Justin Gaethje / Lightweight

That’s better said and is how I’m thinking. Would love to see them fight and because I happen to like Justin more, I’d like to see him win.
I feel ya. Khabib is my boy so I'm always gonna back him (in a realistic matchup). I wouldn't be mad if Gaethje took home a win tho. He's one of the last few of a dieing breed. Gotta respect the man
 
now you can send them down because they were just hype (Ironically, Gaethje's the one that fits this scenario).

Nah. Had Gaethje been just hype as the Zuffa Zombies said he was -- he'd been KO by MJ in the first round. As it was, he beat that guy and had a car-crash of a fight with top 5 Eddie Alvarez. Gaethje is a terrific competitor even though he lost his last two bouts.

and they could do that by factoring in for fighters who have extensive amateur careers. Boxing usually factors that in by looking at medals and amateur accomplishments, and not just the Olympics which is the only thing that seems to get any hype in MMA. If they looked at wrestling, sambo, sanda, BJJ and Amateur-MMA accomplishments they could easily determine if someone deserves to be ranked highly even if they don't have well-known UFC / US names on their record.

I think the proposition you're making is unsound. Why demand that Ranking Sites get a better overview of how amateur/other sport achievements play into the rankings -- when you could just demand that they get a better overview of MMA accomplishments? Which seems a much more reasonable and likely transformation to occur. Also, taking into account other sports/amateurs creates some truly nebulous situations. How many fighters would genuinely have their rankings improved if you look at amateur careers? None is the answer. Also, it's darn difficult to assess how good someone will be based on their achievements in other sports. For every Yoel Romero, there are plenty of highly decorated people who don't pan out or are outskilled by people with virtually no history in said sports (like GSP with wrestling).

they have a blacklist on North-Caucasian fighters

Is that a fact or a theory?

As you mentioned -- Ali Aziz pretty much dominates the management of North-Caucasus fighters, and Ali Aziz is very, very sketchy when it comes to dealing with Bellator. He sends almost all of them to UFC or PFL, but the only one he has in Bellator seems to be Neiman Grace (who needless to say isn't from that region).
 
Nah. Had Gaethje been just hype as the Zuffa Zombies said he was -- he'd been KO by MJ in the first round. As it was, he beat that guy and had a car-crash of a fight with top 5 Eddie Alvarez. Gaethje is a terrific competitor even though he lost his last two bouts.

I am not saying he was hype. I am contrasting his situation with that of ACB champs. Meaning, I would like them to be given the same treatment that Gaethje received. And if they're hype, as some like to contend about every Russian fighter, then that would make Gaethje the same since he lost his last 2 bouts. I just want them all to be treated similarly because I believe ACB champs are just as legit as Gaethje.

Is that a fact or a theory?

As you mentioned -- Ali Aziz pretty much dominates the management of North-Caucasus fighters, and Ali Aziz is very, very sketchy when it comes to dealing with Bellator. He sends almost all of them to UFC or PFL, but the only one he has in Bellator seems to be Neiman Grace (who needless to say isn't from that region).

It is both. The blacklist is a theory. The fact is they have no North Caucasian fighters. The Russian Olympic wrestling team is entirely NC for example; makes no logical sense for Bellator to have Russian fighters yet not NCs. There's so much talent there but only one gets to represent Russia per category that many of them end up representing Belarus, Azerbaijan and other states at the Olympics. Nothing's stopping anyone from scouting talent from there.

Ali is not the one enforcing the monopoly on NC or Russian fighters. He doesn't control fighters from that region, he just happens to be the only one making the effort to sign them. Prior to Ali, it was Sam Kardan that managed NC fighters. He's the one that managed Khabib, and Adlan Amagov in Strikeforce. He eventually retired from management, and Khabib moved onto Ali. That is how Ali got into signing Dagestani guys, which began with signing Khabib's teammates the likes of Tukhugov, Khabilov and Machachev. There is nothing stopping Bellator from signing guys from that region from gyms that have nothing to do with Ali–and there's plenty of them. The same for the UFC.

I think the proposition you're making is unsound. Why demand that Ranking Sites get a better overview of how amateur/other sport achievements play into the rankings -- when you could just demand that they get a better overview of MMA accomplishments? Which seems a much more reasonable and likely transformation to occur. Also, taking into account other sports/amateurs creates some truly nebulous situations. How many fighters would genuinely have their rankings improved if you look at amateur careers? None is the answer. Also, it's darn difficult to assess how good someone will be based on their achievements in other sports. For every Yoel Romero, there are plenty of highly decorated people who don't pan out or are outskilled by people with virtually no history in said sports (like GSP with wrestling).

How so? I'm not proposing the amateur accomplishment in and of itself make the fighter ranked high [Tapology/etc]. Perhaps I should elaborate. If a fighter is being dominant in his wins or performance, the way to determine whether he's simply winning because he's fighting "no names" vs winning because he's genuinely dominant is by looking at amateur accomplishment. It's not uncommon in boxing rankings. If he's dominant and has a preexisting history of being dominant/successful than clearly he's not just hype or overrated, and therefore should be factored into his ranking. Otherwise you're just relying on names who have fought in the UFC/Bellator which is impossible to have on your record if you're from outside North America.

Generally, a fighter with extensive accomplishments in wrestling or sambo will do good in MMA, since they cover the grappling aspect of MMA that is the main hurdling point for someone who comes from a decorated striking background but then gets owned in MMA. Amateur MMA is also pretty big in Russia under the Russian MMA Union and WMMAA who organize regional, national and world tournaments in amateur MMA. Zabit is a former Russian national champ, and was in a number of other tournaments that's not properly recorded on Tapology/Sherdog.
 
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How so? I'm not proposing the amateur accomplishment in and of itself make the fighter ranked high [Tapology/etc]. Perhaps I should elaborate. If a fighter is being dominant in his wins or performance, the way to determine whether he's simply winning because he's fighting "no names" vs winning because he's genuinely dominant is by looking at amateur accomplishment. It's not uncommon in boxing rankings. If he's dominant and has a preexisting history of being dominant/successful than clearly he's not just hype or overrated, and therefore should be factored into his ranking. Otherwise you're just relying on names who have fought in the UFC/Bellator which is impossible to have on your record if you're from outside North America.

Generally, a fighter with extensive accomplishments in wrestling or sambo will do good in MMA, since they cover the grappling aspect of MMA that is the main hurdling point for someone who comes from a decorated striking background but then gets owned in MMA.

That seems more reasonable.

That said, considering the nature of MMA rankings, people usually are just considering the Top 10 or the Top 15. That's a precious short list. I highly doubt Peter Yan (to keep him as an example) would have managed to break into that. And in MMA, rankings are no certainty for a highly ranked opponent in your UFC bouts. The UFC constantly tried matching up John Fitch or Usman with relatively low-ranked, killer prospect in hopes that they would lose. Also, the UFC rankings only measure people exclusively on their UFC-accomplishments, which doesn't help much. Not to mention people who were borderline top 10 for over half a decade, like Mamed Khalidov, who the UFC didn't recruit simply because it wasn't financially profitable to pay his hefty price sum. Basically, rankings hold little sway outside promo material right before the fight. I don't necessarily think that a high ranking brings on a lot hype behind a fighter, but more that a lot of hype brings on ranked fights upon arrival in the UFC (which by implication means that it's more driven by market demand than any statistical assessment of the debuting fighter).
 
That seems more reasonable.

That said, considering the nature of MMA rankings, people usually are just considering the Top 10 or the Top 15. That's a precious short list. I highly doubt Peter Yan (to keep him as an example) would have managed to break into that. And in MMA, rankings are no certainty for a highly ranked opponent in your UFC bouts. The UFC constantly tried matching up John Fitch or Usman with relatively low-ranked, killer prospect in hopes that they would lose. Also, the UFC rankings only measure people exclusively on their UFC-accomplishments, which doesn't help much. Not to mention people who were borderline top 10 for over half a decade, like Mamed Khalidov, who the UFC didn't recruit simply because it wasn't financially profitable to pay his hefty price sum. Basically, rankings hold little sway outside promo material right before the fight. I don't necessarily think that a high ranking brings on a lot hype behind a fighter, but more that a lot of hype brings on ranked fights upon arrival in the UFC (which by implication means that it's more driven by market demand than any statistical assessment of the debuting fighter).


I was referring to Tapology (and RankingMMA.com and FightMatrix) type worldwide lists. Obviously, UFC isn't going to factor foreign fighters who are not even in their organization. For the UFC's rankings, I suggested the completely different route of giving them a ranked opponent in their second fight (for ACB champs). I think you confused the two.

Nowadays people turn to sites like Tapology to see who are the fighters outside the UFC, overseas, or who the UFC should sign. It's in those lists that people pay attention to the Top 25 or Top 50. And it would make sense to factor in decorated amateur accomplishments so that they're ranked in the upper class (Top 20-30) and not completely missing or lost at like 75, 100 or 200 ranks where they're treated the same as the novices who just got into MMA without preexisting accomplishments.
 
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