Karate blocks against punches/weapons

[JohnPJones]

1. Correct. Look up Motobu Choki, karate's version of a young Miyamoto Musashi (rough and tumble, loves to fight thus bad rep within genteel MA circles0.
2. Wrong. BJJ is from Judo, Judo is from Kito ryu. Kito ryu (verified pre-1860 lineage) is not related to Daito ryu (contentious pre-1860 lineage) in terms of jujutsu. Rather, a branch of aikido, tomiki, stemmed from judo.

Wrong. Many styles were based on real fights. The problem is with the succeeding generations who didn't fought and yet still taught the style, not knowing the intricacies of fighting. They then had to resort to bullshit explanations to impress potential students. One can find vestiges of fighting in a style's traditional kata (aka those passed unchanged for 3 generations or more).
You can see this "not working" shit happen if BJJ were to altogether stop rolling and competing for three generations, and delete all visual records of it being used in a fight.. ​

well guess I’ll look up kano’s book, but as for people challenging famous karateka by randomly attacking them it happened according to toguchi in his books, it happened to him and another of his contemporaries. They weren’t formal challenges they were random attacks.

Your assertion that karate has no combat or real life origins is simply false. I agree MOST karate today has no application to real fighting or full contact competition, some still does and there’s now a subset of karateka (I consider myself one)are trying to bring back useful karate.

BJJ already has fakes and scam artists appearing give it another decade or so and I think there will be plenty of fake BJJ schools out there teaching bad BJJ

 

[JohnPJones]

Just to be clear toguchi’s tone in the book makes it seem the random attacks were not so rare as to be shocking when they happened, but I don’t know how common they really were over the years.

 

[Tayski]

I obviously said that he was using SOME moves. Not that all of his moves were only from TMA. The point of my post was that almost none of karate comes out in MMA.

So not only you clearly don't know much about the topic, but you also have reading difficulties.

If you read my comment again and try to understand what is being said, you'll see that I'm not talking about the proportion of Karate moves out of Machida's arsenal, but rather the fact that he's far from the only fighter who uses Karate techniques and footwork in MMA, as opposed to what you're saying with "that's only one man, one man doesn't prove anything".

Sometimes when you don't know about a topic it's best not to make assumptions and try to pass them as truth.

As someone with a background in 2 styles of Karate, and some training in other striking arts, I can tell when I see someone using Karate footwork and techniques. Just on the top of my head and other than Machida fighters like GSP, Gunnar Nelson, Michelle Waterson, Ryan Jimmo, Robert Whittaker, Uriah Hall, Stephen Thompson, and quite a few others use some Karate techniques and/or footwork. Hell you even see guys like Conor McGregor trying to emulate the Karate stance and bouncy in and out movement sometimes.

 

[Hotora86]

If you watch the karate kumites, none of them freaking uses anything that resembles blocks that they teach and practice day after day...

Especially, against a knifed opponent, can you imagine trying to downblock a knife?

I can understand the rational behind teaching these movements and I'm sure that they may have been more effect against ranged weapon, as I think karate was really originated to be able to defend themselves against a armed opponents, like a samurai, but it's kinda funny how like no one uses them in karate competition, whether its jka, taekwondo or kyokushin.

Have you seen this thread?
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/psa-karate-blocks-are-not-blocks.3816397/

 

[babycart]

well guess I’ll look up kano’s book, but as for people challenging famous karateka by randomly attacking them it happened according to toguchi in his books, it happened to him and another of his contemporaries. They weren’t formal challenges they were random attacks.

Your assertion that karate has no combat or real life origins is simply false. I agree MOST karate today has no application to real fighting or full contact competition, some still does and there’s now a subset of karateka (I consider myself one)are trying to bring back useful karate.

BJJ already has fakes and scam artists appearing give it another decade or so and I think there will be plenty of fake BJJ schools out there teaching bad BJJ

Where did I assert that karate had no combat origins? I even gave out the name of karateka Choki Motobu, Funakoshi's greatest rival (Funakoshi had low rep in Okinawa, more genteel and more cerebral while Choki was the epitome of the karate street fighter). Choki even vehemently opposed Funakoshi's "Karate ni sente nashi!"

Only when Funakoshi disseminated karate to the public a la public Tai Chi did karate started to lose its details. Add to that post-WW2 GI's learning such karate and then teaching that, you got a recipe for disaster. Thank heavens for Mas Oyama (another rough-and-tumble karateka).

As someone with a background in 2 styles of Karate, and some training in other striking arts, I can tell when I see someone using Karate footwork and techniques. Just on the top of my head and other than Machida fighters like GSP, Gunnar Nelson, Michelle Waterson, Ryan Jimmo, Robert Whittaker, Uriah Hall, Stephen Thompson, and quite a few others use some Karate techniques and/or footwork. Hell you even see guys like Conor McGregor trying to emulate the Karate stance and bouncy in and out movement sometimes.

Cuz there are people who showed others how it worked by using it in recorded fights. Thus the details are there for all to see. Sadly, many TMAs have no such records, even in the Age of YouTube...​

 

[FighterTwister]

yes mixed martial arts, meaning martial arts discussion.

but you're clearly quite ignorant on the topic of actual martial arts, probably little more than a brawler.

This issue exactly is what bugs me deeply!

People think that a sport under a rule set ( Rules, Regulations and Restrictions) is M.A aka MMA.

No.......... its not thats UFC making money out of it LoL..... Dana White was smart $$$$$$$$

Absolutely clueless of what real martial art is and I mean those who pay the price day in and day out conditioning and perfecting their art seriously with many hours of hard dedication conditioning their bodies making their bodies like weapon a bar of steel.

Thing is people today being 2018 have not see this in person up front.

I have and its for real its no where near MMA but far beyond a sport thats why they are called "Killing Arts"!

Not the many McDojos of today and I have seen many handing out Black Belts like Big Macs.

White washing and watering down the essence of true martial art skill, ability and teachings.............in the view that MMA is reality..... no its just a brawl.

Put a high ranked Martial Artist young, fast, agile, and willing and able to read a fight intelligently is more than a brawl, but we live in the modern world you go to prison in the reality of things.

That is why I say, you got to have a healthy respect, a personal passion or appreciation to learn, practice and master TMA for what it truly is, as its not a game or a sport but the real thing.

Its rare thing and usually found in those in High Rank practicing various deadly and illegal techniques that can not be used in sports combat but only because they love the M.A as a way of life a labor of love.

Were these people instruct privately military, police and other law enforcement branches real tactics and strategies of fighting or aka Killing Arts.

Its a personal thing like running a triathlon you got to have a healthy respect for it and an appreciation for it!

But you would think in this forum even just online anywhere there would be this view and understanding, it is surprising to see the level of ignorance and stupidity by people with their poor replies posting everywhere on forums and even going as far as provoking real teachers and those who publicly run online businesses and demonstrations.

Only to be met by these juvenile idiots that should see the inside of a prison cell first before making pathetic online posts provoking Sifu's and Sensi's online.

What type of person is it that pays to see a fight eating Big Macs and has no clue or depth of understanding what they are actually observing, simply lazy and ignorant people that have never seen the inside of a Kwoon or a Dojo and actually made a commitment to even learn about at least one true TMA to gain insight.

Poor lost souls, they would be better donating that money to a good cause.

However this picture sums it up so well.......

The word tenacity is interesting used above meaning.........

TENACITY

/tɪˈnasɪti/
noun
noun: tenacity

1. the quality or fact of being able to grip something firmly; grip.
   "the sheer tenacity of the limpet"
   synonyms: persistence, pertinacity, determination, perseverance, doggedness, tenaciousness, single-mindedness, strength of will, firmness of purpose, strength of purpose, fixity of purpose, bulldog spirit, tirelessness, indefatigability, resolution, resoluteness, resolve, firmness, patience, purposefulness, staunchness, steadfastness, constancy, staying power, application, diligence, assiduity, sedulousness, insistence, relentlessness, inexorability, inexorableness, implacability, inflexibility; More
   stubbornness, intransigence, obstinacy, obduracy, obdurateness;
   Sitzfleisch;
   informalstickability;
   informalstick-to-it-iveness;
   rarecontinuance, perseveration
   "the tenacity with which he stuck to his story"
   antonyms: irresolution, lack of resolve
   • the quality or fact of being very determined; determination.
     "you have to admire the tenacity of these two guys"
   • the quality or fact of continuing to exist; persistence.
     "the tenacity of certain myths within the historical record"

 

[Tayski]

Cuz there are people who showed others how it worked by using it in recorded fights. Thus the details are there for all to see. Sadly, many TMAs have no such records, even in the Age of YouTube...​

I'm not sure if you are replying to my comment or simply adding to it as a tangent to another discussion.

 

[Tayski]

I find this picture way too much black and white like "MMA is bad hmmmkay, do real TMA's instead because it's awesome and makes you a real respectful human being".

Truth is MMA is not as bad as it is portrayed here and TMA's are not as awesome as this picture makes it sound.

To me it is important to have something in the middle where discipline, respect and humbleness are still values you're learning and attaching yourself to but while also learning efficient proven combat techniques and not wasting time practising useless fluff.

I also take those "illegal deadly techniques" with a pinch of salt as a lot of the time it is unproven techniques, that you cannot test in any environment because they are too deadly, and actually probably wouldn't even be able to pull them out in a real situation as you'd end up in jail anyway. So what's the point?

The reality is, the only situations that would require such drastic measures would usually involve several dudes beating on you or most important weapons, and those deadly techniques suddenly become useless, because I can guarantee you that if you give me knife or a gun and my objective is to finish you, your karate or krav maga disarming techniques will go out of the window.

The ignorance that you are pointing at from MMA fans here on this forum is mostly based on the fact that there is so much bullshido (note the spelling to understand what I mean here) out there in TMA's with so many mcdojo's, fake instructors, supposedly killing arts which are all bullshit, and so on, that it is sometimes difficult to know what is real or not other than what is proven in a sports environment, in which case it is easy to see what is and isn't working. For a start any martial art that doesn't teach any form of full contact should already not be advertised as a proven self-protection art, that is false advertising.

I don't know why you even mention the fans of combat sports who are just spectators to a show, just like they would go to the cinema or some other kind of performance. Those are only spectators, they're not the practitioners.

 

[JohnPJones]

I also take those "illegal deadly techniques" with a pinch of salt as a lot of the time it is unproven techniques, that you cannot test in any environment because they are too deadly, and actually probably wouldn't even be able to pull them out in a real situation as you'd end up in jail anyway. So what's the point?

While self defense and use of force laws vary from state to state and in some cases city to city, I have studied and reviewed self defense laws while arguing self defense shootings, as well as for jurisdictions I live in/have lived in, and have traveled to, and I've got to say in all the states I've visited or lived in, in the last 5 years i doubt you'd go to jail if you killed an attacker while you were unarmed. people die in 'fist fights' regularly, and they'd have to prove your intent was to kill the aggressor, or that you did the technique after the aggressor attempted to disengage.

but I'm not a lawyer, just read a lot of self defense laws, and case law (particularly massad ayoob in regards to firearms, self defense, and the court system.)

But in the end would you rather be crippled for life possibly dead, or go to jail for a year or two for manslaughter at worst, with the possibility of getting out early with good behavior?

 

[FighterTwister]

While self defense and use of force laws vary from state to state and in some cases city to city, I have studied and reviewed self defense laws while arguing self defense shootings, as well as for jurisdictions I live in/have lived in, and have traveled to, and I've got to say in all the states I've visited or lived in, in the last 5 years i doubt you'd go to jail if you killed an attacker while you were unarmed. people die in 'fist fights' regularly, and they'd have to prove your intent was to kill the aggressor, or that you did the technique after the aggressor attempted to disengage.

but I'm not a lawyer, just read a lot of self defense laws, and case law (particularly massad ayoob in regards to firearms, self defense, and the court system.)

But in the end would you rather be crippled for life possibly dead, or go to jail for a year or two for manslaughter at worst, with the possibility of getting out early with good behavior?

A trained TMA and I mean properly trained (Professional or Military Type) under civil law and pretty much goes for anyone really.

Is founded on laws of limitations based on "Reasonable Proportionality" or just and reasonable force applied in the act of self defense.

Where for example if you were punched in the face you can punch back and subdue the assailant but not exceed any further action or bodily harm if you were being robbed and house broken into etc.....

Even then its still weighed on the balances and you need eye witnesses in your favor.

Therefore as I said earlier you are limited by law......... only allowing yourself a way of escape or protection, not the license to take life or with intent to cause bodily harm.

Only in War and even then military laws come into the equation as well.

You need the permission by a squad commander or other senior in command to execute your target on site prior to engagement, but for civilians best NOT to engage or entertain such ideas.

 

[FighterTwister]

If you watch the karate kumites, none of them freaking uses anything that resembles blocks that they teach and practice day after day...

Especially, against a knifed opponent, can you imagine trying to downblock a knife?

I can understand the rational behind teaching these movements and I'm sure that they may have been more effect against ranged weapon, as I think karate was really originated to be able to defend themselves against a armed opponents, like a samurai, but it's kinda funny how like no one uses them in karate competition, whether its jka, taekwondo or kyokushin.

There are some old Youtube examples of guys throwing center mass punches and blocks and closing the gap.

However, I always see more the fear the emotional aspect or hesitation of the fight engagement as the more prevailing reason as to why this is not seen. (Confidence)

Many just want to score or gain a head kick and claim that as a win. (Point Scoring or KO)

This is also why I share my opinions that it should be more about perfecting the techniques and then in at the right instance use the hands.

Good old Chuck and many others I cant find right now were good at throwing punches and using blocks......

 

[JohnPJones]

A trained TMA and I mean properly trained (Professional or Military Type) under civil law and pretty much goes for anyone really.

Is founded on laws of limitations based on "Reasonable Proportionality" or just and reasonable force applied in the act of self defense.

Where for example if you were punched in the face you can punch back and subdue the assailant but not exceed any further action or bodily harm if you were being robbed and house broken into etc.....

Even then its still weighed on the balances and you need eye witnesses in your favor.

Therefore as I said earlier you are limited by law......... only allowing yourself a way of escape or protection, not the license to take life or with intent to cause bodily harm.

Only in War and even then military laws come into the equation as well.

You need the permission by a squad commander or other senior in command to execute your target on site prior to engagement, but for civilians best NOT to engage or entertain such ideas.

personal weapons (fists feet elbows etc) are all viewed the same, and an unarmed strike is an unarmed strike whether its a punch to the face, or an elbow to the base of the skull. it would take a good prosecutor and a bad defense lawyer to land you in jail for the outcome of unarmed self defense as long as you stop when the threat stops.

as a navy veteran and one of my ship's counter terrorism SMEs I'm quite familiar with use of force.

 

[Tayski]

But in the end would you rather be crippled for life possibly dead, or go to jail for a year or two for manslaughter at worst, with the possibility of getting out early with good behavior?

How about neither? Because you know, that's also an option, which goes back to my point where you can just put someone to sleep with techniques which are proven to work in sport environments and you don't need "lethal deadly techniques" from some obscure master for that.

 

[FighterTwister]

@JohnPJones

O/T - Point really is you are stuffed if you get into an altercation under unsanctioned fights....

I just Googled this.......... https://www.google.com/search?q=bou...+attack&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b-ab

Yeah military is interesting and has its own bla, bla.... sad really but they are the guys protecting us so humble respect, and thats the point I'm making.

Am I not making any sense, my grammar is not that bad well I hope not

 

[FighterTwister]

Also to reply or address first post.

Not so much Karate but relevance in transition to UFC type application in linear fighting.

I thought Conor did a great job at better interpreting linear distance and engaging in punches in the DAIZ II fight as an example to my earlier reply.

Where understanding distance, range and tactical advantage using various leg kicks and parry's to gain punching advantage and using other tools to close in.

That is the element that is missing from most Karate tournaments........... I think being better prepared knowing your opponent and understanding yourself.

If you like this stuff you learn and absorb and repeat as valued lessons to take and apply to your end game, its that fighter IQ stuff, I think is missing in Karate Tournaments.

Or personal interpretation and expression the freedom the zone whatever you want to call it when you are relaxed honed in and just in your element.

 

[JohnPJones]

How about neither? Because you know, that's also an option, which goes back to my point where you can just put someone to sleep with techniques which are proven to work in sport environments and you don't need "lethal deadly techniques" from some obscure master for that.

theres a huge difference between a sporting environment with strict rules and where you know the other person’s intent and a referee to make sure things don’t go too far, and out in the world where there are no rules and you don’t know the other person’s intent, and no guarantee anyone will intervene on your behalf if things start going poorly for you.

But if you put someone to sleep your just as likely to get in legal trouble as if you kill them. Either way an over zealous prosecutor will come after you.

Don’t get me wrong I’m not advocating trying to kill someone for every little bar scuffle, or if your neighbor gets mad and tries to tackle you because he’s mad about a property dispute or something, but there are situations that may require it.

 

[babycart]

I'm not sure if you are replying to my comment or simply adding to it as a tangent to another discussion.

Basically, humans learn violence by modelling. That's why we have kata and such. That's why prizefighting/combat sports are spectator sports. That's why in a war, a leader must sometimes lead the charge himself (at the same time the old duty of the sergeant: killing deserters). We model what we see working (deserting a seemingly losing fight makes one survive, that's why when one leaves others follow).

And that's the problem of TMAs. They model certain persons who shun CONTROLLED violence while claiming that they can survive and triumph in UNCONTROLLED violence but don't participate in it or participate by using other methods (e.g. using firearms while claiming that his H2H is the real deal). That's like saying that one is able to win F1 races but doesn't drive around the city (and has no observable record of doing so).

All these stuff about virtues in MA lies on a foundation of VIOLENCE. In basic existence, to be able to eat you have to be violent (aka kill your own food). To survive and avoid getting eaten, you have to be violent (making your predators into food). Virtues will be nothing if one gets eaten. These people with no verifiable re cord in violence spouting virtues in MA while shunning prizefighting are scammers. Why? What is a better proof of effective methods of violence (which is basically the primary point of martial arts) than previous records of these methods working in front of witnesses?

And please tell: is UNCONTROLLED violence where weapons and reinforcements can pop out of nowhere easier than CONTROLLED violence where there is an assured absence of handheld weapons, reinforcements, ground obstacles, etc. and also assures one's survival in case of surrender? Then why do these jokers shun CONTROLLED VIOLENCE? And claim they are effective in UNCONTROLLED violence?

These shitfaces are just taking people on a ride. They hide behind platitudes of martial virtues and grandiose titles in a relatively peaceful society. But when violence flares up, these shitfaces will be the first ones to fuck up, and their students will be left holding the bag. That's why it's a very good idea to test one's shit before shit happens, but these shitfaces frown on that cuz that will expose the lie they perpetuate...

 

[JohnPJones]

Basically, humans learn violence by modelling. That's why we have kata and such. That's why prizefighting/combat sports are spectator sports. That's why in a war, a leader must sometimes lead the charge himself (at the same time the old duty of the sergeant: killing deserters). We model what we see working (deserting a seemingly losing fight makes one survive, that's why when one leaves others follow).

And that's the problem of TMAs. They model certain persons who shun CONTROLLED violence while claiming that they can survive and triumph in UNCONTROLLED violence but don't participate in it or participate by using other methods (e.g. using firearms while claiming that his H2H is the real deal). That's like saying that one is able to win F1 races but doesn't drive around the city (and has no observable record of doing so).

All these stuff about virtues in MA lies on a foundation of VIOLENCE. In basic existence, to be able to eat you have to be violent (aka kill your own food). To survive and avoid getting eaten, you have to be violent (making your predators into food). Virtues will be nothing if one gets eaten. These people with no verifiable re cord in violence spouting virtues in MA while shunning prizefighting are scammers. Why? What is a better proof of effective methods of violence (which is basically the primary point of martial arts) than previous records of these methods working in front of witnesses?

And please tell: is UNCONTROLLED violence where weapons and reinforcements can pop out of nowhere easier than CONTROLLED violence where there is an assured absence of handheld weapons, reinforcements, ground obstacles, etc. and also assures one's survival in case of surrender? Then why do these jokers shun CONTROLLED VIOLENCE? And claim they are effective in UNCONTROLLED violence?

These shitfaces are just taking people on a ride. They hide behind platitudes of martial virtues and grandiose titles in a relatively peaceful society. But when violence flares up, these shitfaces will be the first ones to fuck up, and their students will be left holding the bag. That's why it's a very good idea to test one's shit before shit happens, but these shitfaces frown on that cuz that will expose the lie they perpetuate...

No one here is arguing with you about the need for heavy and full contact sparring, as for TMAs not having any record in competitions of controlled violence, i know you mean full contact but point sparring is still controlled violence, and kyokushin, despite me not liking their rules is heavy/full contact as well, but aside from that knowing your specific point is MMA type sparring and fighting, we already know there are several MMA fighters with advanced ranks in traditional martial arts, so i guess i'm not really sure what you're trying to get at other than what is likely universally accepted on this forum that there are loads of scammers in the TMA world (whether intentional or unintentional) but bashing TMA practitioners who are actively training for and engaging in heavy/full contact sparring or competitions because you don't like 90% of the people who claim to practice the same art is kind of stupid.

 

[JohnPJones]

This issue exactly is what bugs me deeply!

People think that a sport under a rule set ( Rules, Regulations and Restrictions) is M.A aka MMA.

No.......... its not thats UFC making money out of it LoL..... Dana White was smart $$$$$$$$

Absolutely clueless of what real martial art is and I mean those who pay the price day in and day out conditioning and perfecting their art seriously with many hours of hard dedication conditioning their bodies making their bodies like weapon a bar of steel.

Thing is people today being 2018 have not see this in person up front.

I have and its for real its no where near MMA but far beyond a sport thats why they are called "Killing Arts"!

Not the many McDojos of today and I have seen many handing out Black Belts like Big Macs.

White washing and watering down the essence of true martial art skill, ability and teachings.............in the view that MMA is reality..... no its just a brawl.

Put a high ranked Martial Artist young, fast, agile, and willing and able to read a fight intelligently is more than a brawl, but we live in the modern world you go to prison in the reality of things.

That is why I say, you got to have a healthy respect, a personal passion or appreciation to learn, practice and master TMA for what it truly is, as its not a game or a sport but the real thing.

Its rare thing and usually found in those in High Rank practicing various deadly and illegal techniques that can not be used in sports combat but only because they love the M.A as a way of life a labor of love.

Were these people instruct privately military, police and other law enforcement branches real tactics and strategies of fighting or aka Killing Arts.

Its a personal thing like running a triathlon you got to have a healthy respect for it and an appreciation for it!

But you would think in this forum even just online anywhere there would be this view and understanding, it is surprising to see the level of ignorance and stupidity by people with their poor replies posting everywhere on forums and even going as far as provoking real teachers and those who publicly run online businesses and demonstrations.

Only to be met by these juvenile idiots that should see the inside of a prison cell first before making pathetic online posts provoking Sifu's and Sensi's online.

What type of person is it that pays to see a fight eating Big Macs and has no clue or depth of understanding what they are actually observing, simply lazy and ignorant people that have never seen the inside of a Kwoon or a Dojo and actually made a commitment to even learn about at least one true TMA to gain insight.

Poor lost souls, they would be better donating that money to a good cause.

However this picture sums it up so well.......

i am not a fan of this picture because in my experience 99% of TMA schools are absolute shit. they preach self defense but only do light contact point sparring at the best (the level of contact in the first karate kid would be an improvement for most i've seen), and there's absolutely nothing wrong with 4 things under the 'mma fighter' whats the difference between cage fighting and a traditional ring? what's wrong with ground and pound? it's part of okinawan karate. fighting especially for self defense will likely be barbaric, bloody, and brutal.

as for the last one on each the term master, imho it is pretentious as all get out. i got curious and tried googling when someone becomes a master, and it really just kind of varies from style to style and then from organization to organization. i'm a yondan with over 15 years of training behind me, am i a master? i don't think so. as my sensei often said, you're only a master when you have nothing left to learn, and as long as you live you'll have something to learn. also the late shihan roseberry a 10th dan in go ju and 9th dan in judo also never accepted or used the title of master...it's a silly useless western word for eastern martial arts.

 

[babycart]

No one here is arguing with you about the need for heavy and full contact sparring, as for TMAs not having any record in competitions of controlled violence, i know you mean full contact but point sparring is still controlled violence, and kyokushin, despite me not liking their rules is heavy/full contact as well, but aside from that knowing your specific point is MMA type sparring and fighting, we already know there are several MMA fighters with advanced ranks in traditional martial arts, so i guess i'm not really sure what you're trying to get at other than what is likely universally accepted on this forum that there are loads of scammers in the TMA world (whether intentional or unintentional) but bashing TMA practitioners who are actively training for and engaging in heavy/full contact sparring or competitions because you don't like 90% of the people who claim to practice the same art is kind of stupid.

My previous post was basically responding to this:

This issue exactly is what bugs me deeply!

People think that a sport under a rule set ( Rules, Regulations and Restrictions) is M.A aka MMA.

No.......... its not thats UFC making money out of it LoL..... Dana White was smart $$$$$$$$

Absolutely clueless of what real martial art is and I mean those who pay the price day in and day out conditioning and perfecting their art seriously with many hours of hard dedication conditioning their bodies making their bodies like weapon a bar of steel.

Thing is people today being 2018 have not see this in person up front.

I have and its for real its no where near MMA but far beyond a sport thats why they are called "Killing Arts"!

Not the many McDojos of today and I have seen many handing out Black Belts like Big Macs.

White washing and watering down the essence of true martial art skill, ability and teachings.............in the view that MMA is reality..... no its just a brawl.

Put a high ranked Martial Artist young, fast, agile, and willing and able to read a fight intelligently is more than a brawl, but we live in the modern world you go to prison in the reality of things.

That is why I say, you got to have a healthy respect, a personal passion or appreciation to learn, practice and master TMA for what it truly is, as its not a game or a sport but the real thing.

Its rare thing and usually found in those in High Rank practicing various deadly and illegal techniques that can not be used in sports combat but only because they love the M.A as a way of life a labor of love.

Were these people instruct privately military, police and other law enforcement branches real tactics and strategies of fighting or aka Killing Arts.

Its a personal thing like running a triathlon you got to have a healthy respect for it and an appreciation for it!

But you would think in this forum even just online anywhere there would be this view and understanding, it is surprising to see the level of ignorance and stupidity by people with their poor replies posting everywhere on forums and even going as far as provoking real teachers and those who publicly run online businesses and demonstrations.

Only to be met by these juvenile idiots that should see the inside of a prison cell first before making pathetic online posts provoking Sifu's and Sensi's online.

What type of person is it that pays to see a fight eating Big Macs and has no clue or depth of understanding what they are actually observing, simply lazy and ignorant people that have never seen the inside of a Kwoon or a Dojo and actually made a commitment to even learn about at least one true TMA to gain insight.

Poor lost souls, they would be better donating that money to a good cause.

However this picture sums it up so well.......

The word tenacity is interesting used above meaning.........

TENACITY

/tɪˈnasɪti/
noun
noun: tenacity

1. the quality or fact of being able to grip something firmly; grip.
   "the sheer tenacity of the limpet"
   synonyms: persistence, pertinacity, determination, perseverance, doggedness, tenaciousness, single-mindedness, strength of will, firmness of purpose, strength of purpose, fixity of purpose, bulldog spirit, tirelessness, indefatigability, resolution, resoluteness, resolve, firmness, patience, purposefulness, staunchness, steadfastness, constancy, staying power, application, diligence, assiduity, sedulousness, insistence, relentlessness, inexorability, inexorableness, implacability, inflexibility; More
   stubbornness, intransigence, obstinacy, obduracy, obdurateness;
   Sitzfleisch;
   informalstickability;
   informalstick-to-it-iveness;
   rarecontinuance, perseveration
   "the tenacity with which he stuck to his story"
   antonyms: irresolution, lack of resolve
   • the quality or fact of being very determined; determination.
     "you have to admire the tenacity of these two guys"
   • the quality or fact of continuing to exist; persistence.
     "the tenacity of certain myths within the historical record"

I just wanna know when was the last time these killing arts killed somebody and was properly verified and documented.

At the same time, it's the majority that defines the "something." A style in which 90% of its practitioners are goof-offs defines that style, even though one or a few of its practitioners do MMA. Why? It's because the venue where they learned of the where, when and why of violence wasn't in their parent art, it's in the MMA ring.

There are many schools that teach driving out there. But only while racing one can learn the where, when and why of doing certain things while going 200 mph. Same with violence.