Karate Combat - new org, not exactly kickboxing, not quite MMA

[Guestx]

I like the idea. It’s a fast paced striking competiton where you still get a chance to hurt a grounded opponent for a short period. Karate Combat can definitely attract a fan base that wants to watch striking but thinks the ground game in MMA is too boring and that the gloves in kickboxing are too big.

Bas talked about the fact the rules are evolving since it is in the early stages. I’m glad that hooks are now allowed when they originally were not. I hope this organization stays around for a while.

Glad to see some positivity for Karate Combat.

As you say, it's a pretty fast-paced striking competition. I think three of the four fights in their Miami event were first or second-round finishes, if I'm remembering correctly.

What I am most interested in is if they make any changes involving the rules around takedowns. They definitely slow the action, which frankly can make things a bit dull, but I like the idea of takedowns allowed as a whole and think they should keep that in place.

I mentioned Rafael Aghayev earlier. 5x WKF karate champion. He competed in the org's pre-season event and won largely on takedowns.

Here's the vid if anyone is curious. (Warning: This was from the first event where fights were shot and edited like a movie so some of the camera angles are pretty weird.)

 

[Bamboozled]

This is certainly debatable. For example, Muay Thai-based striking has limited footwork and a squared stance whereas karate-based striking has a wider, sturdier base and uses footwork much more. There's a reason why the best karate guys, like Thompson and Machida, have stellar takedown defense.

Muay Thai is bastardized for it's own sport too. The elbows and clinch work are what it's great for. Leg kicks too. The punches in Muay Thai are a joke for the most part. But adapting a system to MMA I think Western Kickboxing does fairly well. The issue with Karateka stance is that it's pretty linear, while it's good for defending takedowns undoubtedly there is more room to make up when turning opposition.

 

[Deleted member 391673]

Anyone heard of this?

It's a new organization that basically takes karate point-fighters and drops them into a setting where the fighting is continuous and full-contact. Rules-wise it's a strange creature, because certain techniques that would be allowed in K-1 or MT are not allowed here, but there are other things that are allowed that make it kind of like MMA.

From some things I've read it seems at this time the rules are still in flux but just by watching the first event here's what I gleaned:

Punches and kicks can be delivered full-contact. Kicks are allowed to the head and body, as well as to the the legs but ONLY below the knee (presumably this is to give them the ability to do their leg sweeps). I read that knees are not allowed, but this may change? Also, takedowns are allowed but no wrestling on the ground. Once your opponent has been taken down then you have 5 seconds to GnP them but ONLY from a standing position. You can't follow them to the ground. Kicks are not allowed to a grounded fighter but the grounded fighter can upkick their opponent.

What it seems like they did here was ask the question, "What would WKF karate sparring look like if it were continuous and full-contact?" and they created this org to answer that question. I will give them credit for creating something that looks and feels unique, though I don't think it's going to be for everyone. Like I said, they seem to still be ironing things out so I expect changes to be made over the next year or so as they come to a final design for the product.

The guys involved look like they're still getting used to fighting full-contact and are finding their footing, but it's early days so I won't hold that against them.

The first real event (they did a pre-season event earlier on) went down recently in Miami. Bas Rutten did commentary. Luke Rockhold was also in attendance.

Here's one of the fights from the event:





Full event:

interesting stuff

i like the style of the ring too.

didn't like that bald fuck trying to blast a KO'd fighter in the back of the head though. scum bag.

 

[Deleted member 391673]

Glad to see some positivity for Karate Combat.

As you say, it's a pretty fast-paced striking competition. I think three of the four fights in their Miami event were first or second-round finishes, if I'm remembering correctly.

What I am most interested in is if they make any changes involving the rules around takedowns. They definitely slow the action, which frankly can make things a bit dull, but I like the idea of takedowns allowed as a whole and think they should keep that in place.

I mentioned Rafael Aghayev earlier. 5x WKF karate champion. He competed in the org's pre-season event and won largely on takedowns.

Here's the vid if anyone is curious. (Warning: This was from the first event where fights were shot and edited like a movie so some of the camera angles are pretty weird.)

i enjoyed the movie-style production for the fight. that was pretty cool to see for an actual fight.

 

[Guestx]

i enjoyed the movie-style production for the fight. that was pretty cool to see for an actual fight.

It's definitely interesting. It's crazy how much like a movie the presentation really is, even though it's a real fight.

Considering they didn't do that for Inception (Genesis was called a "pre-season" event, a dry run basically) I'm wondering if it's just a one-and-done thing.

I'm not totally sure how I feel about it really. There were times where I thought it was cool and times I was irritated I was getting this weird close-up instead of a wide view of the action.

 

[Deleted member 391673]

It's definitely interesting. It's crazy how much like a movie the presentation really is, even though it's a real fight.

Considering they didn't do that for Inception (Genesis was called a "pre-season" event, a dry run basically) I'm wondering if it's just a one-and-done thing.

I'm not totally sure how I feel about it really. There were times where I thought it was cool and times I was irritated I was getting this weird close-up instead of a wide view of the action.

true. it also wasn't the best fight for that type of production since it had a lot of resets.
but it's an interesting concept because it really did feel like a jcvd combat movie almost.
i'd like to see a similar approach to a better fight, and of course have the fight available both ways (edited and unedited)

 

[TeenageMutantLesnarTurtle]

Its pretty fun. I like the cheesy larger than life 90s action movie presentation. Its nice to see karate showcased in a relatively accessible, casual friendly manner too.

 

[Guestx]

i'd like to see a similar approach to a better fight, and of course have the fight available both ways (edited and unedited)

There's another like that earlier in the thread. Here it is again if you missed it:

 

[Guestx]

Its pretty fun. I like the cheesy larger than life 90s action movie presentation.

Not sure if you watched the whole Inception event, but there's definitely some cheesy larger-than-life stuff going on there. They have the fighters arrive in Rolls-Royces (one dude even randomly enters from a yacht) and then walk through a field of supercars before arriving at the arena. It's kind of hilarious but sort of fun at the same time.

 

[Deleted member 391673]

There's another like that earlier in the thread. Here it is again if you missed it:

yeah, the production value is wild. it's interesting to see such a "filter" applied towards an actual fight.
the commentary is pretty good. a lil bit stiff and the chemistry hasn't developed yet, but i can see it getting better.

 

[Guestx]

yeah, the production value is wild. it's interesting to see such a "filter" applied towards an actual fight.
the commentary is pretty good. a lil bit stiff and the chemistry hasn't developed yet, but i can see it getting better.

Yeah, what I suspect is that the pre-season event was not broadcast live, so that allowed them to shoot it from a ton of angles and then edit it together after the fact, making sure to only use the close-ups when no significant action was happening. And then they color graded it to make it look especially cool and cinematic.

It's a very interesting approach.

No way they should try to do it live--we might miss the KO shot while there's a close-up on someone's fucking glove or something--but I think it would be interesting (as you alluded to earlier) for them to broadcast it more conventionally live, while shooting it with additional cameras at the same time for the later cinematic treatment. Since there is no "movie view" of the fights from the Inception event though I'm not sure if that was just a one-and-done approach or what.

All in all, the more I look into what Karate Combat is doing the more intrigued I am. I thought it was cool when I first saw it but I think it's growing on me even more and hope they find a way to make it stick around.

 

[gevoudane]

Why is the audience so small?

 

[Guestx]

Why is the audience so small?

I was wondering that too. It's the case at both the Genesis event and the Inception event.

They don't even provide a lot of seating for people so it seems like it might be some kind of aesthetic choice. The events almost look like they're by invitation or something since they don't take place at a conventional arena.

 

[Guestx]

Wow, cool org trailer! @LogicalFighting, you'll probably like this.





Here's another promo for the first Genesis event.

 

[Deleted member 391673]

Yeah, what I suspect is that the pre-season event was not broadcast live, so that allowed them to shoot it from a ton of angles and then edit it together after the fact, making sure to only use the close-ups when no significant action was happening. And then they color graded it to make it look especially cool and cinematic.

It's a very interesting approach.

No way they should try to do it live--we might miss the KO shot while there's a close-up on someone's fucking glove or something--but I think it would be interesting (as you alluded to earlier) for them to broadcast it more conventionally live, while shooting it with additional cameras at the same time for the later cinematic treatment. Since there is no "movie view" of the fights from the Inception event though I'm not sure if that was just a one-and-done approach or what.

All in all, the more I look into what Karate Combat is doing the more intrigued I am. I thought it was cool when I first saw it but I think it's growing on me even more and hope they find a way to make it stick around.

i agree.
the production value and execution of the product is actually way more refined than the ufc.
they can learn from it.
it'd be interesting to see that done with some ufc fights..

 

[Deleted member 391673]

Why is the audience so small?

I was wondering that too. It's the case at both the Genesis event and the Inception event.

They don't even provide a lot of seating for people so it seems like it might be some kind of aesthetic choice. The events almost look like they're by invitation or something since they don't take place at a conventional arena.

i think they said it's invite only in one of the videos.
it's got that lionheart feel to it

 

[Guestx]

i think they said it's invite only in one of the videos.
it's got that lionheart feel to it

I actually confirmed this. I have a contact who works for Black Belt magazine and he said the events were not open to the public. He also said that from what he gathered from his conversation with the people running Karate Combat that they also seem to be pretty knowledgeable and well-funded.

So the plan doesn't seem to be to make money from the gate, unless this is like some super-swanky elite kind of shit where the rich are willing to pay a lot of money to get in. And from what I understand they intend to air the events for free online, so PPV doesn't seem to be the strategy either. So that makes me wonder exactly what the business plan is here.

The whole thing is all-around mysterious.

 

[Guestx]

Where's @Hotora86?

 

[Guestx]

The official rules, at least as of today, for anyone who's interested:

https://www.karate.com/wp-content/u...act-karate-unified-rules-and-regulations-.pdf

 

[FierceRedBelt]

The official rules, at least as of today, for anyone who's interested:

https://www.karate.com/wp-content/u...act-karate-unified-rules-and-regulations-.pdf

14.XI - No uppercuts. As a sherdogger I can not support this decision.

It actually looks pretty cool in my opinion.