Karate blocks against punches/weapons

[JustOnce]

If you watch the karate kumites, none of them freaking uses anything that resembles blocks that they teach and practice day after day...

Especially, against a knifed opponent, can you imagine trying to downblock a knife?

I can understand the rational behind teaching these movements and I'm sure that they may have been more effect against ranged weapon, as I think karate was really originated to be able to defend themselves against a armed opponents, like a samurai, but it's kinda funny how like no one uses them in karate competition, whether its jka, taekwondo or kyokushin.

 

[dudeguyman]

If you watch the karate kumites, none of them freaking uses anything that resembles blocks that they teach and practice day after day...

Especially, against a knifed opponent, can you imagine trying to downblock a knife?

I can understand the rational behind teaching these movements and I'm sure that they may have been more effect against ranged weapon, as I think karate was really originated to be able to defend themselves against a armed opponents, like a samurai, but it's kinda funny how like no one uses them in karate competition, whether its jka, taekwondo or kyokushin.

From my experience those karate blocks do deflect well, but are too slow to follow up on and will get you over run. Apparently you need to apply them correctly, and they work. I've read you use them as strikes, or grabs, but if you use it as a strike and block with it and try to grab them, there arm already bounced away. Also, another thing I read is, instead of using your forearm bone, using the top of your forearm allows for using both the radius and the ulna to block at the same time. I think if I was using a karate block against a knife wielding attacker, I would use the last method, because then my veins on the underside of my arm are facing away from the blade.

 

[LEGS MAHONEY]

Theres actually no evidence at all that karate was developed to fight the Samurai and karate scholars regard this as a myth.

Besides the fact that many of these blocks are strikes and grapples that have been bastardized in modern times there is also evidence to suggest the Okinawans would have used a weapon resembling a crude brass knuckle and a short stabbing type weapon. Thus some of the strikes and blocks in the kata would have reflected this and the considering the art purely an empty hand system is not accurate.

note the brass knuckles here

 

[FightGuyOpenMind]

Kumite usually involves wearing gloves of some kind. I could see these blocks working better if they were enforced in sparring instead of the point fighting system you see in many kumite situations.

I've generally heard that kata is applied to self defense situations, which I would agree is different than fighting. Squaring up with a guy is different than someone getting into your space uninvited, perhaps even grabbing your shoulder or collar.

Overall I think it is a matter of practice. You'll become proficient at what you practice.

 

[JustOnce]

Theres actually no evidence at all that karate was developed to fight the Samurai and karate scholars regard this is a myth.

Besides the fact that many of these blocks are strikes and grapples that have been bastardized in modern times there is also evidence to suggest the Okinawans would have used a weapon resembling a crude brass knuckle and a short stabbing type weapon. Thus some of the strikes and blocks in the kata would have reflected this and the considering the art purely an empty hand system is not accurate.

note the brass knuckles here

Fairly sure

 

[listrahtes]

I can understand the rational behind teaching these movements and I'm sure that they may have been more effect against ranged weapon, ,

If they would have used it against armed opponents who arent quadriplegic all Karateka would have been dead in days and we wouldnt have these threads. Its always a very very low percentage move to try to block a weapon attack and against a "ranged weapon" well just <Lmaoo>. Much more effective to grab whatever you can or gtfo.

They way blocks are shown in most of Karate I am pretty certain no one in history ever defended against a weapon like that and was sucessful. Well kind of a way to not bring back negative feedback

The blocks in Karate in general are way too stylized and just dont work. I never met a Karateka even at elite (JKA) level capable of executing them in sparring. Best application of blocks imo is in arts like MT and boxing were it is developed out of sparring and drills and flows kind of natural as an intermediate beetween offense and defense by mostly deflecting blows and not blocking. Maybe looks similar but is studied and developed completely different. Still against a weapon just a bad idea.

 

[Mike K.O]

If you want some knife defense, watch Bas Rutten videos. Blocking with karate blocks is useless most of the time.

 

[RightToBareKnuckles]

i wonder if in general, some of the exaggerated movements in various TMAs are meant to "over train" the technique to reinforce it? like if you were working on sprinting 100m, you'd sprint to 120m...if that makes sense. also, Hotora86's thread here may help

http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/psa-karate-blocks-are-not-blocks.3816397/

 

[JustOnce]

If they would have used it against armed opponents who arent quadriplegic all Karateka would have been dead in days and we wouldnt have these threads. Its always a very very low percentage move to try to block a weapon attack and against a "ranged weapon" well just <Lmaoo>. Much more effective to grab whatever you can or gtfo.

They way blocks are shown in most of Karate I am pretty certain no one in history ever defended against a weapon like that and was sucessful. Well kind of a way to not bring back negative feedback

The blocks in Karate in general are way too stylized and just dont work. I never met a Karateka even at elite (JKA) level capable of executing them in sparring. Best application of blocks imo is in arts like MT and boxing were it is developed out of sparring and drills and flows kind of natural as an intermediate beetween offense and defense by mostly deflecting blows and not blocking. Maybe looks similar but is studied and developed completely different. Still against a weapon just a bad idea.

no i think the idea is to get in range enough to apply the attack at the hands, i think, obviously not at the weapon. Like, as they swing for example, get in close apply the upper block, for one, then middle punch.

 

[eternaldarkness]

If they would have used it against armed opponents who arent quadriplegic all Karateka would have been dead in days and we wouldnt have these threads. Its always a very very low percentage move to try to block a weapon attack and against a "ranged weapon" well just <Lmaoo>. Much more effective to grab whatever you can or gtfo.

They way blocks are shown in most of Karate I am pretty certain no one in history ever defended against a weapon like that and was sucessful. Well kind of a way to not bring back negative feedback

The blocks in Karate in general are way too stylized and just dont work. I never met a Karateka even at elite (JKA) level capable of executing them in sparring. Best application of blocks imo is in arts like MT and boxing were it is developed out of sparring and drills and flows kind of natural as an intermediate beetween offense and defense by mostly deflecting blows and not blocking. Maybe looks similar but is studied and developed completely different. Still against a weapon just a bad idea.

Karate style blocks can and do work. I have a friend who blocks kinda karate style, out and away from the body. I can't punch through his guard like I can when people try to rely on the superglue high guard.

 

[shinkyoku]

The blocks usually works just fine when doing them in a simplified way, but that is very seldom the case for the full movement.
The thing is, that is not the point of the full movement. Back in the old days stuff was taught with exotic names like crane dancing on a leaf or whatever poetic drivel someone though sounded good, and then you were shown several applications for that move. But when karate was brought mainstream, techniques was divided up into strikes and blocks on a very generic level, based on shallow outward appearances. People started learning them walking back and forth in lines, and never being shown applications.

Most moves serves several purposes. simplified moves actually works as blocks, full moves are usually grab&limb control
Here iain abernethy shows us a flowdrill (flowdrill =teaching tool, it is not a combat drill) for a few basic blocks:


someone else saying basically the same


That this is almost completely forgotten in karate, is a sign of how much has been lost.
From day 1 in karate I was told the old adage "a punch is not always a punch, and a block is not always a block" -the problem is that it usually stops there and noone shows what else it can be.

 

[Human Bass]

Machida knocked Bader out thanks to a block.

 

[Eisenhans]

Well, I know the blocks you are talking about. Problem is: We don't know if those are blocks at all. That's just they way everyone and their mother started to interpret it after Karate got watered down into childrens' calisthenics by Itosu iirc.
If we look at the history of karate, it was basically all Kata and no Kihon (even Karate-Do Kyohan talks about only doing Kata and some Kumite for the Japanese students) - so those "blocks" are literally taken out of context and we don't know anymore what their original use was.

 

[JustOnce]

Well, I know the blocks you are talking about. Problem is: We don't know if those are blocks at all. That's just they way everyone and their mother started to interpret it after Karate got watered down into childrens' calisthenics by Itosu iirc.
If we look at the history of karate, it was basically all Kata and no Kihon (even Karate-Do Kyohan talks about only doing Kata and some Kumite for the Japanese students) - so those "blocks" are literally taken out of context and we don't know anymore what their original use was.

Except we do since the father of modern karates book shows these blocks as well as his main disciple

 

[Eisenhans]

Except we do since the father of modern karates book shows these blocks as well as his main disciple

Did you read my post? Or just a third of it?

To quote myself:

That's just they way everyone and their mother started to interpret it after Karate got watered down into childrens' calisthenics by Itosu iirc.

 

[JustOnce]

Did you read my post? Or just a third of it?

To quote myself:

Gichin Funakoshi and Nakamura, his disciple, says they are blocks.

I tend to believe they seem little more credible about karate than anyone else past present future.

Just a little bit, I guess. What do they know after all, eh

 

[Eisenhans]

Gichin Funakoshi and Nakamura, his disciple, says they are blocks.

I tend to believe they seem little more credible about karate than anyone else past present future.

Just a little bit, I guess. What do they know after all, eh

No wonder since Itosu taught them. You don't seem to understand my post, but I guess that's ok.

 

[JustOnce]

No wonder since Itosu taught them. You don't seem to understand my post, but I guess that's ok.

Mmhm i did a double take I understood what you are saying.

Its pretty retarded on some superhuman level to imply that but oh boy youve done it

 

[Eisenhans]

Mmhm i did a double take I understood what you are saying.
Its pretty retarded on some superhuman level to imply that but oh boy youve done it

Geez. Don't call other people retarded when you can't read.

 

[JustOnce]

Geez. Don't call other people retarded when you can't read.

Well dont talk outta ur ass if u dont now nuthing. Its some another level.