Kobe Bryant vs Hakeem Olajuwon

[gspieler]

Hakeem beat better teams in his championship years than Kobe did in his.

Barkley's Suns twice, arguably the best Knicks team ever with a prime Ewing, Malone & Stockton twice, an absolutely loaded Spurs team that everyone and their mom was picking to win the championship, a young Magic that was certainly on its way to being a dynasty.

That dismantling of league MVP David Robinson is unmatched

Stumbled across this too. In terms of post moves, Hakeem might be the GOAT. McHale, Barkley, and KAJ are also up there.

 

[Bay Area]

Hakeem beat better teams in his championship years than Kobe did in his.

Barkley's Suns twice, arguably the best Knicks team ever with a prime Ewing, Malone & Stockton twice, an absolutely loaded Spurs team that everyone and their mom was picking to win the championship, a young Magic that was certainly on its way to being a dynasty.

That dismantling of league MVP David Robinson is unmatched

I thought Robinson was going to kill himself... what with the way he got embarrassed in the post

 

[ThinkGreen]

It’s a super close one, but I’d put Hakeem slightly above Kobe.

 

[gspieler]

MJ
Magic
Wilt
KAJ
Bird
Shaq
Duncan
Lebron
Big O
Hakeem

Honorable mentions: Russel, Malone, Kobe

 

[HomerThompson]

Laughable thread.

 

[the ambush]

Hakeem beat better teams in his championship years than Kobe did in his.

Barkley's Suns twice, arguably the best Knicks team ever with a prime Ewing, Malone & Stockton twice, an absolutely loaded Spurs team that everyone and their mom was picking to win the championship, a young Magic that was certainly on its way to being a dynasty.

That dismantling of league MVP David Robinson is unmatched

I agree. I think the west was consistently better than the east of that generation. Let’s put it in proper perspective. The west was the Suns with Barkley, the Jazz with Malone & Stockton, the Rockets with Hakeem, the Spurs with the Admiral, and the Sonics with Payton. The east was of course the Bulls, the Knicks with Ewing, and the Magic with Shaq. We will not even worry about the #4.

 

[gspieler]

I agree. I think the west was consistently better than the east of that generation. Let’s put it in proper perspective. The west was the Suns with Barkley, the Jazz with Malone & Stockton, the Rockets with Hakeem, the Spurs with the Admiral, and the Sonics with Payton. The east was of course the Bulls, the Knicks with Ewing, and the Magic with Shaq. We will not even worry about the #4.

Reggie's Pacers were legit. They were the gatekeepers of the East(in an era when the east was good).

 

[Bay Area]

MJ
Magic
Wilt
Bird
KAJ
Shaq
Duncan
Lebron
Big O
Hakeem

Honorable mentions: Russel, Malone, Kobe

Lebron is lower than Bird and Magic? Bird is better than Kareem Abdul Jaber?

Explain yourself.

 

[gspieler]

Lebron is lower than Bird and Magic? Bird is better than Kareem Abdul Jaber?

Explain yourself.

IMO Magic clearly has a greater legacy than Lebron(at this point).

Bird vs Lebron is debatable. Statistically, it's about even, though Lebron might have a slight edge. It's also worth noting different eras have different cultures/rules/etc they can influence stats(which Lebron would benefit more from than Bird). IMO Bird wins via intangibles; leadership ability, clutchness, toughness, etc. This would an interesting matchup to analyze.

I'll give you Kareem over Bird. I should probably switch those two.

 

[Madmick]

LOL, I love how you try to juxtapose Kobe's two scoring titles to Hakeem's DPOYs as if those are equal in any fashion.

Kobe was a ballhogging chucker during those years. Let's look closer at his top scoring performance in any year:

• 35.2 points per game on 27.2 shots per game = 55.9% TS% (1.29 points per shot)
• 114 ORtg-- Points Per 100 Possessions
• #4 in Offensive Win Shares and #2 in OBPM (both behind Lebron)
• 45-37 Record; Finished 7th in the West
• 1st Round Playoff Exit

Same deal the following year with his other scoring title. 7th Seed, and 1st round exit to Phoenix.

Fucking loser stat. Not even the best offensive player in the league.

For context, as much as I loathe Harden, he shows Kobe how to carry a team with a 30+ ppg stat line that actually wins games:

• 61.9% TS% (1.51 points per shot)
• 120 ORtg -- Points Per 100 Possessions
• #1 Offensive Win Shares; #2 OBPM
• 65-17 Record; 1st in NBA
• Up 2-0 in Playoffs First Round

Lebron, Durant and Curry can all put up 26ppg-32ppg while still actually making shots and winning games: 62.1%, 64.0%, and 67.5%, respectively, in True Shooting this year.

 

[TheComebackKid]

LOL, I love how you try to juxtapose Kobe's two scoring titles to Hakeem's DPOYs as if those are equal in any fashion.

Kobe was a ballhogging chucker during those years. Let's look closer at his top scoring performance in any year:

• 35.2 points per game on 27.2 shots per game = 55.9% TS% (1.29 points per shot)
• 114 ORtg-- Points Per 100 Possessions
• #4 in Offensive Win Shares and #2 in OBPM (both behind Lebron)
• 45-37 Record; Finished 7th in the West
• 1st Round Playoff Exit

Same deal the following year with his other scoring title. 7th Seed, and 1st round exit to Phoenix.

Fucking loser stat. Not even the best offensive player in the league.

For context, as much as I loathe Harden, he shows Kobe how to carry a team with a 30+ ppg stat line that actually wins games:

• 61.9% TS% (1.51 points per shot)
• 120 ORtg -- Points Per 100 Possessions
• #1 Offensive Win Shares; #2 OBPM
• 65-17 Record; 1st in NBA
• Up 2-0 in Playoffs First Round

Lebron, Durant and Curry can all put up 26ppg-32ppg while still actually making shots and winning games: 62.1%, 64.0%, and 67.5%, respectively, in True Shooting this year.

Actually I was juxtaposing Kobe's scoring titles with Hakeems rebounding titles. The rest of my points stand.

 

[ProBoxingInsidr]

IMO Magic clearly has a greater legacy than Lebron(at this point).

Bird vs Lebron is debatable. Statistically, it's about even, though Lebron might have a slight edge. It's also worth noting different eras have different cultures/rules/etc they can influence stats(which Lebron would benefit more from than Bird). IMO Bird wins via intangibles; leadership ability, clutchness, toughness, etc. This would an interesting matchup to analyze.

I'll give you Kareem over Bird. I should probably switch those two.

wtf??!! didnt you see lebron's leadership tonight? they got a big lead so he coasted through the middle of the game. then he quit on his team when they were playing poorly. then he tried to get back in it at the end but decided he cant do it because he needs a big 3. his leadership will be AWESOME next year when he is on a team with other superstars

 

[Madmick]

Stumbled across this too. In terms of post moves, Hakeem might be the GOAT. McHale, Barkley, and KAJ are also up there.

Hakeem is easily regarded to have the greatest back-to-the-basket footwork and overall postgame skillset in the history of the sport.

 

[Lord Commander Palis]

All you have to do is look at Kobes yoffs stats when he played with Snaq to know that Kobe was a huge driving force in securing those rings.

I know most of you, especially Gay Area didn't watch bball back then, but who was the closer for the Lakers? Snaq or Kobe? GG case closed.

I love Hakeem but he don't got the hardware son and he definitely didn't carry Snaqs fat ass like Kobe did throughout the regular season and yoffs.

 

[gspieler]

All you have to do is look at Kobes yoffs stats when he played with Snaq to know that Kobe was a huge driving force in securing those rings.

I know most of you, especially Gay Area didn't watch bball back then, but who was the closer for the Lakers? Snaq or Kobe? GG case closed.

I love Hakeem but he don't got the hardware son and he definitely didn't carry Snaqs fat ass like Kobe did throughout the regular season and yoffs.

Kobe's stats got a bump because defenses they came up against were Shaq-oriented. Shaq opened up the floor in a way that particularly benefit a player like Kobe IMO.

Also, if Shaq was the MVP on the team 3.5/4 of the game, and they won, I'd argue Shaq is the MVP of the team.

 

[Lord Commander Palis]

Kobe's stats got a bump because defenses they came up against were Shaq-oriented. Shaq opened up the floor in a way that particularly benefit a player like Kobe IMO.

Also, if Shaq was the MVP on the team 3.5/4 of the game, and they won, I'd argue Shaq is the MVP of the team.

I guess the same could be said about Gasol and Kobe as defenses were Kobe-oriented yet Kobe STILL got his.

Fyi, ever play basketball? How long you been watching? The last quarter and more importantly crunch time is where it's at. Go research some games back then, especially in the playoffs, with Kobe taking over at the end at a much higher usage rate than Snaq. I've posted in detail here on this over the years and shut up the Kobe haters with relative ease because of this.

All the stats are there and let me say that Snaq was dominant as fuck but unless he got a easy dink and dunk from Kobe at the end of the game (ball was in Kobes) hands he stayed the hell out of Kobes way.

 

[gspieler]

I guess the same could be said about Gasol and Kobe as defenses were Kobe-oriented yet Kobe STILL got his.

Fyi, ever play basketball? How long you been watching? The last quarter and more importantly crunch time is where it's at. Go research some games back then, especially in the playoffs, with Kobe taking over at the end at a much higher usage rate than Snaq. I've posted in detail here on this over the years and shut up the Kobe haters with relative ease because of this.

All the stats are there and let me say that Snaq was dominant as fuck but unless he got a easy dink and dunk from Kobe at the end of the game (ball was in Kobes) hands he stayed the hell out of Kobes way.

I guess I'm just going to have to disagree that Kobe was overall the bigger asset to the team. I'm not disputing who was more pivotal to their success at ends of games. Nor am I attempting to minimize the significance of having a good closer. But IMO there is little doubt about who was more central to putting that squad into position to win in the first place. Relegating Shaq to second-fiddle status in that context, is an insult to Shaq. The guy dominated the majority of games, and opened up opportunities for his teammates in the process. At worst, they could be considered 1a and 1b.

 

[TheComebackKid]

I guess I'm just going to have to disagree that Kobe was overall the bigger asset to the team. I'm not disputing who was more pivotal to their success at ends of games. Nor am I attempting to minimize the significance of having a good closer. But IMO there is little doubt about who was more central to putting that squad into position to win in the first place. Relegating Shaq to second-fiddle status in that context, is an insult to Shaq. The guy dominated the majority of games, and opened up opportunities for his teammates in the process. At worst, they could be considered 1a and 1b.

Those Shaq & Kobe titles were partnerships much like Magic & Kareem. Magic gets full credit for being a 5 time champion and Kareem gets full credit for 6. Likewise Shaq gets full credit for 4 and Kobe gets full credit for 5.

 

[TheComebackKid]

Hakeem beat better teams in his championship years than Kobe did in his.

Barkley's Suns twice, arguably the best Knicks team ever with a prime Ewing, Malone & Stockton twice, an absolutely loaded Spurs team that everyone and their mom was picking to win the championship, a young Magic that was certainly on its way to being a dynasty.

That dismantling of league MVP David Robinson is unmatched

Kobe beat some good teams as well. The Duncan/Pop Spurs, the Nash/Stoudamire Suns, Durant/Westbrook/Harden Thunder, The Iverson/Carmelo Nuggets, and the Big 3 Celtics. The Rockets, Jazz, and Magic weren't great teams but were solid.

Then you can look at the teams he beat with Shaq: Blazers, Kings, Spurs, Timberwolves.

 

[Lord Commander Palis]

I guess I'm just going to have to disagree that Kobe was overall the bigger asset to the team. I'm not disputing who was more pivotal to their success at ends of games. Nor am I attempting to minimize the significance of having a good closer. But IMO there is little doubt about who was more central to putting that squad into position to win in the first place. Relegating Shaq to second-fiddle status in that context, is an insult to Shaq. The guy dominated the majority of games, and opened up opportunities for his teammates in the process. At worst, they could be considered 1a and 1b.

Theres a reason they are considered one of if not the best 1-2 punch in NBA history. At worst... 1a and 1b? Lol. Not at worst, as accurate.

Kobe 5

Shaq 4