Koko the gorilla could NOT use sign language.

[Drain Bamage]

The media is still perpetuating this hoax now that this bag of fur has croaked. From CNN. Says this thing "mastered" sign language. Absolute nonsense.

(CNN)Koko, the gorilla who mastered sign language and showed the world what great apes can do, has died.

She died Tuesday in her sleep at age 46, The Gorilla Foundation said in a statement.
"Koko touched the lives of millions as an ambassador for all gorillas and an icon for interspecies communication and empathy," the release said. "She was beloved and will be deeply missed."

Good thread on this:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=65071

I mean, this "scientist" was the biggest fraud and had their mind made up. Ok, when cocoa, that is why I call it, says "nipple", she means "people" because they sound a like. Think of that. lol.

There is too much to really go into here so just read that thread. The "conversations" this hairbag had with humans are long and stupid. Make no sense unless the human post hoc adds an explanation. And the ape never used sign language. Not any recognizable kind but a supposed personal kind by this person and their trainer. And an ASL person who was there said they saw no signs where these "scientists" did. They made shit up.

not only that but she also killed that kitten they said got "Run over by a car"

it always pissed me off when they put the kittens in there, like wtf do they think is gonna happen

 

[Renard]

Gorillas attack their reflection in the mirror because they think it's another gorilla. They're dumb as rocks for sure. It tells more about humans that we're always looking for new animal friends we can communicate with, unfortunately all the other animals on this planet are idiots.

 

[koolinkunming]

Like they would hear it..

 

[Prefect]

You guy are conflating communication with language but they are not the same thing. Language is a sophisticated form of communication but not all communication is language. When you play charades you try to communicate an idea to your partner but that doesn't mean you're using language, in fact that's why its challenging.

Imagine if I could say English words but could not put them into a sentence. If I wanted water I would say "water" and then point to myself. Or if I didn't like something I would point to it and say "bad!" "no like!". Clearly I am speaking English words but am I speaking English?

@JonesBones is 100% right, ape sign language research is mostly bullshit and Koko and her handler are the worst offenders.


Its unscientific nonsense that has only spread because its a touching story people want to believe and the media perpetuates it. In and of itself its not that harmful but still a little annoying when you know the truth

Conflating communication with language?




Language is protocol. If the protocols are very basic, that doesn't make them no longer protocols.

 

[Islam Imamate]

Your response on Africa is nonsensical.

Par the course for him.

 

[Gref]

 

[Fawlty]

Most African dialects, a vast majority, did not have written language or in depth grammar.. We are talking about those.. Were those languages?

Show me the facts. Show me the expert analysis.

 

[Idonotbelieveit]

Smarter than some shawdogs

 

[Amerikuracana]

Show me the facts. Show me the expert analysis.

For PC reasons, it is not excessively Harper on. It's common knowledge that most tribes had no written language. COMMON KNOWLEDGE.

 

[Bob Gray]

Seems like kind of a semantical nitpick over "mastering" sign language, which is pretty hyperbolic to be sure. At the same time, I wager it's the news articles reporting the stories mentioning she mastered sign language as opposed to her handlers.

I'm a somewhat practiced ASL speaker, and even I can see that she uses certain signs appropriately. If the argument is she doesn't sign "right" or she hasn't actually mastered the language, I wouldn't disagree but I think that's missing the point of the discovery. The fact that a gorilla can use signs as a form of reliable communication is a pretty amazing development.

 

[Darkballs]

Who wakes up in the morning and thinks that this thread needs to be made?

 

[ShinkanPo]

The media is still perpetuating this hoax now that this bag of fur has croaked. From CNN. Says this thing "mastered" sign language. Absolute nonsense.

(CNN)Koko, the gorilla who mastered sign language and showed the world what great apes can do, has died.

She died Tuesday in her sleep at age 46, The Gorilla Foundation said in a statement.
"Koko touched the lives of millions as an ambassador for all gorillas and an icon for interspecies communication and empathy," the release said. "She was beloved and will be deeply missed."

Good thread on this:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=65071

I mean, this "scientist" was the biggest fraud and had their mind made up. Ok, when cocoa, that is why I call it, says "nipple", she means "people" because they sound a like. Think of that. lol.

There is too much to really go into here so just read that thread. The "conversations" this hairbag had with humans are long and stupid. Make no sense unless the human post hoc adds an explanation. And the ape never used sign language. Not any recognizable kind but a supposed personal kind by this person and their trainer. And an ASL person who was there said they saw no signs where these "scientists" did. They made shit up.

I made a similar thread last year, about Koko the gorilla,
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/koko-and-michael-the-gorilla.3661831/

The part that I got suspicious was when they said Koko morn for the loss of Robin Williams. I may believe Koko knows some basic sign languages but is Koko really that intelligent and advance that it will mourn for actor Robin Williams?

I understand Koko will mourn for her baby or her care taker or other staff at the reservation but Robin Williams? How often does Williams visit her?

 

[JonesBones]

I made a similar thread last year, about Koko the gorilla,
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/koko-and-michael-the-gorilla.3661831/

The part that I got suspicious was when they said Koko morn for the loss of Robin Williams. I may believe Koko knows some basic sign languages but is Koko really that intelligent and advance that it will mourn for actor Robin Williams?

I understand Koko will mourn for her baby or her care taker or other staff at the reservation but Robin Williams? How often does Williams visit her?

Everything Koko says is interpreted by her trainer. It is actually a form of cold reading that psychics do. They find something in bullshit and keep digging if they don't.

She doesn't give a fuck about Robin Williams. This gorilla also was against climate change and Trump. Seriously. lol.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/what-does-koko-know-about-climate-change-nothing/

 

[JonesBones]

I love how dismissive Chomsky is of this nonsense.

CUCCHIARO: You’ve been quoted as saying, ‘It’s about as likely that an ape will prove to have a language ability as there is an island somewhere with a species of flightless birds waiting for humans to teach them to fly.’ The book, Nim Chimpsky, remarks at the fact that Apes have been able to sign probably about as well as children first learning; the implication being that if we call what children do, ‘language,’ then why not have the same standard for apes and call what they do, ‘language’?

CHOMSKY: That’s about like saying that Olympic high jumpers fly better than young birds who’ve just come out of the egg — or than most chickens. These are not serious comparisons. For whatever reason, the study of human higher mental faculties is pervaded by a curious form of irrationality, foreign to the sciences.

 

[ShinkanPo]

For fuck's sake- there's conspiracy shit on a dead gorilla now? Conspiracy nut jobs are getting out of hand.

They are worried because they might let the Gorrilas vote next and then Dogs and Cats!

 

[KONG-D'SNT-TAP]

KOKO was a better WR poster than the TS

 

[Doughbelly]

no it isnt. this ape knew sign language or didnt. it mastered sign language or it didnt.

You have mastered punctuation and grammar or you haven’t.

 

[JonesBones]

This is pure fuckin cold reading:



Here's a transcript of an actual "conversation" with Koko live on a webcam.

Question: What are the names of your kittens? (and dogs?)

LiveKOKO: foot

Patterson: Foot isn't the name of your kitty

Question: Koko, what's the name of your cat?

LiveKOKO: no

Patterson: She just gave some vocalizations there... some soft puffing

[chat host]: I heard that soft puffing!

Patterson: Now shaking her head no.

Question: Do you like to chat with other people?

Koko: fine nipple

Patterson: Nipple rhymes with people, she doesn’t sign people per se, she was trying to do a ‘sounds like…’

 

[JonesBones]

Did these idiots ever think the reason she said nipple and itch so much is because she was actually itching herself or playing with her nipples? lol. my god. When a gorilla plays her with her nipples she is signing "people". Please.

 

[ShinkanPo]

You guy are conflating communication with language but they are not the same thing. Language is a sophisticated form of communication but not all communication is language. When you play charades you try to communicate an idea to your partner but that doesn't mean you're using language, in fact that's why its challenging.

Imagine if I could say English words but could not put them into a sentence. If I wanted water I would say "water" and then point to myself. Or if I didn't like something I would point to it and say "bad!" "no like!". Clearly I am speaking English words but am I speaking English?

@JonesBones is 100% right, ape sign language research is mostly bullshit and Koko and her handler are the worst offenders.


Its unscientific nonsense that has only spread because its a touching story people want to believe and the media perpetuates it. In and of itself its not that harmful but still a little annoying when you know the truth

When they said that the fucking Gorilla was sad when Robin Williams died that's when I totally got convinced its some fucking Hoax to get attention maybe some funding its a con.

Hey I love Gorillas and Robin Williams, I am all for conversation of Animal habitats and would gladly donate to help end pooching. But all this monkey business and perpetuating a Hoax is really bad and actually hurts the scientific community and the animal welfare cause.

Maybe they will say Koko died of heart break after watching all the Children of illegal immigrants in cages?