collegiate offers 1/4 of grappling that you will use in mma.
Catch offers 3/4 of the grappling you will see in mma.
It's common sense imo
 
No, both do not train hard & train physically. Judo is a working man's "sport". There isn't much high level conditioning/strength training/weight cutting to speak of. There is no culture of extreme, brutal, grueling conditioning & weight cutting within Judo. Not only are those things prevalent in the world of US HS wrestling programs, they are implemented at a very early age.

Couldn't care less about the "heydey" of JMMA. Who were they fighting? Which high level US HS/collegiate folkstyle guys did they face? The sport was ripe with cans who didn't cross train back then as well.

Judo is cool for what it is, but to compare it to Folkstyle as a base for MMA is a null & void argument. No grappling art where the takedown is initiated from the clinch is going to lend itself particularly well to MMA. Not only are takedowns in Folkstyle superior & more effective to takedowns in any grappling style, points are given for maintaining top position & holding an opponent in place for extended periods of time.

Judo doesn't train hard and physically? I think you are clueless. I don't know about US judo, but in the big judo countries and at pro level they absolutely do. It's a huge sport and the competition is fierce, of course they do all they can to reach the top. I don't understand where you are coming from.

You can watch the fights yourself, both the wrestlers and the judo guys I mentioned fought small names and big names. For example, the judokas I mentioned fought (winning or making it competitive) "cans" like Mark Hunt, Wanderlei Silva, Antonio Rogerio Nogueira, Murilo Bustamante, Don Frye, Kevin Randleman, Josh Barnett, Alexander Emelianenko etc.

No matter how highly you respect those names, the point stands that pure elite judo seemed to do a lot better than pure elite wrestling.

As for pure wrestling vs pure judo head to head, it's obvious that judo has the advantage in the submissions and wrestling in that MMA is no-gi. And all this is much simplified of course.
 
Anyway, for what it's worth, in a street fight between a judoka and a wrestler I'd give the edge to the judoka, because of clothes, concrete and submissions.
 
I think one of the reasons folk wrestlers are so dominate in mma is strongly rooted in the dedicated commitment/work ethic that wrestling requires.
 
How is this even a discussion?

Good old fashioned American Folkstyle wrestling (US HS/Collegiate wrestling) trumps every other grappling artform in a real fight.

There's a reason that the only Judo player that has ever dominated in MMA was a woman. Unless you want to call Lombard's can crushing brigade "dominating".

Judo is whatever, but for MMA, it's largely a joke. Especially pure Judo players making the cross over.

Part of Lombard’s shortcomings in mma are in part due to not using his judo and well, actually being pretty short for MW. The one time he decided to toss around a wrestler, Jake Shields, it was pretty damn impressive. Not saying one is better than the other. Clearly wrestling is the way to go in mma, but just saying Lombard’s judo was so good that it’s a shame he didn’t incorporate it more.
 
Judo doesn't train hard and physically? I think you are clueless. I don't know about US judo, but in the big judo countries and at pro level they absolutely do. It's a huge sport and the competition is fierce, of course they do all they can to reach the top. I don't understand where you are coming from.

You can watch the fights yourself, both the wrestlers and the judo guys I mentioned fought small names and big names. For example, the judokas I mentioned fought (winning or making it competitive) "cans" like Mark Hunt, Wanderlei Silva, Antonio Rogerio Nogueira, Murilo Bustamante, Don Frye, Kevin Randleman, Josh Barnett, Alexander Emelianenko etc.

No matter how highly you respect those names, the point stands that pure elite judo seemed to do a lot better than pure elite wrestling.

As for pure wrestling vs pure judo head to head, it's obvious that judo has the advantage in the submissions and wrestling in that MMA is no-gi. And all this is much simplified of course.
It's funny because I myself did 4 years highschool wrestling and thought the same thing that i was incredibly knowledgeable on the ground with just my wrestling experience alone.
Pure folk vs pure bjj or judo similar experience i will take bjj or judo most of the time in a no time limit, tap or quit match.

collegiate experience shines is when it's used as a base to learn bjj, because although they have bad habits( usually off their back for obvious reasons) they learn very quick how to merge both styles and its very a strong base
 
Was gonna say wrestling, hands down, but, then again, against pure greco, I could see Judo having the edge

Keep in mind I'm just thinking about control, not submissions,

but, then you got pure judo pretty much relying on the opponent wearing a gi...

I love the question, but I'm perplexed as fuck, and would love to discuss this with someone in person, in text it would be a mess.
 
Neither Judo nor Sambo have conditioning/weight cutting cultures surrounding them. Sambo is slowly getting there, but it's still light years away from Folkstyle. There's a reason that most MMA champions have been Folkstyle wrestlers, especially in the modern era.

There's a lot more than one reason that factors into that.


Yes,

American orgs. like the UFC sign up mostly american fighters who often have collegiate wrestling backgrounds.

No rocket science.


And that's a big reason.
 
America is the only place where MMA is a legitimate sport. It's a backwater niche freakshow entity elsewhere. The UFC is the main MMA promotion on the planet. Every single aspiring MMA competitor wants to get to the UFC. That's like saying "the only reason AAU guys dominate the NBA is because they're American & the NBA is an American based organization" hurrrrp durrrrrrrrp. There's a reason NBA dropout bums like Steph Marbury go over to China & look like Michael fucking Jordan. Same reason a top Folkstyle athlete like Ben Askren, who has no striking to speak of whatsoever, goes to Asia & runs through whatever they've got over there like a knife through hot butter.

American HS/Collegiate wrestling is the most effective form of combat on the planet. It's been proven time & time again.
it is one of the most effective bases for mma. on it's own it's shit. and i repeat, weight cutting is something only an american would think is good. fuckin hero's always doing looking to stand over smaller people and countries. god bless america and weight cuts.
 
It's funny because I myself did 4 years highschool wrestling and thought the same thing that i was incredibly knowledgeable on the ground with just my wrestling experience alone.
Pure folk vs pure bjj or judo similar experience i will take bjj or judo most of the time in a no time limit, tap or quit match.

collegiate experience shines is when it's used as a base to learn bjj, because although they have bad habits( usually off their back for obvious reasons) they learn very quick how to merge both styles and its very a strong base
sounds about right.
 
4.gif

This fight showed the limitations of Olympic judo. Multiple beautiful takedown techniques were used. Iirc most if not all ended in Jake shields popping right back up on his feet/scrambling on to his feet.
 
Freestyle wrestling has TDs below the waist, Judo doesnt.
It used to not long ago. They keep watering down Judo until there won't be much left. Their ground game is shit compared to BJJ because of favor to olympics, now no attacks to the legs. I guess next there will be only 1 grip allowed. Coming from a Judo background myself I think wrestling has a slight edge. I can throw people with or without the gi if they play into my game by trying to get close or stand but a wrestler that has a pretty good idea of what I'm about will say fuck that shit and look for an ankle pick or keep pushing out. It's hard to throw a good wrestler from my experience. Its often either a stalemate or them getting my foot eventually.
 
Judo is designed with gi in mind, and doesn't translate super efficiently because of this. But real Judo always incorporated attacks at the legs until the olympics neutered it.
 
Ronda's a great example. All of her opponents prior to Bethe willingly engaged in the clinch with her, mostly due to all of them having a grappling base and being comfortable there. Once she fought a high level striker who was dead set on avoiding the clinch she was exposed.
 
Thing about Judo is that I think it creates a linear, rigid way of being. I'm not saying I see a bunch of Sweet Pea Whitaker's coming out of wrestling, but Judo guys/girls seem particularly stiff, short-armed kind of guys.
 
Back
Top