Ken Shamrock is back to NHB fighting

Discussion in 'Pro Wrestling Discussion' started by BeardotheWeirdo, Nov 2, 2018.

  1. Roukas

    Roukas Purple Belt

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    Shamrock got their in with KIMBO had huge power at like age 50 dude is the fucking man had him deep choke can't believe ref didn't stop it with no ground response
     
  2. M.A.G.A.

    M.A.G.A. White Belt

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    Professional Bar Fighting

    LOVE IT
     
  3. Brodels

    Brodels Low IQ Trump & Kavanaugh Supporter

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    Shut up dude I can go to this
     
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  4. mrsenor

    mrsenor Brown Belt

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  5. ThunderL1ps

    ThunderL1ps Black Belt

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    Which mod moved this to PW?
     
  6. savemgs

    savemgs Black Belt

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    In all seriousness that would be an amazing amount of draws...
     
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  7. Pliny Pete

    Pliny Pete Puts Butts In Seats

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    It belongs here since its a pro wrestling event
     
  8. Pliny Pete

    Pliny Pete Puts Butts In Seats

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    This is what this event is
    Its pro wrestling that takes place inside a bar instead of in a ring
    They fight all over the bar
    Its pretty cool to watch

     
  9. Thread

    Thread Im Da Best Mayne

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    I'm mildly curious to go watch this...but not motivated enough to go downtown for it.
     
  10. RichardPriors

    RichardPriors Yellow Belt

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    I suppose in large it all comes down to how one stands on Pancrase and the stock you put into those performances. I hold Pancrase and Ken's abilities there in very high regard. I would argue that he faced better competition than most of his contemporaries between 1993 and 1996 and that he already embodied the idea of what a mixed martial artist could be. My fondness of catch wrestling probably plays a part there as well. I guess the biggest knock against Ken would actually be that he struck out against his biggest rival, Ortiz. Which is a similar situation as the one DC is in.
     
  11. BeardotheWeirdo

    BeardotheWeirdo Silver Belt

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    Hi there old friend, glad to see you're still posting. I'll have to make it over to the Mayberry soon.
     
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  12. europe1

    europe1 It´s a nice peninsula to Asia

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    Good to see you back! I guess all those rumors about you being eaten alive by ravenous badgers were untrue after all.:D

    I'm now the Supreme-Leader of the Movie Club, btw. Took control in a bloodless coup. Sadly, this has not convinced the others to nominate more Italian films.:oops:
     
  13. BeardotheWeirdo

    BeardotheWeirdo Silver Belt

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    Well then, at the risk of having to watch more mind-bending sci-fi movies, I'll have to re-join the club.
     
  14. WarriorPoet1

    WarriorPoet1 Purple Belt

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    seems like one of those things he'd fight the local tough guy audience
     
  15. PolarBearPaulVarelans

    PolarBearPaulVarelans Blue Belt

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    I'm going off the skills Ken displayed in both Pancrase and the UFC, and how they compared to those of other fighters of the mid 90's (before his first retirement) as well as the early 2000's, when he came back.

    You called him "one of the absolute best to ever do it". Beyond the fact that none of the best fighters of the 90's would hold a candle to any GOOD fighter today, even in his heyday Ken was not the best.

    In Pancrase, he was the biggest regular competitor of his time and the only guy with a decent wrestling base. He was regularly fighting guys 20-30 pounds lighter than him (sometimes even more) who couldn't stop his takedown.

    He had already left Pancrase by the time Bas Rutten had learned grappling (and again, their much-vaunted second fight is known to be a work), or when Kondo, Mezger, and Schilt had showed up. (Granted, he would have a significant size advantage over the first two as well)

    His fights in the UFC reveal a limited fighter very much of his time.

    The 45 pound lighter Royce exposed the deficiencies of Ken's submission style from Pancrase (which lacked BJJ guys AS WELL AS wrestlers then), and while Ken would have won the rematch with judging, there's something to be said for being unable to submit or badly damage with ground-and-pound (which Ken was very poor at) a weaker fighter 45 pounds lighter than you in 36 minutes. And keep in mind head butts were legal back then, which Ken used liberally.

    Ditto for Oleg Taktarov, who was 15-20 pounds lighter and again, would have submitted Ken if not for a bad habit from sambo. I'm Russian, but I don't think sambo is such a good base. Nevertheless, it turns out Taktarov's submission abilities were at least as good as Ken's much-vaunted ones in that fight.

    Severn, despite being physically washed-up and extremely one-dimensional, was also a better fighter than Ken. The odd circumstances of their rematch likely favored Ken, if anyone.

    And Ken was smart to get out when he did. Mark Coleman, who he wisely avoided, would have smashed Ken to pieces. Don Frye in his prime would have won a far more convincing victory over that version of Shamrock than he did in the early 2000s, when both men had shot knees from pro wrestling and couldn't grapple, but Shamrock's striking had improved. Vitor Belfort would have certainly knocked Ken out quickly.

    A Maurice Smith who learned takedown defense would have beaten Ken, too.

    Now, I do think Ken would have beaten Tank Abbott and he would have probably won a boring decision against Marco Ruas. Gary Goodridge is a 50/50 match. Certainly, Goodridge can be beaten by lay-and-pray, which would be Ken's path to victory. However, Goodridge would also be the biggest, strongest guy with the best takedown defense that Ken would ever lay-and-pray if that were to occur.

    By the early 2000s, though? Forget about it. The best guys then were way beyond anything that either the 90's version of Ken or the early 2000's version of Ken was capable of.

    TLDR version- Again, I respect Ken as a pioneer, but his skills are very overstated.

    Not really. Again, Ken's striking back then was AWFUL. He was a decent wrestler with an old-school submission game and lousy GnP. (Mark Coleman is rightly considered the first guy with decent ground-and-pound, although it's notable that even Dan Severn, with his awful, awful striking, had more effective GnP than Ken did)

    The first grapplers who had striking were Marco Ruas (only with his leg kicks) and Don Frye (only with his punches). The first very good striker with significant grappling chops was Vitor Belfort.
     
  16. europe1

    europe1 It´s a nice peninsula to Asia

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    Whoa! Really? :eek:

    That's great! I'll announce you re-entry in the thread later tonight. There are a few old-faces but most people are new. We even replaced the old Serious Movie Discussion thread as the stickied thread, now we're top-dogs of the Mayberry!

    Think I'll use this gif:D

    [​IMG]
     
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  17. hillelslovak87

    hillelslovak87 Silver Belt

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    Kids today would be like "My grandpa told me a story about when Sakuraba knocked out Shamrock. He said Shamrock looked shot."
     
  18. chubbman

    chubbman Yellow Card

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    Not gonna lie, if it’s 10 juiced up old dudes in a free for all I’m watching.
     
  19. Sonny Qc

    Sonny Qc Gold Belt

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  20. BabyFacedAssassin

    BabyFacedAssassin Shitpost Belt Yellow Card

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    It’s worth a 3 hour flight so I might go
     
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