Karate Combat - new org, not exactly kickboxing, not quite MMA

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Anyone heard of this?

It's a new organization that basically takes karate point-fighters and drops them into a setting where the fighting is continuous and full-contact. Rules-wise it's a strange creature, because certain techniques that would be allowed in K-1 or MT are not allowed here, but there are other things that are allowed that make it kind of like MMA.

From some things I've read it seems at this time the rules are still in flux but just by watching the first event here's what I gleaned:

Punches and kicks can be delivered full-contact. Kicks are allowed to the head and body, as well as to the the legs but ONLY below the knee (presumably this is to give them the ability to do their leg sweeps). I read that knees are not allowed, but this may change? Also, takedowns are allowed but no wrestling on the ground. Once your opponent has been taken down then you have 5 seconds to GnP them but ONLY from a standing position. You can't follow them to the ground. Kicks are not allowed to a grounded fighter but the grounded fighter can upkick their opponent.

What it seems like they did here was ask the question, "What would WKF karate sparring look like if it were continuous and full-contact?" and they created this org to answer that question. I will give them credit for creating something that looks and feels unique, though I don't think it's going to be for everyone. Like I said, they seem to still be ironing things out so I expect changes to be made over the next year or so as they come to a final design for the product.

The guys involved look like they're still getting used to fighting full-contact and are finding their footing, but it's early days so I won't hold that against them.

The first real event (they did a pre-season event earlier on) went down recently in Miami. Bas Rutten did commentary. Luke Rockhold was also in attendance.

Here's one of the fights from the event:





Full event:


 
This is awesome and gives me flashbacks to American Kickboxing. I wish American Kickboxing hadn't faded away. That was an amazing style that should have been preserved.
 
I heard about it after Bas Rutten was on the Joe Rogan Podcast; it sounds like a work in progress but I'm still pretty interested. I've seen complaints about there being too many rules but I don't think you can expect an organisation promoting karate to put on muay thai style fights, some of the rules might be unnecessary but I'm not too concerned with restrictions if they're in keeping with karate tradition.
 
This is awesome and gives me flashbacks to American Kickboxing. I wish American Kickboxing hadn't faded away. That was an amazing style that should have been preserved.

Agreed!

It's a shame that K-1 and MT basically put American Kickboxing out of business.

It offered a cool ruleset that often resulted in some very fun fights and we also saw a lot of kicking displays that you just don't really see in modern kickboxing.

I would like to say that one day we could see a widespread return of its popularity but I can't say I'm actually hopeful about it.

Here's one of my favorite highlights from that era. Amazing kicks!





Speaking of kicks, if you liked that then you just HAVE to watch this one too.


 
I heard about it after Bas Rutten was on the Joe Rogan Podcast; it sounds like a work in progress but I'm still pretty interested.

Yeah, definitely a work in progress. Provided the organization survives, I think the next year or so is going to be spent really ironing out the rules and the style of the show.

One thing seems to have already changed. If you watch the fight I posted in the OP and then watch this one then you'll notice a distinct style change in the way they are shot and edited. The one in the OP (filmed later) looks pretty conventional, this one is shot more like a movie. Even though it looks cool, the cinematic format makes it harder to follow the action so I guess they decided to abandon it.



I've seen complaints about there being too many rules but I don't think you can expect an organisation promoting karate to put on muay thai style fights, some of the rules might be unnecessary but I'm not too concerned with restrictions if they're in keeping with karate tradition.

Here's the thing. . . If you want it to look just like K-1 or an MT fight then just go watch that. I get the impression that these guys are trying to create something with its own identity and also something that preserves the karate roots of the fighters.

While the ruleset is fairly restrictive, you still have full-contact striking on the feet with face punches allowed (unlike most full-contact karate), takedowns allowed, a kind of GnP. . . That's not bad.

Right now everyone is a legitimate black belt in some karate style and has a documented history of karate competition. As I see it, this is an organization for karate point fighters to continue to compete in a manner similar to what they've done before, but in essence to graduate to the next level, which is continuous full-contact fighting. It gives them somewhere to be that still resides distinctly inside the world of karate.

I like it.
 
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Some of the rules are shitty. I think they have a no hooks or something stupid. I don't know what qualifies one to fight here, but a legitimate kickboxing would wreck a lot of these dudes in this rule set.

I still think the best stand up to watch is shootboxing.
 
Some of the rules are shitty. I think they have a no hooks or something stupid.

That's not true because in the fight in the OP the guy KOs his opponent with a hook.

I don't know what qualifies one to fight here, but a legitimate kickboxing would wreck a lot of these dudes in this rule set.

To fight in Karate Combat you have to actually be a karateka. I know this much. It's a karate org specifically for karate guys. More specifically it seems to be for guys with point karate backgrounds who are transitioning to full-contact.

I figure it goes without saying that an experienced kickboxer would beat most of these guys, and probably fairly easily in many cases. But I think most of these guys are new to full-contact so is that even worth saying?

However, I do think a kickboxer would have trouble with someone like Rafael Aghayev. Not sure if you're familiar with him but even in point karate he was known for winning fights via takedowns and strikes to his downed opponent. That's legal in Karate Combat so it could be a long night for the kickboxer who just keeps getting taken down and GnP'd over and over.


 
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a legitimate kickboxing would wreck a lot of these dudes in this rule set.

Karate is a very effective style (as we've seen in MMA), so I'm glad there is an effort to bring it out of the mire of point fighting. If this gains enough popularity and there is time for the sport to mature, I'm sure you will see some very serious talent emerge.
 
That's not true because in the fight in the OP the guy KOs his opponent with a hook.




3) Allowed techniques a) Arm techniques i) Straight punch (Kizami tzuki, gyaku tzuki) ii) Back fist strike (Uraken uchi – must be a round technique) iii) Ridge hand strike (Haito uchi – open hand, round technique) iv) Roundhouse Punch (Mawashi tsuki) v) Hammer hand strike (Tetzui uchi – must be a round technique, the face cannot be attacked from the front) vi) Spinning back fist (Uraken uchi – must be a round technique) vii) Flying karate techniques b) Foot techniques i) Straight kicks (Mae geri, yoko geri) ii) Round kicks (Mawashi geri, ura mawashi geri, mikatzuki geri – must be a round kick) iii) Spinning kicks (Ushiro geri, ushiro ura mawashi geri – must be a round kick) iv) Jumping kicks (Any kick mentioned above with a jump)

Round house punch is not a hook, the hook is for all purposes short and not allowed or something stupid. Obviously it's up to the referees discretion.

I also had to look up what a ridge hand strike was. That looks like a good way to break your shit.

Edit: The geek in your video leaves his chin out begging to get smashed and he leaves it out while moving forward. What the fuck


Karate is a very effective style (as we've seen in MMA), so I'm glad there is an effort to bring it out of the mire of point fighting. If this gains enough popularity and there is time for the sport to mature, I'm sure you will see some very serious talent emerge.


We've seen Karate practitioners successful in MMA who have adapted accordingly. Traditional western kickboxing is by far the most suited though.
 
They should name it either Combrate, or Karabat
 
3) Allowed techniques a) Arm techniques i) Straight punch (Kizami tzuki, gyaku tzuki) ii) Back fist strike (Uraken uchi – must be a round technique) iii) Ridge hand strike (Haito uchi – open hand, round technique) iv) Roundhouse Punch (Mawashi tsuki) v) Hammer hand strike (Tetzui uchi – must be a round technique, the face cannot be attacked from the front) vi) Spinning back fist (Uraken uchi – must be a round technique) vii) Flying karate techniques b) Foot techniques i) Straight kicks (Mae geri, yoko geri) ii) Round kicks (Mawashi geri, ura mawashi geri, mikatzuki geri – must be a round kick) iii) Spinning kicks (Ushiro geri, ushiro ura mawashi geri – must be a round kick) iv) Jumping kicks (Any kick mentioned above with a jump)

Round house punch is not a hook, the hook is for all purposes short and not allowed or something stupid. Obviously it's up to the referees discretion.

I also had to look up what a ridge hand strike was. That looks like a good way to break your shit.

I read somewhere that hooks were not originally allowed but they have decided to allow them.

In any case, I've watched the entire event and seen all manner of strikes thrown. No one got penalized for throwing the wrong kind of punch.

Edit: The geek in your video leaves his chin out begging to get smashed and he leaves it out while moving forward. What the fuck

Starting to think you just came in here to be a dick.

That geek in the video would have a field day tossing kickboxers on their heads.
 
I read somewhere that hooks were not originally allowed but they have decided to allow them.

In any case, I've watched the entire event and seen all manner of strikes thrown. No one got penalized for throwing the wrong kind of punch.



Starting to think you just came in here to be a dick.

That geek in the video would have a field day tossing kickboxers on their heads.

That's good they aren't penalizing punches. That's a positive in my eyes.

That dudes a geek because he shows everything that's wrong with Karate. It's like Katsunori Kikuno. Just leaving his head out to be taken off. Guys who do it right, like Horiguchi, protect themselves. It's the same reason why Machida fell off so fast. Guys who keep their head up and on the center line will eventually get blasted into unconsciousness. It's why Shogun's primitive approach to the Machida fights were so effective. Protect your chin on the penetrating punch, react and move forward. It's been a boxing fundamental since forever. You can gain more ground moving forward than the opponent can moving backwards.

I also want this to be successful because I want Kudo to be more popular. Maybe this could be a professional version of it.
 
Karate is a very effective style (as we've seen in MMA), so I'm glad there is an effort to bring it out of the mire of point fighting. If this gains enough popularity and there is time for the sport to mature, I'm sure you will see some very serious talent emerge.

I think point fighting has its place. Machida and Thompson wouldn't be the fighters they are today without it. It leads to the development of a lot of useful skills.

But yeah, I do think that there needs to be another level that guys can go to after that without leaving the sport of karate. Especially with takedowns allowed, if Karate Combat survives then it should begin producing some surprisingly versatile fighters.

What I like is that they're keeping it karate but allowing the fighters to use almost ALL of karate. For instance, throws exist in many karate systems but are often mostly (or entirely) neglected in your typical karate school. Same goes for clinch fighting and the like. There are techniques for this in the kata but karate is often taught only as a long-range fighting art.
 
That dudes a geek because he shows everything that's wrong with Karate. It's like Katsunori Kikuno. Just leaving his head out to be taken off. Guys who do it right, like Horiguchi, protect themselves. It's the same reason why Machida fell off so fast. Guys who keep their head up and on the center line will eventually get blasted into unconsciousness. It's why Shogun's primitive approach to the Machida fights were so effective. Protect your chin on the penetrating punch, react and move forward. It's been a boxing fundamental since forever. You can gain more ground moving forward than the opponent can moving backwards.

I think every martial art has its strengths and weaknesses. I'm not going to argue that karate is perfect or doesn't have flaws. But it's like anything else, these guys train for the ruleset under which they compete, which up until recently has been in WKF karate tournaments. Sometimes what is successful in a WKF tournament doesn't translate especially well to other rulesets, but that is what is successful for those kinds of competitions.

As for Machida falling off, I think he fell off largely due to age and fighting dudes who were either younger, faster and bigger and/or were a freak of nature like Yoel. I'm sure there's also a bit of being "figured out" in there as well.

But it was only a few years ago when he beat Mousasi

I also want this to be successful because I want Kudo to be more popular. Maybe this could be a professional version of it.

Well if you like Kudo then I'd think you'd be less critical of other karate styles. I like kudo too and have even looked for schools in my area, but there's no question that it's often less technical karate and more "let me bang, bro" karate. The space helmets lead to a lot of brawling.
 
It’s cool as fuck and really lets traditional MA shine. 10/10 stoked on it
 
I think every martial art has its strengths and weaknesses. I'm not going to argue that karate is perfect or doesn't have flaws. But it's like anything else, these guys train for the ruleset under which they compete, which up until recently has been in WKF karate tournaments. Sometimes what is successful in a WKF tournament doesn't translate especially well to other rulesets, but that is what is successful for those kinds of competitions.

As for Machida falling off, I think he fell off largely due to age and fighting dudes who were either younger, faster and bigger and/or were a freak of nature like Yoel. I'm sure there's also a bit of being "figured out" in there as well.

But it was only a few years ago when he beat Mousasi



Well if you like Kudo then I'd think you'd be less critical of other karate styles. I like kudo too and have even looked for schools in my area, but there's no question that it's often less technical karate and more "let me bang, bro" karate. The space helmets lead to a lot of brawling.

Traditional Kyokushin where they use closed fists is a lot of inside fighting and brawling. You lose technique in an actual fight. It was limited but competition for it is whack. Can't punch to the head so it's dudes who just punch at each others bodies with shit technique because they have no reason to show a mix up.

Kudo to me is like the Japanese version of Combat Sambo. Needs to be popularized.
 
Traditional Kyokushin where they use closed fists is a lot of inside fighting and brawling. You lose technique in an actual fight. It was limited but competition for it is whack. Can't punch to the head so it's dudes who just punch at each others bodies with shit technique because they have no reason to show a mix up.

Kudo to me is like the Japanese version of Combat Sambo. Needs to be popularized.

Well like I said, I like Kudo. I went through phase a while back where I was really looking into it but then I realized there was no chance of me learning it without packing up and moving elsewhere so I began looking at other styles.

Regarding Kyokushin, I don't like the no face punching thing, and think it's a serious problem really, but that's when I just remind myself that it's a sport. There's no face punching in basketball either, but basketball is still cool.

I dunno. I try to avoid the style-vs-style debates and respect any martial art that's not obvious bullshit, like monkey kung-fu or whatever. I like old shiny pants American Kickboxing but of course you have your contingent of people who talk shit because there are no knees or low kicks and whatnot.

(As an aside, the weird thing about this debate is how boxing always gets a pass even though it's nothing but hands. No other strikes allowed.)

Anyway, since you like Kudo, here's a particularly brutal moment at a guy's 2nd Dan test. Not sure why but this has always stuck with me. It's certainly intense for a belt testing. The whole video is pretty interesting.

Timestamped:

 
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Traditional western kickboxing is by far the most suited though.

This is certainly debatable. For example, Muay Thai-based striking has limited footwork and a squared stance whereas karate-based striking has a wider, sturdier base and uses footwork much more. There's a reason why the best karate guys, like Thompson and Machida, have stellar takedown defense.
 
I like the idea. It’s a fast paced striking competiton where you still get a chance to hurt a grounded opponent for a short period. Karate Combat can definitely attract a fan base that wants to watch striking but thinks the ground game in MMA is too boring and that the gloves in kickboxing are too big.

Bas talked about the fact the rules are evolving since it is in the early stages. I’m glad that hooks are now allowed when they originally were not. I hope this organization stays around for a while.
 
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