Legal Employment Discrimination by Race

I don't think you're seeing the fallacy here. You're making clear that you would watch while stating that people who are even less invested in the specifics of the character wouldn't watch it. See my above laughing figure.
No im totally following your argument I just think opposite. Hardcore fans would entertain the idea breifly but the general population not so much. Pretty simple, your argument isn't really complex at all you just have an issue with disagreement it seems.

Sure it does. That's the point of something being fiction, that it can be easily changed.

Not unless you want to ruin the franchise I'm afraid.

So...still Scottish then.
Not ethnically Scottish, no.

And Bond hasn't been the same since he was created. You literally mentioned a reboot that fiddled with his backstory while claiming that the character remains unchanged. ??

When Flemming creates Bond he was modelled after himself and a singer from that time. When Connery was cast as Bond he changed the story so that he would be an ethnic Scott. The look of Bond has been the same until Craig was cast. The writer himself set the bar and then Connery raised it a little. So the story has changed according to the creators wishes but not really the look.

No one cared. Name one element of the Bond movies that cannot be put on screen if Bond ceased to be white.

No one is claiming it cannot be put on screen. The I'm claiming it would cease to be Bond.

Nope, couldn't care care less what race he is. I just make a point of highlighting the absurdity of insisting that a fictional character with a fictional history cannot have his/her fictional race changed. Especially one where the race of the character plays no role in the actual stories being told.
The franchise is dependent on the character we all know and love and he's white. The look we associate him with will be ruined if we dramatically change his appearance.
 
No im totally following your argument I just think opposite. Hardcore fans would entertain the idea breifly but the general population not so much. Pretty simple, your argument isn't really complex at all you just have an issue with disagreement it seems.

It's not an issue with disagreement, I've stated the point very clearly. I even presented you with a question to that point and you answered in agreement with myself. Here was the question: Would you stop watching Bond movies if the character was black? You stated that not only would you still watch a black bond, you would watch a Greek one too.

You then argue that other people would not do what you would do because they actually care even less about the characters.

Surely you see the flaw in an argument that says that people who care less than you will actually care more than you when making their decision about something?

Not unless you want to ruin the franchise I'm afraid.
It's not ruined if you continue to go see it.


Not ethnically Scottish, no.

So...still Scottish then. Adding "ethnically" doesn't change anything, it's as empty a semantical point as you can muster. But to satisfy you, let's just say black Bond had an ethnically Scottish great-grandfather.


When Flemming creates Bond he was modelled after himself and a singer from that time. When Connery was cast as Bond he changed the story so that he would be an ethnic Scott. The look of Bond has been the same until Craig was cast. The writer himself set the bar and then Connery raised it a little. So the story has changed according to the creators wishes but not really the look.

Again, fictional character created by dead guy who no longer owns that rights to that character. They already changed the look, as you noted. o_O

Your argument is full of contradictions. Craig changed the look. The reboot changed the backstory to some degree. They have made movies for which there are no books, including one involving that blond guy who doesn't look like Fleming's Bond.

Nothing about Bond has escaped change.


No one is claiming it cannot be put on screen. The I'm claiming it would cease to be Bond.

I'm pointing out that a fictional character cannot cease to be a fictional character just because some people get deep in their feels when things change.

The Human Torch did not cease being the Human Torch just because he was played by a black guy in a movie. The Last Airbender did not cease to be the Last Airbender because the cast became white.


The franchise is dependent on the character we all know and love and he's white. The look we associate him with will be ruined if we dramatically change his appearance.

So making him black "ruins" him? How dare you!?!?!?!

Kidding.

The look you associate him with would change. But for people who are new to the character, they would never know a different look. Fast forward 50 years and they would start complaining if society tried to turn him back to white.

Which is really the problem with arguments like yours, that people seem to forget that these fictional characters aren't theirs. Every generation is free to reinvent them as they wish. But as one generation grows old and static in their way of thinking, they fight against the next generation putting their own stamp on things.
 
The people who want a black james bond panamaican are not doing so just to freshen up the character. If you are arguing against the people who want to keep james bond scottish white then you have to ask why exactly is a black james bond so important to the other side ????

I feel liberals often white knight when the people they are supposedly supporting are usually no different.

For.some strange reason they cant grasp this concept. The difference being james bond is already an established character.

For the record i dont even like the bod movies.
 
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The people who want a black james bond panamaican are not doing so just to freshen up the character. If you are arguing against the people who want to keep james bond scottish white then you have to ask why exactly is a black james bond so important to the other side ????

I feel liberals often white knight when the people they are supposedly supporting are usually no different.

For.some strange reason they cant grasp this concept.

Oh I don't particularly care about why anyone wants a black or a white Bond. I find the argument that a fictional character cannot change to be an absurd one. My argument would be the same if they were changing Batman into a woman with the same general backstory. It's a fictional character, nothing about it is set in stone.
 
The slow extinction of the Caucasian is a sad pathetic thing to witness. But your replacements will make fine use of all you leave behind.

Probably how the natives and colors felt too when the Caucasion invaded lol.
 
Oh I don't particularly care about why anyone wants a black or a white Bond. I find the argument that a fictional character cannot change to be an absurd one. My argument would be the same if they were changing Batman into a woman with the same general backstory. It's a fictional character, nothing about it is set in stone.

Absoultely fictional characters can be changed and they do but its the reasons for changing that need to be questioned. Whats the point of changing batman to batwomen...
 
The white genocide agenda isn't so subtle anymore.
 
i think if a private company wants to hire all white, black, asian, male, female -- they should be able to do so as much as they want.

government should not be able to discriminate based on race or gender. But quotas should not be implemented to reflect diversity.
I don't know about employment. I do my boss who is a landlord, has to make sure he rents to enough blacks or he can get in trouble. He's had a lot of trouble renting to black people on section 8. Now he fills his quota with older black ladies. Anyone who calls him sounding ghetto, gets instantly rejected.
 
Fictional character. Meaning he's not real. Well established or not, there is no historical account which must be adhered to.

And neither is Shaft. They could make a white Shaft and it would certainly be hard to adhere to the other elements of the character but it's doable. And they could make a black James Bond, whether or not it's a stupid business decision depends on how much the story of a MI-6 secret agent is dependent on that agent's actual race.

It's almost like you guys have never seen Hollywood reboot a franchise before, lol.

Are you saying that if they rolled out a James Bond movie that was identical to previous films in every fashion, except the race of the actor, you would refuse to see it purely on the racial change?

Dude yes. You would watch superman if they made him Chinese?
 
Here was the question: Would you stop watching Bond movies if the character was black? You stated that not only would you still watch a black bond, you would watch a Greek one too.
I see where you went wrong.You are making a sweeping generalization based off of someone who is a hardcore fan and applying it to the masses. You need to understand that im a hardcore Bond fan and although i don't like the direction it would be going in by changing the look dramatically i still would see it just to say i did. That in no way implies it still isn't a stupid choice OR that the masses will still want to see it either. You honestly think it wont take a massive hit if they did that? Either you are being willfully obtuse or you genuinely believe that but either way.......Not sure what to tell you. I would watch a Greek Bond for the novelty, not to cozy up to some form of familiarity.

Surely you see the flaw in an argument that says that people who care less than you will actually care more than you when making their decision about something?
Im saying that for people who arent die hard fans the "look" is all it would take to discourage them from the film. Of course people are still going to see it just not as much.

So...still Scottish then. Adding "ethnically" doesn't change anything, it's as empty a semantical point as you can muster. But to satisfy you, let's just say black Bond had an ethnically Scottish great-grandfather.
Ok how should i rephrase this so you can fully absorb it's meaning......people with Scottish ancestors are white?

Again, fictional character created by dead guy who no longer owns that rights to that character. They already changed the look, as you noted. o_O

Your argument is full of contradictions. Craig changed the look. The reboot changed the backstory to some degree. They have made movies for which there are no books, including one involving that blond guy who doesn't look like Fleming's Bond.

Nothing about Bond has escaped change.
Yes and the direction they went towards was met with crazy ammounts of criticism because of his fair qualities (imagine a Greek Bond) and also a storyline that put the whole "BOND" being a designation rather than an individual narrative to rest. If anything the reboot reaffirms what Flemming wanted for his character all along which was to make him an ethnic (WHITE) Scottish person. You can go on and on about who owns the rights but they have made their decision clear and for some reason you cannot grasp that concept. Also if you are asking me, i don't like a blonde Bond and besides Casino Royale (and maybe skyfall) i could care less for Craig. His time is up.

The Human Torch did not cease being the Human Torch just because he was played by a black guy in a movie. The Last Airbender did not cease to be the Last Airbender because the cast became white.

Bond is the defining element of the franchise and he just so happens to be an amalgamation of people in terms of personality as well as his physical appearance. Flemming had a winning formula and they stuck with it as casino royale proved. The reboot is actually an attempt to get closer to the Bond Flemming had in mind minus some slight alterations. The character in this case makes the films and the stories, it isn't the other way around. The human torch on the other hand isn't allotted the same complexities and for that reason no one gives a flying fuck what color he is........but if we are using the fantastic 4 movies as any metric.......well they sucked balls.

The look you associate him with would change. But for people who are new to the character, they would never know a different look. Fast forward 50 years and they would start complaining if society tried to turn him back to white.

People who are new to him know him as white, people who have known him know him as white. Remind us all of the point in changing him into anything other than that?


Which is really the problem with arguments like yours, that people seem to forget that these fictional characters aren't theirs. Every generation is free to reinvent them as they wish. But as one generation grows old and static in their way of thinking, they fight against the next generation putting their own stamp on things.

And this is the problem with arguments like yours. It's not mine or yours, this generation or the next it's the writer who created him and the formula that has always worked which it belongs to. What makes Bond special is every little detail about who he is as the writer intended it to be. No one is saying the story cannot change and as a result the character either but what makes BOND special is how Flemming portrayed him, get too far away from the original Bond and it ceases to be Bond and the public knows this and its reflective in the reviews. Roger Moore was a cartoonish Bond which contrasts the hardcore, emotionless killing machine he is supposed to be as Flemming intended, Craig never redefined the role he simply resumed it. The look is what we associate Bond with and at this point he is a brand. To wildly change that would be suicide.

But as one generation grows old and static in their way of thinking, they fight against the next generation putting their own stamp on things.
Making Bond black or Greek is not the next generation putting their stamp on things. That's just stupid.
 
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My only criteria for recruiting is inappropriate and offensive forehead tattoos.

christopherwilson17.jpg
 
If anyone in the UK or CAN catches an update on these cases, drop us a line in-thread, please.


Another thought; If they retract the provision, then go ahead and hire someone non-white, haven't they just set themselves up for another lawsuit from qualified applicants they rejected?


The whole thing has me looking at Affirmative Action-type policies again. 56 years later, and it looks like nothing really accomplished.
 
It's one thing to try and recruit more ethnic minorities and women into the police but totally another to refuse someone else entry based on skin colour. We have anti discrimination laws in UK and they apply to all races. Never heard of anything like this before and I expect in court it would be deemed as illegal.
Pretty sure they've done it in the UK with recruiting firemen.

I've only seen White firemen here.
 
The actors portraying bond have been Scottish, Irish, Welsh, English and Australian.

Get the fuck out with this Scottish Bond Bullshit. If bond can be blonde, he can be a Brittish born black man.
 
Can you fuckers stop shitting up the thread with bond talk and stay on subject?
 
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