Koko the gorilla could NOT use sign language.

Yeah OK man, you're a showman. I think what you're showing at the moment is your ass, but that's just my humble opinion. I hope you have many hearty laughs over your gorilla hit piece and have a great day.

yet i got people wanting to "punch me in the mouth". lol. people get so delusional and emotional over animals.
 
But not everyone was so impressed with the human-like Koko. As the documentary explains, after Patterson published her dissertation in 1979, behavioral scientists expressed skepticism of her language claims (Koko is now said to understand 2,000 words of spoken English and knows 1,000 signs). The most vocal critic was Herb Terrace, founder of the chimpanzee language experiment Project Nim, who published his doubts — claiming Koko was just mimicking her handler — in a 1982 paper in the New York Academy of Sciences titled “Why Koko Can’t Talk.”

https://nypost.com/2016/07/28/inside-the-world-of-the-gorilla-who-can-talk/

Can't find the article for free. If you can find it. Read it and post it.


j.2326-1951.1982.tb02120.x.fp.png
 
Does this have any relation to GSP's recent statement about an African gorilla? And has Woodley misunderstood any of this and become uncontrollably triggered?
 
Anyone that has had a pet knows they can understand language. I don't know why this is even debatable. No one is reaching and saying an ape or a dog is going to finish the last book of Game of Thrones.
If the ape wanted a banana, it signed that it wanted a banana. It knew the sign for "I would like a banana." How deep the understanding was can be questioned, and it was not human level, but we probably started the same way. I imagine our language developed through telling story-lies. The females liked this advancement, and bred with those telling them. A million years later, here we are..
It’s all part of language/communication. So is every day body language. How do you not see this?
You guy are conflating communication with language but they are not the same thing. Language is a sophisticated form of communication but not all communication is language. When you play charades you try to communicate an idea to your partner but that doesn't mean you're using language, in fact that's why its challenging.

Imagine if I could say English words but could not put them into a sentence. If I wanted water I would say "water" and then point to myself. Or if I didn't like something I would point to it and say "bad!" "no like!". Clearly I am speaking English words but am I speaking English?

@JonesBones is 100% right, ape sign language research is mostly bullshit and Koko and her handler are the worst offenders.

Jesus Christ dude are you having one of your "bad days" or what? What a weird thing to get bent out of shape over. Go take a long walk through the woods or something.
Its unscientific nonsense that has only spread because its a touching story people want to believe and the media perpetuates it. In and of itself its not that harmful but still a little annoying when you know the truth
 
You guy are conflating communication with language but they are not the same thing. Language is a sophisticated form of communication but not all communication is language. When you play charades you try to communicate an idea to your partner but that doesn't mean you're using language, in fact that's why its challenging.

Imagine if I could say English words but could not put them into a sentence. If I wanted water I would say "water" and then point to myself. Or if I didn't like something I would point to it and say "bad!" "no like!". Clearly I am speaking English words but am I speaking English?

@JonesBones is 100% right, ape sign language research is mostly bullshit and Koko and her handler are the worst offenders.


Its unscientific nonsense that has only spread because its a touching story people want to believe and the media perpetuates it. In and of itself its not that harmful but still a little annoying when you know the truth


You know, I watched a documentary on another chimp who supposedly learned sign language. Throughout the whole documentary the story line was pushing that narrative. But at the end the scientist had an epiphany. He was watching the chimp one day and it dawned on him. This chimp was nothing more than a "brilliant beggar" as he put it. I loved that honesty. He was objectively examining it till the end and came to the truth. That is how a scientist should operate.

watching that video you posted now

And apes are capable of abstract thought. What a gorilla can actually do with its mind is far more impressive than this mimic shit. Even rats can create cognitive maps and they proved


and lol at Nim Chimpsky.
 
Last edited:
I think the ape probably learned some basic sign language. The whole thing obviously wasn't a farse. It was using signs to represent things.. The understanding wasn't exactly The same as ours, but yeah.. Weird thread.

Not weird at all if you're familiar with OP's love of trolling
 
You know, I watched a documentary on another chimp who supposedly learned sign language. Throughout the whole documentary the story line was pushing that narrative. But at the end the scientist had an epiphany. He was watching the chimp one day and it dawned on him. This chimp was nothing more than a "brilliant beggar" as he put it. I loved that honesty. He was objectively examining it till the end and came to the truth.
I am glad you made this thread, ever since Koko has died it has sort of irked me that everyone claims she knew sign language. Call it something else like sign communication but don't call it language because its not.
 
I am glad you made this thread, ever since Koko has died it has sort of irked me that everyone claims she knew sign language. Call it something else like sign communication but don't call it language because its not.

Fits in the with the briliant beggar theory. It is the chinese room argument and the apes fail. Richard Feynman said he learned very early on the difference between knowing something and knowing the NAME of something. Oh shit, he almost uses the same example. Bird in water. lol. Awesome.

 
I just thought of a perfect analogy for this situation. A Ouija board. They are moving around the thing themselves and attribute it something else.
 
yet i got people wanting to "punch me in the mouth". lol. people get so delusional and emotional over animals.
No big deal man, you seem like a decent enough dude. You do go into "angry mode" from time to time and you seem to be kind of stuck there lately. Best wishes bro, it's all good.

Its unscientific nonsense that has only spread because its a touching story people want to believe and the media perpetuates it. In and of itself its not that harmful but still a little annoying when you know the truth
Sure calling it "sign language" is incorrect, I've always seen it as more of a system of meaningful gestures. It just seems more like an appropriate situation for a gentle rebuke than an condescending rant, I just don't get why it would irritate anyone so much. Call it whatever you want, I think it's pretty f'n cool that an ape could communicate like that. In an age where emojis pass for language and so many people who post on the internet can't put together a coherent paragraph I think the ape did pretty good.
 
No big deal man, you seem like a decent enough dude. You do go into "angry mode" from time to time and you seem to be kind of stuck there lately. Best wishes bro, it's all good.


Sure calling it "sign language" is incorrect, I've always seen it as more of a system of meaningful gestures. It just seems more like an appropriate situation for a gentle rebuke than an condescending rant, I just don't get why it would irritate anyone so much. Call it whatever you want, I think it's pretty f'n cool that an ape could communicate like that. In an age where emojis pass for language and so many people who post on the internet can't put together a coherent paragraph I think the ape did pretty good.

Do you know how irritated George Carlin gets just listening to airplane pilot calling himself a captain and pulling rank on him? lol. That is what comedy is made of. We hate people who try to be important.

 
No big deal man, you seem like a decent enough dude. You do go into "angry mode" from time to time and you seem to be kind of stuck there lately. Best wishes bro, it's all good.


Sure calling it "sign language" is incorrect, I've always seen it as more of a system of meaningful gestures. It just seems more like an appropriate situation for a gentle rebuke than an condescending rant, I just don't get why it would irritate anyone so much. Call it whatever you want, I think it's pretty f'n cool that an ape could communicate like that. In an age where emojis pass for language and so many people who post on the internet can't put together a coherent paragraph I think the ape did pretty good.
Actually the apes do rather poorly, often their "signs" have to be interpreted by their handlers who merely project what they think they see onto the ape. But yeah, @JonesBones gets fired up over the strangest things like apes and stocks.
 
Do you know how irritated George Carlin gets just listening to airplane pilot calling himself a captain and pulling rank on him? lol. That is what comedy is made of. We hate people who try to be important.


Yeah I'm definitely with you on that. Reminds me of the prank call where the dude calls a car dealership and insists on being addressed as "el Conquistador". Check it out if you haven't heard it.
 
Yeah I'm definitely with you on that. Reminds me of the prank call where the dude calls a car dealership and insists on being addressed as "el Conquistador". Check it out if you haven't heard it.


it is both funny and sad. gives an insight into human psychology.
 
It seems as if koko’s handlers tried to stretch her ability levels. The whole climate change thing had me skeptical. In spite of their bad choices, I think Koko brought to light the ability of apes to communicate with humans.
A scientist in this article claims that she was a dependent communicator. Like a baby or an elderly person. Thanks for bringing this to my attention.
http://www.latimes.com/science/sciencenow/la-sci-sn-koko-gorilla-dies-20180621-story.html
 
Let's not forget the real miracle of Koko: that she never tore anyone to pieces.
 
Back
Top