Legal vs illegal in a nutshell

[ocean size]

Even by the numbers your 70% still 10 million whom aren't and I assure you that 70% is more like 40-50 maybe. Also now you have these illegals viting in your elections having no business doing so

bruv learn to post. Don't make three one sentence posts in a row as your brain slowly lights up with new zingers. Oh and it is companies, not company's when it is plural.

 

[helltoupee]

Company can bid cheaper, pay the workers even less, and still get the contract, and still pocket more for themselves if they bid higher, pay workers more, and risk not getting the contract. Plus they now likely get repeat business since they cheaper.

As for their work sucking, well, there is still a market for cheap poorly made goods. People do buy low end stuff that wont last long. Why? I dont know, but they still do it.

Who is the entity facilitating everything you mention? The employee or the employer? I replied to a post that stated illegal immigrants cut corners and implied they do shoddy work. If that's the case, then that falls on the guy who hired them, and continues to use them.

Americans want to have their cake and eat it too. They want cheap goods, then they bitch at the people (illegal labor) that subsidizes costs for them.

 

[MadSquabbles500]

Who is the entity facilitating everything you mention? The employee or the employer? I replied to a post that stated illegal immigrants cut corners and implied they do shoddy work. If that's the case, then that falls on the guy who hired them, and continues to use them.

Americans want to have their cake and eat it too. They want cheap goods, then they bitch at the people (illegal labor) that subsidizes it for them.

Oh I dont know, I just trying to explain what the benefit is to the employer if he go this route.

 

[panamaican]

What be the benefit for Jose to get a fake SSN, or ITID? Is it so Jose can buy a house, or get drivers license to buy car or to get license to start business or something?

When they say fake SSN, do they mean someone else, or a number no one is suppose to have? If they stole someone elses, then why pay taxes for it? Someone likely already paid the taxes for that SSN. They should steal of the SSN of some rich surgeon.

Well anyways, they are revealing themselves or leaving a paper trail. If we ever do crack down on Illegals in this country, it is very dangerous thing they are doing.

It's because the employer needs one before they'll hire them. Why? Taxes.

See, if the employer doesn't report the income he pays to the illegal then it stays on the books as profits and the employer has to pay taxes on it. The employer doesn't want to do this because not only is he out the money he paid as salary, he's out the taxes on the salary that he's paying at the corporate rate. A $25k salary to an illegal is costing the employer $30k before state taxes. A $5k hit per illegal. So, the employer wants a SSN so that they can properly write off the salaries as a business expense. Illegals that want jobs need to get SSN's.

There are very few jobs where the employer can write off a year's worth of illegal salary without drawing attention to themselves. Ever fewer where you can do it with more than 1-2 illegal salaries.

 

[M3t4tr0n]

Not only is ts racist, he stole almost his entire OP from someone else. His math and tax angle also got btfo on the first page. That's what you get from a poster named "Maga". Sad!

 

[MadSquabbles500]

It's because the employer needs one before they'll hire them. Why? Taxes.

See, if the employer doesn't report the income he pays to the illegal then it stays on the books as profits and the employer has to pay taxes on it. The employer doesn't want to do this because not only is he out the money he paid as salary, he's out the taxes on the salary that he's paying at the corporate rate. A $25k salary to an illegal is costing the employer $30k before state taxes. A $5k hit per illegal. So, the employer wants a SSN so that they can properly write off the salaries as a business expense. Illegals that want jobs need to get SSN's.

There are very few jobs where the employer can write off a year's worth of illegal salary without drawing attention to themselves. Ever fewer where you can do it with more than 1-2 illegal salaries.

What if they not on payroll, and get paid cash?

 

[panamaican]

What if they not on payroll, and get paid cash?

That's the point. This scenario occurs when they're not on payroll. Company X makes $100k gross revenue. Jose is paid $25k. If Jose is paid off payroll then Company X has to report $100k as profit and pay taxes on $100k, approximately $21k currently. If Jose is paid on payroll then Company X only reports $75k as profit for tax purposes, approximately $15.75k in taxes.

Off payroll, Company X takes home $54k (100-25-21). On payroll, Company X takes home $59.25k (100-25-15.75). Paying off payroll costs Company X $5k.

That number goes up, the higher the salary. It goes up the more illegals who are working off payroll.

And they can't Independent Contractor them because any total annual pay over $7k requires a federal tax filing. Could you break it down to small sub-reportable figures? Of course but then the IRS and you local state agency will start asking you to explain why you paid out $25k in compensation year after year in such small amounts. They're not stupid.

So, SSN's protect the employer from taxes and excess scrutiny.

 

[Fugazy]

Answer the question. How uninformed are you? Do you think employers are able to pay wages under the table without immediately triggering reporting mechanisms that tell the government? You think one construction company can pay zero payroll taxes, while their competitors are paying payroll taxes for tens or hundreds of workers, and no one would notice?

Anyways, this would be a worthwhile read for you:
https://bipartisanpolicy.org/blog/how-do-undocumented-immigrants-pay-federal-taxes-an-explainer/

I know an owner of a Piggly Wiggly (massive grocery chain) who also owns a couple other businessess.

One of his staff who is illegal works under a fake name, he punches a clock and gets a regular paycheck. Of course taxes are taken from that check.

This owner, a middle aged Italian from the midwest actually learned Spanish so it would be easier for him to find this kind of labor. He actively sought to employ illegals.

Here is where it gets interesting.

We will call this employee "Pete". That's not his real name, but anyways, Pete is a nice enough guy, I knew him for a few years.

Pete also stays after his shift ends in his department and does maintenance off the clock for the owner. He punches out at his scheduled time, and works an additional 20-30 hours a week. I've seen it firsthand, and I've talked to the owner and Pete about it. For this extra 80-100 hours a month, the owner gives Pete an extra $100 a month in cash. No, I'm not kidding. About $1/hour.

So what does Pete do for those extra hours? A few things, store maintenance, cleaning and minor repairs. Now if he didn't do that, the owner would have to hire another employee (or 2) for the maintenance department. He also would do maintenance on our delivery vehicles, plumbing repairs, work on our HVAC system, and he specialized in eletrical repairs. So if any fixtures or store equipment were malfunctioning, he would take the equipment to the loading dock and attempt to repair it, or stay after the store closed and attempt to repair whatever it was.

Wasn't a problem for him because he was an electrician in Mexico and he liked the extra cash to add to what he would send home to his wife and kids in Mexico.

Let's just say that one of the three-ish repairs that Pete made in a month would have required a call to a licensed refrigeration/HVAC/plumbing/electrical specialist. That's a whole lot money and work kept out of the hands of honest tradesmen.

Whether you like it or not, businesses large and small, left and right find ways to pay illegals under the table. It saves them lots of money, supressess wages and takes jobs from everyone else.

Feel free to tell me I'm making this up or ignore/minimize this post altogether.

 

[Fugazy]

How does Joe Illegal get free health care?
How can he drive without car insurance?
Does he even have a driver’s license or a valid ID?
What if he gets pulled over by the police?

DanaWhiteIllegal.gif?

Free healthcare clinics. Go to any large city and you'll find them. Super common in poor areas, ghettos, areas with lots of illegals. Free for them, not for taxpayers.

Also, go to hospital, do not pay bill. And depending on the state, there are insurance programs based on income that do not verify immigration status.

Also, how does anyone drive without a license or insurance? Get in car, turn key.

 

[MadSquabbles500]

That's the point. This scenario occurs when they're not on payroll. Company X makes $100k gross revenue. Jose is paid $25k. If Jose is paid off payroll then Company X has to report $100k as profit and pay taxes on $100k, approximately $21k currently. If Jose is paid on payroll then Company X only reports $75k as profit for tax purposes, approximately $15.75k in taxes.

Off payroll, Company X takes home $54k (100-25-21). On payroll, Company X takes home $59.25k (100-25-15.75). Paying off payroll costs Company X $5k.

That number goes up, the higher the salary. It goes up the more illegals who are working off payroll.

And they can't Independent Contractor them because any total annual pay over $7k requires a federal tax filing. Could you break it down to small sub-reportable figures? Of course but then the IRS and you local state agency will start asking you to explain why you paid out $25k in compensation year after year in such small amounts. They're not stupid.

So, SSN's protect the employer from taxes and excess scrutiny.

I believe there will be some kind of combination of lesser payroll, and or higher gross revenue, either or, that will work in your favor. But if you really only gross $100K/yr, maybe you should just only hire your wife as a secretary and that is it. $25K is a bit much for you to take on.

Or like in your scenario, pay Jose even less, pay yourself more, put some family on payroll. That way, you pay taxes on $25K payroll, but you and your family are banking more. Yes, then your income gets taxed, but I am sure there is certain combination of numbers to maximize the $100K gross revenue to $25K for yourself.

Or you pay Jose cash from your own personal bank account. That is money already taxed. And you just dont pay Jose a lot. Like lets say you do bathroom renovations. That is someone I think make about $100K gross revenue a year.

You really only need help carrying tile, glue, wonderboard, tools, and debris up and down stairs. You use a different illegal every job, or just put them on a rotation. You only need one, and can pay him like $30-$50/day (depends on the area). You dont pay workman comp, medical, or unemployment insurance tax etc, etc on them. When you have no jobs or smaller job, you dont pay them anything.

 

[Fugazy]

Being mad at the little people trying to make their situation better and not at the powerful people who profit either way is stupid and a waste of everyones time.

Why not both?

They know exactly what they are doing and have no allegiance to this country. Mexicans especially tend to be super racist. They hate white people, black people, Puerto Ricans. They think taxpayers are idiots and see the US as their piggybank. They don't try to make this country better, they just run to where they can get labor and social welfare. If Mexico bordered any other 1st world country they would see the same issues and attitudes.

 

[Grenz]

I have watched our construction industry be over run with low wage illegals that put law abiding company's outta business because they can't compete while sticking with American citizens at a decent wage. The illegals Will work 15 he days for 100 bucks a day finishing concrete which is a $30 per hr craft in the states.

But wait a minute, isn't one of the pillars of your OP that illegals make $15/hr? Working 15 hours for $100 means he's making $6.67 per hour. It's almost like you're just making things up to fit your story, but someone who hasn't listed one source besides "Trust me bros, I'm an industry insider, this info is legit" would never do such a thing.

 

[MadSquabbles500]

Wasn't a problem for him because he was an electrician in Mexico and he liked the extra cash to to add to what he would send home to his wife and kids in Mexico.

Does skilled tradesmen in construction not make good money in Mexico, enough to keep from coming to the states and be treated like crap? Tell Pete to go to coastal NC. They going to need lots of repairs now.

 

[Maga]

But wait a minute, isn't one of the pillars of your OP that illegals make $15/hr? Working 15 hours for $100 means he's making $6.67 per hour. It's almost like you're just making things up to fit your story, but someone who hasn't listed one source besides "Trust me bros, I'm an industry insider, this info is legit" would never do such a thing.

 

[all caps]

Why not both?

They know exactly what they are doing and have no allegiance to this country. Mexicans especially tend to be super racist. They hate white people, black people, Puerto Ricans. They think taxpayers are idiots and see the US as their piggybank. They don't try to make this country better, they just run to where they can get labor and social welfare. If Mexico bordered any other 1st world country they would see the same issues and attitudes.

The only person who loses is you, if you decide you hate the people who take advantage of their situation. You're the one who gets to walk around pissed off all day at the little brown guy. You're the one who loses out on potential friends and allies. You're the one putting yourself in danger by creating enemies with some brown people. Not the politicians.

 

[Fugazy]

The only person who loses is you, if you decide you hate the people who take advantage of their situation. You're the one who gets to walk around pissed off all day at the little brown guy. You're the one who loses out on potential friends and allies. You're the one putting yourself in danger by creating enemies with some brown people. Not the politicians.

I don't hate them per-say. I hate what they are doing and hope a solution can be found. I also realize that as much as I hate what they do, they are human.

Believe me, they aren't taking any of my time outside of Sherdog.

 

[Ortegoat]

Here's the Real Story that happens 99% of the time

Joe Legal loses his job because he wasn't good at it, goes to look for a new job...$10.5k in bank.

Jose illegal has just entered America and has already gotten a job at the Local Strawberry fields....He has to pay $10k to cross the border(Loaned by family) and $500 for a fake Social stolen from a death person....10.5k in debt.

Joe Legal continues to get unemployment, continues to look for jobs, but isn't getting any.....He is more and more in the house, seeing news...He's see an Oranage ConMan in the screen blaming illegals...he automatically believes him......$8K in bank (Is mispending money like crazy).

Jose Illegal stays in this job and continues to work...60 hours a week...Slowly he is paying his debt off to his family, while sending money back home, and spending money on a new privileged American life.....Because he gets paid by paycheck, $ is taking off for federal/state taxes....sadly for Jose, he will never reap the benefits for Social Security/medicare/etc because he is illegal thus he is pumping money to programs that will never help him.....$8k in debt.

Joe Legal is growing more and more mad.....But luckily his friend found him a job @ Jose illegal's job, the Local strawberry fields which pays $2 above minimum wage......Joe Legal reluctantly takes the job.....The job is really hard for him, he simply can't handle it...Quits that day....$4k(Has been mispending like crazy)

Jose Illegal stays in the same job and continues to work......60 hours a week still.......His debt is down to 1k.

Joe Legal eventually goes bankrupt and blames illegals.

Jose Illegal eventually marries a white girl and experiences racism from whites.

White women are the best bro. Goood choice

 

[Leagon]

I know this isn't PC to say, so keep all your little snowflake tears away from me, but here's a hard truth for you soyboy cucks:

If you've been in America for several generations and your best employment prospect is a low wage manual labor job, then you're a fuckin loser and you're not cut out to live in the GOAT country. Go live in some shithole where the competition is easier. We'd rather have the motherfucker who trudged across hundreds of miles of desert wasteland to cross a border and work 80 hours a week for a decade just to give his kids a chance at a better life. If you're not willing or able to outcompete that guy, we don't want you.

 

[all caps]

We'd rather have the motherfucker who trudged across hundreds of miles of desert wasteland to cross a border and work 80 hours a week for a decade just to give his kids a chance at a better life. If you're not willing or able to outcompete that guy, we don't want you.

Quoted for MOTHER FUCKIN TRUTH

 

[Brazilian HKD]

After serving as a social worker that catered for illegal immigrants, all I want is distance from illegal immigrants. I even considered working for ICE. Things I saw.
- Rampant fraud. Stolen SSN, fake driver Ids, craiglist scams, sexual trafficking. Mobsters and gangsters using the fact that they hide in their " communities" and speak a foreign language to try to get away with these things. A Brazilian BBQ I know got all the money they wanted from the business, and when profits started to low down, they just ran away back to Brazil on one night. They didn't pay the taxes, nor the rest of the money they owned the bank.


- Odd statistics. When people say that illegals tend to be less prone to crime. i have no idea how in the world you can measure even how many illegals we have. They are really hard to track and if they dont have ids, all they need to do is to lie.

- The ones who really benefit from this are the ones who are rich. I met many illegals that also became friends. They are the ones who fixthe houses ,prepare the gardens, paint the buildings Pf fancy limousine liberals. One of them told me that the ones who were really pissed at them were black people. Honestly now I understand why the Black community would be so mad at them. If they try to work honestly they get screwed by a bunch of folks that dont even speak english and get paid less.

Since I immigrated here I came to realize that immigrants here are nothing like immigrants in Countries like Brazil. Specially a lot of illegals dont come here to stay. They come here to get money and run away with it. By any means necessary. After all if they are willing to pay a human trafficker coyote knowing that the money goes to the mexican gangs who rape, mutilate and torture, why would they start acting ethically afterwards? They have nothing to lose.

I used to be very open minded about the issue. Now I am vehemently against it.