lack of triangles nogi at higherlevels

[tekkenfan]

i notice u dont really see triangle finishes at all after purple in no gi tourneys unless the guy has long lanky legs i say its due to guys passing so high today kinda sad really i love triangles and old school jiu jitsu but today everyone likes to stand and kinda forces you on bottom to work into those reverse de la riva leg lock scrambles which are good tecs but seems thats all guys do now on bottom i really hope this changes soon

i dont wana sound like a grand pa but the most fun matches were from 2005-2012 when guys were really trying hard to attack subs from guard and guys on top tried hard to pass like a baret yoshida style attacking guard

 

[winterbike]

Triangles from guard are high risk, if the guy is good at defending you'll often end up stacked and passed.

Triangles from mount and the back though: money.

 

[Quebec Nick]

Same goes for a lot of finishes from under that are not leglocks. You don't see a lot of kimuras, armbars, guillotine from the guard.

Also, we are in the leg lock era, it's a lot safer to go for leglocks then trying to choke or armbar in your guard, getting stacked and passed.

 

[tekkenfan]

Same goes for a lot of finishes from under that are not leglocks. You don't see a lot of kimuras, armbars, guillotine from the guard.

Also, we are in the leg lock era, it's a lot safer to go for leglocks then trying to choke or armbar in your guard, getting stacked and passed.

thats why i love watching brazilians today they still play traditional all aroud jiu jits the americans today try to damn hard to play into leg lock meta to where us ee blues trying to invert and doing all these fancy things and cant even hip escape properly

i love garry tonin cause he can leglock you but hes so strong everywhere else too good guard passing kimuras guillotines armlocks i just love to see guys on top trying to pass to dominant position falling back for leg locks is a bitch move i feel unless times running out and theres money on the line

 

[rmongler]

I mean, if you can stack a guy up, then get into saddle from there, i wouldn't call that going backwards at all.

 

[judoka loca]

Triangles from guard are high risk, if the guy is good at defending you'll often end up stacked and passed.

Triangles from mount and the back though: money.

True, however triangle from rubber guard is legit. And getting into the "triangle trap" position provides you with not only the triangle but the armbar, wristlock, reverse armbar, and ompolata.

 

[spiderguarda]

Saw a preview clip of John Danaher’s flying or jumping triangle to a seated opponent. He favors a parallel leg positioning which I suspect is to trap the neck and shoulder. I’m curious of this next installment. I’m impressed especially. Y how Gordon even uses Danaher’s terminology and really does apply the systems Danaher teaches. Danaher and Gordon both acknowledge they’re not drones but they do add or modify Danaher’s system and that Danaher has systems but wants to teach his student to problem solve. I don’t get the hate on Danaher. He genuinely appears to want his students not only to do well but invent and go on to improve on his systems.

 

[BJJ_Rage]

Triangles from guard are high risk, if the guy is good at defending you'll often end up stacked and passed.

Triangles from mount and the back though: money.

they are not risky, you mean trying to shoot up a triangle coul be risky, if you got the figure 4 lock and you are good at them, its 90-10 in favor of the tringler, not the defener.

 

[BJJ_Rage]

thats why i love watching brazilians today they still play traditional all aroud jiu jits the americans today try to damn hard to play into leg lock meta to where us ee blues trying to invert and doing all these fancy things and cant even hip escape properly

i love garry tonin cause he can leglock you but hes so strong everywhere else too good guard passing kimuras guillotines armlocks i just love to see guys on top trying to pass to dominant position falling back for leg locks is a bitch move i feel unless times running out and theres money on the line

that is mostly due to most brazilians almost always competitng under ibjjf rules, americans doing no gi are coming up with adcc ebi or whatever rules is not ibjjf

 

[EndlessCritic]

All about 'dem fancy triangles.

 

[nefti]

imho it has more to do with modern passing styles favoring standing guard breaks.

 

[Bubblun]

I don't think that the triangle doesn't work at high level, but the closed guard is dead, not because it isn't effective, quite the opposite, it is so advantageous in a grappling scenario that every competitor try to avoid it like the plague, so you don't see many submissions from the closed guard either.

Think about it, there isn't a single reason to be in the closed guard for the top in a jiu jitsu or submission wrestling competition, the only thing you can do is open the guard and try to advance.

 

[tekkenfan]

that is mostly due to most brazilians almost always competitng under ibjjf rules, americans doing no gi are coming up with adcc ebi or whatever rules is not ibjjf

i useto hate on ibjjf due to single leg x being so dangerous t play if the guy wants to be a asshole and make his leg reap and get you dqed but least they are playing the whole game


yes dem fancy triangles in 2009 before berinbolos were there and leg locks were in the game notice the open guard meta wasnt even there guys didnt even play reverse de la riva then i remember reverse got big around 2011

also ryan hit that triangle from mount not bottom

 

[tekkenfan]

I don't think that the triangle doesn't work at high level, but the closed guard is dead, not because it isn't effective, quite the opposite, it is so advantageous in a grappling scenario that every competitor try to avoid it like the plague, so you don't see many submissions from the closed guard either.

Think about it, there isn't a single reason to be in the closed guard for the top in a jiu jitsu or submission wrestling competition, the only thing you can do is open the guard and try to advance.

i think that depends on the weight division too like at lighter weight classes guys have much better hip movement for years guys stopped playing closed cause guys had such good base at higher levels and posture that they couldnt get things to work thats why open guards got popular

 

[mataleaos]

Saw a preview clip of John Danaher’s flying or jumping triangle to a seated opponent. He favors a parallel leg positioning which I suspect is to trap the neck and shoulder. I’m curious of this next installment. I’m impressed especially. Y how Gordon even uses Danaher’s terminology and really does apply the systems Danaher teaches. Danaher and Gordon both acknowledge they’re not drones but they do add or modify Danaher’s system and that Danaher has systems but wants to teach his student to problem solve. I don’t get the hate on Danaher. He genuinely appears to want his students not only to do well but invent and go on to improve on his systems.

I agree although I would also say that Gordon more than anyone one else under Danaher or Renzo follows Danaher's system exactly as is to a T. He seems to modify it less than others and implements it almost as is.

I'm curious about the triangle set as well. Any hate on Danaher also I think likely is just how he comes across on social media or how he speaks at times. I haven't seen anyone really dislike the quality of his actual instructionals.

 

[mataleaos]

I don't think that the triangle doesn't work at high level, but the closed guard is dead, not because it isn't effective, quite the opposite, it is so advantageous in a grappling scenario that every competitor try to avoid it like the plague, so you don't see many submissions from the closed guard either.

Think about it, there isn't a single reason to be in the closed guard for the top in a jiu jitsu or submission wrestling competition, the only thing you can do is open the guard and try to advance.

This right here. When Lovato Jr was able to get closed guard at ADCC (either 2013 or 2015) he got two triangles. Xande got 3 armbars from closed guard at ADCC last year and I suspect had Xande preferred the triangle over the armbar that he likely would have been able to get those instead. Getting to closed guard was the big deal breaker there.

Anytime I've been to a world class academy and rolled with world champion type people I have not once been able to secure closed guard on any of them.

Nicky Ryan and Ethan Crelinsten are currently able to get triangles from various guards. Even if triangles aren't in fashion at the moment, people that focus on them are able to get results. That's the case with most solid and foundational techniques. Keenan Cornelius always gets a lot of triangles gi or no gi and Craig Jones gets a lot of triangles from z-guard as well.

Not to mention closed guard are hardly the only types of triangles out there. Reverse triangles and inverted triangles (especially from back control and kimura grips) are both very prevalent at the moment.

Edit: it's also worth noting that many of the well known triangle chokers in BJJ are retired or not as active as they used to be (Braulio and Victor Estima, Terere, Rafa Mendes, Jeff Glover, Bill Cooper, Robert Drysdale, Ryan Hall)