Just had a bad experience rolling with a bigger, stronger guy

[cjd]

There is a huge variation in rotational range of motion in the shoulder, but somehow many people are not aware of this.

For many people, as soon as the arm goes behind the back in a kimura, they are done, and any pressure there is going to result in some sort of shoulder strain.

On the other hand, there are people who can twist and fight quite awkwardly from that position, so many people feel a need to really crank from that position, which is bad for group #1. Falling into group #1 myself, I find that I have to tap to Kimuras basically as soon as I lose any anchoring grip on the front of my body, as I generally don't trust people to slow down when they are finishing the lock.

 

[Kenjamito]

Sorry this happened. He should’ve finished it slower. Whatta jerk. I wish you a speedy recovery.

 

[jr jr]

Big guys I don't know, new guys I don't trust, hell just about anyone who is overeager......

Just tap early and often. It's just practice baby!

 

[beat...people...up?]

There is a huge variation in rotational range of motion in the shoulder, but somehow many people are not aware of this.

For many people, as soon as the arm goes behind the back in a kimura, they are done, and any pressure there is going to result in some sort of shoulder strain.

On the other hand, there are people who can twist and fight quite awkwardly from that position, so many people feel a need to really crank from that position, which is bad for group #1. Falling into group #1 myself, I find that I have to tap to Kimuras basically as soon as I lose any anchoring grip on the front of my body, as I generally don't trust people to slow down when they are finishing the lock.

Yeah, I'm one of the second group and almost can't feel kimura pressure at all. But if you crank on my neck it's a different story.

 

[cjd]

Yeah, I'm one of the second group and almost can't feel kimura pressure at all. But if you crank on my neck it's a different story.

Yeah I’ve found that this is because of the lack of emphasis on the absolute end-game: controlling submissions when they’re on on and precise breaking pressure. Many (non-advanced) athletes gloss over this stuff and rely on power to finish.

 

[maximus__]

Yeah, I'm one of the second group and almost can't feel kimura pressure at all. But if you crank on my neck it's a different story.

I am in both groups.... Kimura from guard and I will will tap before it's even close in training. I nearly have to tap to really good cross faces sometimes due to a neck issue.

I have nearly fixed the issue, but i will never get that shoulder mobility back.

 

[Vil7]

1. Get wrecked by blue belt.
2. Cry on a Karate forum.
3. ????
4. Profit!!!

Karate kick him in the balls!

 

[rmongler]

Tap when when you realize you're fucked not after you're fucked.

 

[dmwalking]

Have you guys ever been hurt by a bigger dude doing some strong man thing and over-cranking a sub? I hit a sweep on this dude who is a blue belt like me but bigger and stronger. After the sweep we landed in side control. I was on top and holding position, then I felt him reach over for a Kimura on me and I was thinking I was ok because I had top pressure, side control. and also never had this next experience. He bench pressed all my weight off of him, flipped me over, cranked the sub, popped my shoulder, and now I'm injured.

I've had similar experiences with bigger dudes where if I mount them, they will bench-press me and flip me over. Pure strength. I know how to post properly, or shift my hips etc... to avoid this kind of thing but it still seems to happen when I'm against people with 20+ pounds on me. I've been working on my strength training this year at the gym in hopes that I can counter some of these tactics, however I'm just not very big or strong naturally so it's hard to close that gap. Discouraging af to have side control on a dude only to have my arm ripped off seconds later in training. I've never injured a training partner in 7 years and this guy is getting a bit of a rep for it within his first year at the club.

If he's doing a benchpress, go knee on belly or armbar. Also, talk to your instructor if the guy keeps hurting people.

 

[dmwalking]

Kimuras are very dangerous, they tore right in the joints, I've tore a ligament in the shoulder in my first week of BJJ.

For injury prevention, it's two ways in my opinion. If you lose control of your arm (grip in your gi/belt or grip with the other hand) you prepare to tap.

When you attack, you can yank it until it goes over the rib cage where there's no chance for him to get back a grip and defend. Afterwards you just put pressure slowly until he taps.

You can be explosive in training, but when you have everything, there's no need to finish with explosion. It's the same thing with armbars, kneebars, americanas, guillotines… IMO only chokes that don't crank the neck can be finished with full power. So you fight like crazy to break all the grips and defenses and to take full control of the position, but you calm down to put the final pressure to finish.

Maybe you won't get some taps from stubborn training partners, but at least you won't be the guy injuring everyone.

Yeah, the instructor needs to do a better job instructing students not to crank so damn hard.

 

[Snolla]

Yeah, the instructor needs to do a better job instructing students not to crank so damn hard.

I drilled with the guy tonight and rolled with him a few times. We chatted about it and we had a good session. He thanked me for letting him know that the damage happened. I think we are both better off now. I understand how dangerous kimuras can be if you try to escape and he realized how dangerous it can be to crank it in training.

 

[Dogstarman]

Have you guys ever been hurt by a bigger dude doing some strong man thing and over-cranking a sub? I hit a sweep on this dude who is a blue belt like me but bigger and stronger. After the sweep we landed in side control. I was on top and holding position, then I felt him reach over for a Kimura on me and I was thinking I was ok because I had top pressure, side control. and also never had this next experience. He bench pressed all my weight off of him, flipped me over, cranked the sub, popped my shoulder, and now I'm injured.

I've had similar experiences with bigger dudes where if I mount them, they will bench-press me and flip me over. Pure strength. I know how to post properly, or shift my hips etc... to avoid this kind of thing but it still seems to happen when I'm against people with 20+ pounds on me. I've been working on my strength training this year at the gym in hopes that I can counter some of these tactics, however I'm just not very big or strong naturally so it's hard to close that gap. Discouraging af to have side control on a dude only to have my arm ripped off seconds later in training. I've never injured a training partner in 7 years and this guy is getting a bit of a rep for it within his first year at the club.

Dude that Kimura trap sweep works with a lot of people, it’s not just a big guy technique. If you have a good kimura grip your going to get flipped unless you fight it. If you fight it, say good bye to your shoulder. You let your ego get in the way by fighting it and thinking you have topside control.

Also, top side control isn’t a guaranteed position against giant monster guys. I’ve been power reversed by strong power lifter guys. You need to be more mobile and fluid. I mean you need to be able to adapt and tap.

 

[Ice 9 Cobra]

Injured shoulder on Sunday, trained and rolled on Wednesday....lol

 

[Russky]

This should not happen. In BJJ smaller, weaker guy always win since Helio invented leverage.

I am off the mat for 5 weeks already. Partially torn calf and hamstring muscles with illegal knee bar. The partner was bigger, stronger, brown belt idiot who was trying to prove something.

 

[INTERL0PER]

I ended up with a bulged disc in my neck from a big strong guy who cranked a guillotine... And it was my fault.

I popped a ligament in my foot/ankle from a smaller, but strong as fuck, guy who cranked a toe hold... And it was my fault.

The guillotine was one of those times where I was stuck, but it wasn't "perfect" so I could survive. But in reality, I was fucked, with no way out and should've just tapped. He shouldn't have cranked the angle he did, but the larger problem was me not tapping.

The toe hold was literally just me being straight up retarded. He had the toe hold, and I just stared at it, thinking "Maybe he'll just let it go?" Honestly, what a fucking idiot. Why would he let it go? Of course, he just thought it wasn't on properly and continued to apply pressure.

In both cases, there was an audible "pop" and both guys let go immediately... And I had to take extended time off.

I've since learned to not be so fucking retarded.

 

[Vitamin C]

Injured shoulder on Sunday, trained and rolled on Wednesday....lol

Yeah this.
And the guy didn't know about the injury but sherdog did.

 

[method115]

I've since learned to not be so fucking retarded.

Yea my first Kimura injury made me realize this. I just tap I don't care about my ego anymore. My shoulders aren't going to get destroyed from this hobby.

 

[Thaijitsu612]

Maybe be used muscle but using that kimura sweep is not bench pressing you off. Its a common technique you have to be aware of.

That said people need tp take it easy. Guys get too excited about getting a sub. As soon as their hand gets behind their back in a kimura I go super slow, if they escape so be it but usually that's the point of no return anyway.

 

[INTERL0PER]

Yea my first Kimura injury made me realize this. I just tap I don't care about my ego anymore. My shoulders aren't going to get destroyed from this hobby.

Yup.

I've just learned to focus on the long game, not the short game. Tapping early doesn't matter. Getting injured does. It sounds stupid to even have to say it, but it takes a while to remember that in the heat of the moment when you're rolling.

Same thing applies to overtraining. Better to take a day off and rest than come in tired, push my body too hard and get injured.

I'm not training to be a world champ, so there's just no point risking injury.

 

[Ice 9 Cobra]

I don't think I've ever rolled with a high level guy who didn't take submissions with force. Maybe if the skill difference is to the point it's a pandering roll, but not in the norm.